Dead Runner
08-16-2015, 07:38 PM
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Dead Runner
*****Yet another UPDATE*****
Yeah, that 15A EFI fuse can narrow it down. It must be a short somewhere. Check the O2 sensor dumba'Ass!!!
The O2 sensor wire was laying on the exhaust pipe just upstream of my Cat. It must have jarred loose and landed just perfectly on the hot pipe and sat there for a bit. It was wrapped in a heat resistant fabric and a plastic sheath but it toasted through that and exposed a wire. It was very obvious once I climbed under there. I will repair it at the end of the week. I have to work tommorow so... it's still 65 miles away. I'm an electronics tech and have no problems with electrical work. I can't imagine cutting the burnt section out and splicing the wire(s) will be too bad. The plugs seemed fine. I'll just insulate and prep for high heat and secure it somewhere out of the way. Should fix it... or at least fix this. These forums and threads are great... super crazy helpful. I appreciate every bodies input and help. I'll let you know what happens.
*****Update*****
So she is still down... but... she is back together from the timing belt disassembly... which is good.
What I have now found is that my 15 amp EFI FUSE is blowing. I bought some of those fuses that light up when they blow just to save time and it did.
My oil pressure dash guage is flat...
My temperature dash guage is also flat...
The cab electrical is working, clock,radio, interior lights, headlights
I have replaced the EFI relay.
I'm not sure why it's blowing and I don't know if I'm burning the relay as well?
I'm going to look at some if the threads on here about that fuse blowing.
But... now that I know it's not a $500 plus timing belt job at a shop I'll take it in... I think it's beyond my ability to fix without the proper tools and test equipment.
***************
Ok... so some quick background... this is my 3rd 4Runner(1st one was a 90 - 2 door, 5 speed V6, 4x4 it literally saved my life in an awful freeway wreck where she was totaled and I walked away with 50 stiches, 2nd one was an 88, 5 speed two door with 430k best truck ever but she had an electricial issue that I was unable to spend the time or resources on. I currently have a 95, 4door, 5 speed V6, 4X4 that I bought about a month ago)
I'm no expert but I am mechanical.
This current 4Runner was running great. She was a little sluggish on the freeway getting up to 75mph but once she was there she ran perfectly fine.
So... I'm driving home from out of town about 65 miles from home doing about 70mph and it just gave up. No warning, no flashing dash lights, no sputter, no oil leaks, no coolant leaks... just died and I coasted to the shoulder.
I tried to start it and she turns over but she doesn't start.
I had a similar experience with my 90 and it was the timing belt, after being towed home my buddy and I did the whole belt, tensioner, WP, thermo kit and it ran across the country 3 or 4 times.
So although I was kind of pissed that this, month old, purchase just dropped a timing belt I'm confident I can do it. So, silly me... doesn't check anything else and I start the timing belt strip off. I get the cover off and it's brand spanking new perfect condition. Obviously it's not the belt.
So... of course now I'm frustrated. It's dark. I've been running around all day on a Sunday that I was supposed to be at work but I'm stuck out of town parked in front of a friends house with the front quarter of the motor off.
It turns over but won't start.
I'm thinking spark. I don't have fire... right? My battery and starter are turning it over but I got no spark.
I suppose next weekend I will start by checking plugs, then coil, then ignition wires, maybe alternator...
Anybody got a recommendation?
I'm obviously frustrated and my rig is 65 miles away sitting in a friends driveway waiting to get put back together so I can try and figure it out.
What should be the first 10 things to check?
Any help and all comments are appreciated.
I'm in Amarillo and my rig is in Pampa TX. If there are any 4Runner Gods in the vacinity... I'm open to suggestions.
Thanks in advance.
Chris
Yeah, that 15A EFI fuse can narrow it down. It must be a short somewhere. Check the O2 sensor dumba'Ass!!!
