mac9968

Hello all, I have my sons (at this point however I am feeling like it is mine) 95 4-runner about to roll from the garage. The 4 runner is showing a code 14 "IGF signal from igniter is not imput to the ECM for 6 consecutive ingitions". Any thoughts? The engine will run strong start, sound good, 15 seconds and then stop. It is clear the ECM is stoping the engine.

What is the IGF Signal?

thanks all,

MAC

buckz6319

Mac welcome to yotatech..is your CEL on when ignition is turned on? or are you getting the code while diagnostic testing....I't really confusing some times this stuff
try this link...http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...86troubles.pdf
I also have a code #14 and #24....but I don't have a CEL on.... I only get the code in the diagnostic testing code troubleshooting....I have cleared it out but it comes back after a while of driving but still no CEL on when ignition

I know we are going to have to search for answers...but welcome any advice from members. Their are a lot of experienced folks on this site that can point us in the right direction

If I find out any info on what to do next I'll post up

Dwayne

Aubs

WOW, look at all of us. Add me to the lame list.
On my way to work my 92 3.0 just died like i turned off, but i didn't. I starts and runs for 5 seconds then dies.

i have spark to the distributor. I got no codes.

funny thing though: When my clutch cancel button works (meaning i have tho push it in) the engine fires (then dies). Then about half of the time i can crank it without the button or the clutch pushed in.. bit the engine won't fire at all. No codes

I smell when it cranks for a bit, when it runs for a second i hear it suckin air.
My question is also.... why is my truck shutting itself off? whaaaa, boohoo.

YOTATECH hasn't failed me yet. I hope we all have happy (inexpensive) endings.

mac9968

If this ends up being an igniter pulse to ECM, I just check, 300.00 plus for an OEM.... Yikes..

buckz6319

Well...Mac I think we going to have to start testing .....because my engine starts and runs and I'm able to drive but I have a jumping around timing mark and my codes may have something to do with that.

Mac is your runner a 3vze or a 22?

mac9968

3VZE, what is CEL? I dont find ref to that, I have the MIL on, (Malfunction indicator Lamp)...

Side note, I really like this forum, been increadably helpful.
thanks BuckZ

MAC

buckz6319

Mac..... I like this forum also..."CEL" =(check engine light)....I'm going to keep searching several topics....maybe I'll stumble on something definitive.....

buckz6319

I stumbled on this... it's for a symptom : no start...but I think it will help with testing.I would check the FSM (factory service manual) for correct ohms the ones listed below may not be correct for our year and engine.... but maybe all the other steps will work/


Symptom: No Start.

Theory: The Ignition system on this engine uses a Distributor with three
Pick-up Coils inside and an external Igniter and Coil. The ECM uses the
signals generated by the three Pick-ups to control the Igniter, which
controls the negative side of the Coil for spark. The Igniter also sends a
signal back to the ECM for injector pulse.

The Test: The first place to start is to check the Pick-ups inside the
Distributor. If any of them are defective, nothing else is going to work,
not even the tap-test we're going to do later. The first step is to test
resistance on each of the three Pick-ups. You'll want to check them with
the harness unplugged from the Distributor. Identify the terminals on the
Distributor connector using the wire colors on the harness side.

Terminal-1: White..NE signal
Terminal-2: Red..G1 signal
Terminal-3: Black..G2 signal
Terminal-4: Green..G- signal

Between G- and G1, it should be 125 & 200 ohms. Between G- and G2, it
should also be 125 to 200 ohms. Between G- and NE, it should 155 to 250
ohms. All of these resistance specs are at ambient temperature. If checked
on a hot engine, the tolerances go up about 30 ohms. If any one Pick-up
fails the test, it needs to be replaced before any further testing. If all
three Pick-ups pass, we need to do a "tap-test" at the Igniter. Make sure
the connector is plugged back in at the Distributor. Go to the Igniter,
which should be mounted at the Coil. On the Igniter connector, locate the
Black/Blue wire and probe into it with a test-light. With the key on, tap
the alligator clip of the test-light on battery negative and watch for
spark out of the Coil. If you get no response, try tapping the alligator
clip on battery positive, again watching for spark out of the Coil. If
there's no spark in either case, check for battery voltage at the positive
side of the Coil. If that's okay, attach a second test-light from ground to
the negative side of the Coil and redo the tap-test at the Igniter. If the
test-light on Coil negative flashes during the tap-test, and you had
voltage on the positive side, you have a bad Coil. If the second test-light
did not flash on Coil negative, we need to check the remaining wires at the
Igniter. Make sure you have battery voltage on the Black/Red wire at the
Igniter with the key on. If that's okay, make sure you have continuity on
the Black/White wire between the Igniter connector and the negative side of
the Coil. Make sure the Igniter itself is grounded properly to its mounting
surface on the truck, no rust or corrosion. The last check will be to make
sure the Black wire does not show full continuity to ground. This wire goes
to the Tachometer, and if grounded somewhere in the harness, will keep the
Igniter from working. If all of these things pass inspection, chances are
good you have a defective Igniter. Be sure you check resistance on the Coil
to be sure we don't damage a new Igniter. The primary side should be 0.4 to
0.6 ohms. Secondary should be 10,200 to 13,800 ohms.

