Diagnosis help ~TC's~ 3.0 V6 (93 runner) radiator overheats and dies
07-13-2009, 10:22 AM
#1
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Diagnosis help ~TC's~ 3.0 V6 (93 runner) radiator overheats and dies
Ok so last week here is what happened (I am going to summarize my info from our discussion on CoTTORA http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136045 )
From Troy: OK, I don't know much about how to diagnose anything, and I can't afford to swap parts all over right now.
Coming home from work, I hear a hissing sound, then shortly thereafter I see steam out of the hood and the temp gage at max, pull over and shut it down. Hear coolant bubbling and there's coolant all over the front driver's side quadrant of the engine bay - not much anywhere else.
Call Molly and have her bring coolant, fill it up, start motor, quite a bit of coolant burps out. Call AAA and have the truck towed home.
Get it in the driveway pointed uphill, fill it up some more, start the engine with the heat on full blast. A little bubbling goes away pretty quickly. Put the radiator cap on. The heat never gets hot, but the temp gage climbs. Engine dies when you let off the throttle, and can hear bubbling in the radiator. No smoke out the tailpipe. No external coolant leaks.
Where to go from here?
********
So here is what we did yesterday:
Then this happened:
So for the record... don't try and start the engine (to check for pressurization) without putting the fan back on. Yeah we forgot the fan holds those two pulley's in place behind it. (I think we were just excited to try it out!) I started it and pulley's went a-flyin! (I killed it and we rounded them up) But with that damned 3.0 as you all know everything is so freaking tight in there. So we had to release tension on the alternator pulley and then the power steering pump pulley then get the belts back on, get the fan back on and tighten the tension on all the pulley's again! What a PITA!
Ok so Troy did get the power steering (low pressure line) hooked up to the radiator (so now the ATF fluid in it is cooled), which is good because we seem to go through a re-manned pump about once a year.
We then started Ron up and it held at idle which is good (because it wouldn't before) I reved it several times, and finally the air burped and got the temp gauge to begin to register. The idle still held(though it did drop a little) (Remember the idle would not hold before).
We are now draining the water we flushed the system with and will be adding the antifreeze... and burping the system again.
So CROSS your fingers that this is the fix. Because if not we took the fan and pulley's out for nuthin! (Well OK not nuthin, we did have to swap the radiators) but still we spent all that time putting it back together already!
Good point on the search doug. I need to add this writeup to YT too then! Esp since so many more folks over there have the 3.slow and will likely see same issues!
********
BTW, Troy and I want to thank you Brian (theFatKid) for this little bit of Info. You are dead right about that! We had to go to a couple places to get the diagnostic (pressurizer) tool and the adaptor for the 3.0, but we are so glad we did. Reason being we would have just assumed it was HG and then ripped into the engine. We are glad we slowed down and went for the easier (and less expensive) fixes first! And no way could we have done that without the right diagnostic tool. Especially since we were not seeing any foamy oil, or oily coolant, and the #6 spark plug looks good. Doesn't mean we are out of the woods on this yet, but I think (as always) your advise is invaluable!
*********
So that is where we stood last night. Hoping and Praying it was fixed for his drive to work today (6 miles)
From Troy: OK, I don't know much about how to diagnose anything, and I can't afford to swap parts all over right now.
Coming home from work, I hear a hissing sound, then shortly thereafter I see steam out of the hood and the temp gage at max, pull over and shut it down. Hear coolant bubbling and there's coolant all over the front driver's side quadrant of the engine bay - not much anywhere else.
Call Molly and have her bring coolant, fill it up, start motor, quite a bit of coolant burps out. Call AAA and have the truck towed home.
Get it in the driveway pointed uphill, fill it up some more, start the engine with the heat on full blast. A little bubbling goes away pretty quickly. Put the radiator cap on. The heat never gets hot, but the temp gage climbs. Engine dies when you let off the throttle, and can hear bubbling in the radiator. No smoke out the tailpipe. No external coolant leaks.
Where to go from here?
********
The real way to diagnos this would to:
Cooling system pressure test (pump to about 12psi), remove all the spark plugs, bore scope the cylinders and inspect for moisture.
A compression test will not show a blown head gasket most of the time. The compression ring in the head gasket (fire ring or whatever) can usually seal when there is no combustion.
Cooling system pressure test (pump to about 12psi), remove all the spark plugs, bore scope the cylinders and inspect for moisture.
A compression test will not show a blown head gasket most of the time. The compression ring in the head gasket (fire ring or whatever) can usually seal when there is no combustion.