The O2 sensor wire was laying on the exhaust pipe just upstream of my Cat. It must have jarred loose and landed just perfectly on the hot pipe and sat there for a bit. It was wrapped in a heat resistant fabric and a plastic sheath but it toasted through that and exposed a wire. It was very obvious once I climbed under there. I will repair it at the end of the week. I have to work tommorow so... it's still 65 miles away. I'm an electronics tech and have no problems with electrical work. I can't imagine cutting the burnt section out and splicing the wire(s) will be too bad. The plugs seemed fine. I'll just insulate and prep for high heat and secure it somewhere out of the way. Should fix it... or at least fix this. These forums and threads are great... super crazy helpful. I appreciate every bodies input and help. I'll let you know what happens.
*****Update*****
So she is still down... but... she is back together from the timing belt disassembly... which is good.
What I have now found is that my 15 amp EFI FUSE is blowing. I bought some of those fuses that light up when they blow just to save time and it did.
My oil pressure dash guage is flat...
My temperature dash guage is also flat...
The cab electrical is working, clock,radio, interior lights, headlights
I have replaced the EFI relay.
I'm not sure why it's blowing and I don't know if I'm burning the relay as well?
I'm going to look at some if the threads on here about that fuse blowing.
But... now that I know it's not a $500 plus timing belt job at a shop I'll take it in... I think it's beyond my ability to fix without the proper tools and test equipment.
***************
Ok... so some quick background... this is my 3rd 4Runner(1st one was a 90 - 2 door, 5 speed V6, 4x4 it literally saved my life in an awful freeway wreck where she was totaled and I walked away with 50 stiches, 2nd one was an 88, 5 speed two door with 430k best truck ever but she had an electricial issue that I was unable to spend the time or resources on. I currently have a 95, 4door, 5 speed V6, 4X4 that I bought about a month ago)
I'm no expert but I am mechanical.
This current 4Runner was running great. She was a little sluggish on the freeway getting up to 75mph but once she was there she ran perfectly fine.
So... I'm driving home from out of town about 65 miles from home doing about 70mph and it just gave up. No warning, no flashing dash lights, no sputter, no oil leaks, no coolant leaks... just died and I coasted to the shoulder.
I tried to start it and she turns over but she doesn't start.
I had a similar experience with my 90 and it was the timing belt, after being towed home my buddy and I did the whole belt, tensioner, WP, thermo kit and it ran across the country 3 or 4 times.
So although I was kind of pissed that this, month old, purchase just dropped a timing belt I'm confident I can do it. So, silly me... doesn't check anything else and I start the timing belt strip off. I get the cover off and it's brand spanking new perfect condition. Obviously it's not the belt.
So... of course now I'm frustrated. It's dark. I've been running around all day on a Sunday that I was supposed to be at work but I'm stuck out of town parked in front of a friends house with the front quarter of the motor off.
It turns over but won't start.
I'm thinking spark. I don't have fire... right? My battery and starter are turning it over but I got no spark.
I suppose next weekend I will start by checking plugs, then coil, then ignition wires, maybe alternator...
Anybody got a recommendation?
I'm obviously frustrated and my rig is 65 miles away sitting in a friends driveway waiting to get put back together so I can try and figure it out.
What should be the first 10 things to check?
Any help and all comments are appreciated.
I'm in Amarillo and my rig is in Pampa TX. If there are any 4Runner Gods in the vacinity... I'm open to suggestions.
Thanks in advance.
Chris
Last edited by izzmee; 08-22-2015 at 07:40 PM.
08-16-2015, 07:46 PM
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Your alternator is not keeping you from starting.
I'd pick up a $20 timing light; it's the easiest way to check for spark on each spark plug wire and the coil wire. You're going to need it anyway.
But the most likely causes of no-spark are a bad igniter or bad coil, in that order (the coil costs much less than the igniter).
Here's everything I know about igniters: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...gniter-287857/
Last, if you're a long ways away from your rig and don't know where to start, that may be a good time to just get it towed to a local shop. They have the tools and experience to at least quickly identify the problem.