The Fix: Replace the defective parts determined by the above testing. Don't
forget, if you do end up replacing the Igniter, double check Coil
resistance to avoid damaging a new Igniter.

mac9968

My truck starts and runs for a few seconds. I am able to use a timing light, do you think I could still have defective pickups. Only stalling as my son has my voltage Ohm meter, so I am am setting on my thumbs

mac9968

Thanks by the way, I intend to follow up with the VOM

Aubs

woohoo. I fanally got my CEL to come on! After wiggling, pulling all connections the initor/coil etc. it ran for like 30 seconds (the longest time yet). now i gotta find my code reader. Can i use a paper clip er somthing in place of my 2 prong plastic "code reader"?

buckz6319

yes a simple paper clip will do....keep updating on your progress, and I'll do the same

mac9968

Hello all,
I was testing my pickups in the Distrib, per buckz's test
G- to G1 - 163 ohms
G- to G2 - 163 ohms
G- to NE - 204 ohms

Per IG29 for 3vz-e all are in tolerance.

Buckz if you are out there, I dont understand the tap test instructions. Where am I looking for spark to come from in this test?

buckz6319

Mac....I'm no expert on this stuff , I'm just a do it yourself er and have been fooling around with autos for years but the Toyotas are new to me and I'm having to learn all about this electrical ohms stuff and other testing.

I really don't know it this is a valid testing procedure?? ..I copied it from another thread..to test the igniter and related components...however I do know that the ohms numbers goes along with my manual.....
the spark comes from removing the coil wire from the distributor cap and you take a spark tester(it looks like a spark plug with a clamp on the plug)...or you can lay the end of the exposed wire against the frame so their is a gap between the part that goes into the cap and frame(that's what I did) then probe into the black wire with blue stripe with a test light.Then take the clip at the end of the test light and touch it to the neg terminal of battery if no spark out of the spark plug tester or end of wire just above ground.Then touch the clip of the tester to pos side of battery.Their should be spark from one or the other hook up(neg or pos)you should be able to here the spark also.

I only had spark touching the pos terminal not the neg terminal but either way I'm getting spark so my guess is the my igniter is working and the coil...but I really don't know if the coil and igniter is working properly when the engine is running....that's going to be hard to test without some kinda machine from what I have read...
maybe some experts will chime in on this thread because I can't afford to go to the stealership
also look at ...www.autoshop101.com
Dwayne

mac9968

I do appreciate your wellingness to work through this together. I am heading to the garage and will let you know what I find..

buckz6319

Cool.........I will be back on later before bed

abecedarian

Hummm... code 14? "No IGF signal input to ECM for 6 or more consecutive events."
That means that at least 6 times in a row the ECU got a signal from the igniter to fire a spark plug, fire the injectors, the injectors fired and the igniter did not send the IGF signal to the ECU saying that the spark plug fired. IGF means "I GOT FIRE". The igniter can detect when a spark plug fires adaquately well or misfires, basically by measuring any signals / voltages reflected back up the plug wire to the coil. If the igniter reads the coil properly, the igniter sends a signal immediately after a plug was supposed to fire saying the plug fired (hence "IGF"... yeah, I like to repeat myself, myself.)

The probable causes of this code are wiring, coil, igniter and ECU (in descending order of likelihood to fail).
Other possible causes could be the fuel mixture is way too rich and wet fouling the plugs (maybe cold start injector remaining on after the engine has been cranked and started), timing retarded too far causing combustion to occur too late in the stroke resulting in a misfire, cam timing incorrect, valve clearances not correct. There are more but I'm getting ahead of myself here.

First, I'd look at all the connections to the coil, igniter AND ECU checking for any moisture, corrosion or even terminals that have backed out of the plug slightly. Check the coil for good connections and NO GREASE ANYWHERE!!!!
... dielectric grease is OK if it's only on the boot for the coil wire to the distributor.

mac9968

THanks abecedarin
Would the ECU shutdown down the engine upon not getting the 'i got fire' from the Igniter?

buckz6319

That means that at least 6 times in a row the ECU got a signal from the igniter to fire a spark plug, fire the injectors, the injectors fired and the igniter did not send the IGF signal to the ECU saying that the spark plug fired. IGF means "I GOT FIRE". The igniter can detect when a spark plug fires adaquately well or misfires, basically by measuring any signals / voltages reflected back up the plug wire to the coil. If the igniter reads the coil properly, the igniter sends a signal immediately after a plug was supposed to fire saying the plug fired

Abe....thanks again for the much needed input.....I do under stand the IGF some I think...and have done some testing and think my igniter is firing but could still be falty( the injectors fired and the igniter did not send the IGF signal to the ECU saying that the spark plug fired) NO signal back??....I'll keep testing")
and my coil was tested within specs , all plug wires are testing good, new ND plugs gaped properly 0.31".I even ran some continuity test from the igniter to the ECT and all checked good.I got spark from the the igniter doing the test above is this a correct way to test the igniter?.

I do however have a jumping around timing marks on the crank it moves up above the 10 degree, and below 8 degree back and forth.I have checked the coil pickup ohms and are within specs cold & hot.I haven't removed the distributor yet and not sure if i need to?....
any more advice would be appreciated
Dwayne

mac9968

I also just completed the TAP test for my coil and igniter, and got spark on the positive. I think from a pure "fire" standpoint I have ruled out the coil and igniter.(thanks Dwayne) There is however this signal back from the igniter to the ECM that I can not confirm...... yet anyway