So yeah when we pressurized with the old raidiator we definitally noticed a leak from the raidiator. We also thought we had a leak behind one of the pully's where the water pump would be. But it may have been the large coolant hose above the pully's coming out of the radiator, because when we swaped Tippy's in we adjusted that hose and sealed it well, and then it held pressure.
We just went and got more coolant and are gonna get it all in there, (while we are add it add a power stearing cooler hose from the raidiator) and fire it up and HOPE HOPE HOPE that we've fixed it!
We just went and got more coolant and are gonna get it all in there, (while we are add it add a power stearing cooler hose from the raidiator) and fire it up and HOPE HOPE HOPE that we've fixed it!
So for the record... don't try and start the engine (to check for pressurization) without putting the fan back on. Yeah we forgot the fan holds those two pulley's in place behind it. (I think we were just excited to try it out!) I started it and pulley's went a-flyin! (I killed it and we rounded them up) But with that damned 3.0 as you all know everything is so freaking tight in there. So we had to release tension on the alternator pulley and then the power steering pump pulley then get the belts back on, get the fan back on and tighten the tension on all the pulley's again! What a PITA!
Ok so Troy did get the power steering (low pressure line) hooked up to the radiator (so now the ATF fluid in it is cooled), which is good because we seem to go through a re-manned pump about once a year.
We then started Ron up and it held at idle which is good (because it wouldn't before) I reved it several times, and finally the air burped and got the temp gauge to begin to register. The idle still held(though it did drop a little) (Remember the idle would not hold before).
We are now draining the water we flushed the system with and will be adding the antifreeze... and burping the system again.
So CROSS your fingers that this is the fix. Because if not we took the fan and pulley's out for nuthin! (Well OK not nuthin, we did have to swap the radiators) but still we spent all that time putting it back together already!
Good point on the search doug. I need to add this writeup to YT too then! Esp since so many more folks over there have the 3.slow and will likely see same issues!
********
BTW, Troy and I want to thank you Brian (theFatKid) for this little bit of Info. You are dead right about that! We had to go to a couple places to get the diagnostic (pressurizer) tool and the adaptor for the 3.0, but we are so glad we did. Reason being we would have just assumed it was HG and then ripped into the engine. We are glad we slowed down and went for the easier (and less expensive) fixes first! And no way could we have done that without the right diagnostic tool. Especially since we were not seeing any foamy oil, or oily coolant, and the #6 spark plug looks good. Doesn't mean we are out of the woods on this yet, but I think (as always) your advise is invaluable!
*********
So far so good. We took Ron for a spin (to get some celabratory ice cream) and the temp guage held! The idle is a little low but that could be that he needs to change his idle ajustment screw o-ring. But it isn't dying like it did before (while the temp guage was pegged at HOT)
Last edited by Lysmachia; 07-25-2009 at 08:22 PM.
07-13-2009, 10:27 AM
#2
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And then....
So to review:
No oil in the coolant or via versa
Spark plug #6 was fine (no coolant)
Did the initial pressure test - saw the leak int he radiator and another we thought could be the water pump (but now maybe near temp sensor?)
Replaced the radiator.
Coolant pressure test held 13 PSI for an hour last night after replacing the radiator (but still had only water in there)
Drained the water, put coolant in, took it for a test drive last night. Seemed fine (albeit low idle still) and the heater was blowing hot - so heater core seemed ok.
Drove it this AM and it overheats again!
**********
EDIT From July 25th. We finally figured out the Water pump was seized. And I mean SEIZED! Replaced that, fixed the small leak in Tippy's swapped in radiator, the pressure held using the radiator pressurizer for an hour... put Ron back together and Ron has been running like a champ since this week!
Nooooooo!!!!! :xsmash:
Troy made it only about 3 miles today on the way to work and it overheated. I just went and picked him up and got him to work. (Truck is at walgreens). What we are stumped on is that we drove it more that that far last night and it was fine! (The heater was blowing hot so the heater core was warm.)
Stuck thermostat? We shoulda changed that when we were in there. :xsmash:
What makes no sense is that last night after we changed out the radiator it was holding pressure (for a full hour)?? Though we didn't check the pressure after we drove it and brought it home.
Troy made it only about 3 miles today on the way to work and it overheated. I just went and picked him up and got him to work. (Truck is at walgreens). What we are stumped on is that we drove it more that that far last night and it was fine! (The heater was blowing hot so the heater core was warm.)
Stuck thermostat? We shoulda changed that when we were in there. :xsmash:
What makes no sense is that last night after we changed out the radiator it was holding pressure (for a full hour)?? Though we didn't check the pressure after we drove it and brought it home.