Good luck!
I'd pick up a $20 timing light; it's the easiest way to check for spark on each spark plug wire and the coil wire. You're going to need it anyway.
But the most likely causes of no-spark are a bad igniter or bad coil, in that order (the coil costs much less than the igniter).
Here's everything I know about igniters: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...gniter-287857/
Last, if you're a long ways away from your rig and don't know where to start, that may be a good time to just get it towed to a local shop. They have the tools and experience to at least quickly identify the problem.
Good luck!
08-16-2015, 11:27 PM
#3
I had something like this happen.
Distributor drive gear sheared off.
Pull the cap see if the rotor turns.
you buy chance did not run out of fuel??
Circuit opening relay failed or fuel pump quit ??
Fuel filter clogged .
Although the way it just quit seems like it is electrical
Distributor drive gear sheared off.
Pull the cap see if the rotor turns.
you buy chance did not run out of fuel??
Circuit opening relay failed or fuel pump quit ??
Fuel filter clogged .
Although the way it just quit seems like it is electrical
08-17-2015, 05:04 AM
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Your alternator is not keeping you from starting.
I'd pick up a $20 timing light; it's the easiest way to check for spark on each spark plug wire and the coil wire. You're going to need it anyway.
But the most likely causes of no-spark are a bad igniter or bad coil, in that order (the coil costs much less than the igniter).
Here's everything I know about igniters: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...gniter-287857/
Last, if you're a long ways away from your rig and don't know where to start, that may be a good time to just get it towed to a local shop. They have the tools and experience to at least quickly identify the problem.
Good luck!
I'd pick up a $20 timing light; it's the easiest way to check for spark on each spark plug wire and the coil wire. You're going to need it anyway.
But the most likely causes of no-spark are a bad igniter or bad coil, in that order (the coil costs much less than the igniter).
Here's everything I know about igniters: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...gniter-287857/
Last, if you're a long ways away from your rig and don't know where to start, that may be a good time to just get it towed to a local shop. They have the tools and experience to at least quickly identify the problem.
Good luck!
08-17-2015, 05:06 AM
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I had something like this happen.
Distributor drive gear sheared off.
Pull the cap see if the rotor turns.
you buy chance did not run out of fuel??
Circuit opening relay failed or fuel pump quit ??
Fuel filter clogged .
Although the way it just quit seems like it is electrical
Distributor drive gear sheared off.
Pull the cap see if the rotor turns.
you buy chance did not run out of fuel??
Circuit opening relay failed or fuel pump quit ??
Fuel filter clogged .
Although the way it just quit seems like it is electrical
Fuel was my very first thought when I was coasting to the side of the road but I had filled up not 30 min before... I suppose it could be a filter or fuel pump... I'll get to those
08-17-2015, 07:27 AM
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Since it quit cold without sputtering, it sounds more like ignition than fuel starvation. Are there any diagnostic codes showing? Just because it doesn't run doesn't mean you can't check for codes in the normal way (short TE1 to E1 in the diag connector and count blinks of the CEL). If the ECU stopped getting proper signals from the distributor or igniter it should let you know with a code.
Keep in mind that, when the ECU stops getting signals from the ignition system, it immediately shuts down the injectors to keep from pumping unburned fuel through the cylinders. That's one reason it would quit so abruptly without run-on or dieseling.
Also, one of the first things you should do is check the EFI fuse. It'll shut down cold if that's blown.
And, don't mess with the plugs right now. While they can affect the quality of how the engine runs, they will not cause the engine to go from smooth running to dead, instantly. And scope is right, it's not your alternator. Focus on things that, when they fail, can completely stop the engine by affecting all cylinders at once. The timing belt was a valid guess given the symptoms, but I would have started with something simpler.