That sux. I'd try that PITA T-stat, before anything cheap to replace and (like brian said) it doesn't like to overheat.
Other possible problems:
Clogged coolant line somewhere in the block/core/heads
Head gasket.
Have you thought of running it without a T-stat for a day or so? It'll take a bit longer to warm up but I have diagnosed a (more easy to replace) bad t-stat before.
Other possible problems:
Clogged coolant line somewhere in the block/core/heads
Head gasket.
Have you thought of running it without a T-stat for a day or so? It'll take a bit longer to warm up but I have diagnosed a (more easy to replace) bad t-stat before.
No oil in the coolant or via versa
Spark plug #6 was fine (no coolant)
Did the initial pressure test - saw the leak int he radiator and another we thought could be the water pump (but now maybe near temp sensor?)
Replaced the radiator.
Coolant pressure test held 13 PSI for an hour last night after replacing the radiator (but still had only water in there)
Drained the water, put coolant in, took it for a test drive last night. Seemed fine (albeit low idle still) and the heater was blowing hot - so heater core seemed ok.
Drove it this AM and it overheats again!
**********
EDIT From July 25th. We finally figured out the Water pump was seized. And I mean SEIZED! Replaced that, fixed the small leak in Tippy's swapped in radiator, the pressure held using the radiator pressurizer for an hour... put Ron back together and Ron has been running like a champ since this week!
Last edited by Lysmachia; 07-25-2009 at 08:23 PM.
Hope you find the leak...
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07-13-2009, 02:25 PM
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07-13-2009, 05:11 PM
#12
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Nope that runs fine - hasn't seized up yet. We are gonna do the temp sensor, and we think the other leak comes fromt he water pump. We also have the blue light with die to work on tracking down any other leaks before we bust into the engine as a last resort...
07-13-2009, 05:18 PM
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I'd go with t'stat as well...
I'd tell people it was named Ron as in the Ronettes an old motown girl group it sounds better then naming it after a fictional male new anchor lol... I mean if you're going to sleep with/in it I'd want it to have a girl's name but whatever floats your boat I'm not here to judge tc...
I'd tell people it was named Ron as in the Ronettes an old motown girl group it sounds better then naming it after a fictional male new anchor lol... I mean if you're going to sleep with/in it I'd want it to have a girl's name but whatever floats your boat I'm not here to judge tc...
07-13-2009, 07:12 PM
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When Molly says temp sensor, she means thermostat.
The outlet over the tstat is plastic and cracked, the sealing surface isn't flat. Got a new one on order, we'll see how that works.
I have practically the entire front of the engine off, so any leaks are pretty visible and there's only coolant below the tstat.
The outlet over the tstat is plastic and cracked, the sealing surface isn't flat. Got a new one on order, we'll see how that works.
I have practically the entire front of the engine off, so any leaks are pretty visible and there's only coolant below the tstat.
07-14-2009, 06:05 AM
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Fan Clutch, or thermostat stuck, or broken. All day long. I just had to replace my rad. in June for a 3vze. If you can get if from the same place I did they will probably give you a deal. Performance Radiator in Denver CO. I have a few pics of the new rad. installed, but no D.I.Y. pics...sorry. Good Luck, cooling system diagnosis can suck!
07-14-2009, 06:10 AM
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FYI: www.autohausaz.com has a great price ($209) on an all metal radiator; looks just like OEM.
07-14-2009, 06:37 AM
#19
Reads like the radiator was leaking and has already been replaced.
If you are in there why not do tstat and water pump and be done with it.
Your local auto parts place I am sure has a nice radiator burping kit with a funnel and fittings that makes getting all the air out easy, if you don't already have one.
Keep us updated and good luck.
If you are in there why not do tstat and water pump and be done with it.
Your local auto parts place I am sure has a nice radiator burping kit with a funnel and fittings that makes getting all the air out easy, if you don't already have one.
Keep us updated and good luck.
07-14-2009, 08:48 AM
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Reads like the radiator was leaking and has already been replaced.
If you are in there why not do tstat and water pump and be done with it.
Your local auto parts place I am sure has a nice radiator burping kit with a funnel and fittings that makes getting all the air out easy, if you don't already have one.
Keep us updated and good luck.
If you are in there why not do tstat and water pump and be done with it.
Your local auto parts place I am sure has a nice radiator burping kit with a funnel and fittings that makes getting all the air out easy, if you don't already have one.
Keep us updated and good luck.