Keep in mind that, when the ECU stops getting signals from the ignition system, it immediately shuts down the injectors to keep from pumping unburned fuel through the cylinders. That's one reason it would quit so abruptly without run-on or dieseling.
Also, one of the first things you should do is check the EFI fuse. It'll shut down cold if that's blown.
And, don't mess with the plugs right now. While they can affect the quality of how the engine runs, they will not cause the engine to go from smooth running to dead, instantly. And scope is right, it's not your alternator. Focus on things that, when they fail, can completely stop the engine by affecting all cylinders at once. The timing belt was a valid guess given the symptoms, but I would have started with something simpler.
Last edited by RJR; 08-17-2015 at 07:35 AM.
08-17-2015, 08:30 AM
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Since it quit cold without sputtering, it sounds more like ignition than fuel starvation. Are there any diagnostic codes showing? Just because it doesn't run doesn't mean you can't check for codes in the normal way (short TE1 to E1 in the diag connector and count blinks of the CEL). If the ECU stopped getting proper
signals from the distributor or igniter it should let you know with a code.
Keep in mind that, when the ECU stops getting signals from the ignition system, it immediately shuts down the injectors to keep from pumping unburned fuel through the cylinders. That's one reason it would quit so abruptly without run-on or dieseling.
Also, one of the first things you should do is check the EFI fuse. It'll shut down cold if that's blown.
And, don't mess with the plugs right now. While they can affect the quality of how the engine runs, they will not cause the engine to go from smooth running to dead, instantly. And scope is right, it's not your alternator. Focus on things that, when they fail, can completely stop the engine by affecting all cylinders at once. The timing belt was a valid guess given the symptoms, but I would have started with something simpler.
signals from the distributor or igniter it should let you know with a code.
Keep in mind that, when the ECU stops getting signals from the ignition system, it immediately shuts down the injectors to keep from pumping unburned fuel through the cylinders. That's one reason it would quit so abruptly without run-on or dieseling.
Also, one of the first things you should do is check the EFI fuse. It'll shut down cold if that's blown.
And, don't mess with the plugs right now. While they can affect the quality of how the engine runs, they will not cause the engine to go from smooth running to dead, instantly. And scope is right, it's not your alternator. Focus on things that, when they fail, can completely stop the engine by affecting all cylinders at once. The timing belt was a valid guess given the symptoms, but I would have started with something simpler.
A guy at work said that EFI fuse as well...
I was mostly frustrated, away from base, no tools... so... I panicked and thought the worst... where I'm hoping it will be something as easy as a fuse... it probably is... I'm 70 miles from it until Thursday where I can give it the weekends attention she needs...
Try getting parts on a Sunday in po'dunk... not easy
Great ideas... thanks... I'll get on it
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08-17-2015, 10:07 AM
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And I had a vehicle (back in the days of throttle body fuel injection) where an injector suddenly stock OPEN, flooded the engine, and shut it right off. The tow truck driver, like many of us, immediately suggested broken timing belt (that one was easy; the vehicle had a chain).
The point is that timing belt is actually a pretty good guess for sudden stoppage, but it's still just one of many possibilities. Imagine if izzmee had just removed the distributor cap and had someone crank it (or turn the crank with a wrench). That would instantly (and easily) rule out a broken timing belt.
So do things in order. A dead fuel pump could cause this, but it's harder to check than spark.
The point is that timing belt is actually a pretty good guess for sudden stoppage, but it's still just one of many possibilities. Imagine if izzmee had just removed the distributor cap and had someone crank it (or turn the crank with a wrench). That would instantly (and easily) rule out a broken timing belt.
So do things in order. A dead fuel pump could cause this, but it's harder to check than spark.
08-17-2015, 10:20 AM
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If you have a friend with a 3/4 ton pickup or a Suburban with a class II hitch, it's not that expensive (<$75) to rent a tow dolly or low-boy trailer from Uhaul and haul it home. Then at least you'd have it close at hand instead of 1+ hours away.
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