Cylinder Honing
12-31-2009, 09:25 AM
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Cylinder Honing
I need to hone my cylinder walls as I am replacing the rings.
I was curious if I could hone the cylinders while the block and crank is still in the truck?
Also, does it take a professional to know how to hone? From what I heard is you have to get a 45 degree cross hatch. It might just be easier to take it to a shop?
What I thought was that you don't "have" to hone the walls, it will just take a long time to wear in. And that if I did not do the best job that it would just take longer for the rings to seat. Which is no big deal.
Thanks, Trevor
I was curious if I could hone the cylinders while the block and crank is still in the truck?
Also, does it take a professional to know how to hone? From what I heard is you have to get a 45 degree cross hatch. It might just be easier to take it to a shop?
What I thought was that you don't "have" to hone the walls, it will just take a long time to wear in. And that if I did not do the best job that it would just take longer for the rings to seat. Which is no big deal.
Thanks, Trevor
12-31-2009, 09:37 AM
#2
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If you do not hone your cylinders. Your ring job is uselss..
You do not need a proffesional to do it. Just get a drill and a honing stone kit and you are ready to go. Fast drill speed and fast even movement of the drill up and down the cylinder walls and your done. And yes a 45 degree cross hatch is what you want to achieve
ALSO, YES. YOU CN DO IT IN THE TRUCK
You do not need a proffesional to do it. Just get a drill and a honing stone kit and you are ready to go. Fast drill speed and fast even movement of the drill up and down the cylinder walls and your done. And yes a 45 degree cross hatch is what you want to achieve
ALSO, YES. YOU CN DO IT IN THE TRUCK
12-31-2009, 12:55 PM
#4
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I would use a brush hone and not a stone one. I read somewhere, on here i think about not using a stone hone. Something to do with the consistency of the cross hashes. Not sure on the oil part. If your gonna do it with the crank in, I would cover the journals with something and then use a lint free rag and mineral spirits to clean the crank off when done.
12-31-2009, 01:12 PM
#5
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I would say hone your cylinders if you don't your taking the chance of your rings not setting properly (especially if there is scoring in the cylinders) if they don't set properly you will use oil and your ring job will be useless weaselman is right you want a 45 degree cross hatch and it is something you can do yourself however if you have never done it before you could always take it to a shop it's fairly inexpensive to have your cylinders done (i think 10 or 15 bucks a cylinder at the local shop here) and considering you only have 4 or 6 cylinders no bigee but it's ultimatly up to you
12-31-2009, 01:20 PM
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If you don't hone the cylinders, new rings will likely not ever seat properly and you'll end up with low compression and excessive blow-by.
To know whether you can get by with honing or will require boring, you need to check the cylinders for taper and round. If taper and roundness are within specs, honing is fine otherwise it's bore time. Also, even if the taper and round are in spec, honing will enlarge the bore since it's scraping metal off the cylinder walls and you may end up requiring oversized parts.
Up to you what to do.
To know whether you can get by with honing or will require boring, you need to check the cylinders for taper and round. If taper and roundness are within specs, honing is fine otherwise it's bore time. Also, even if the taper and round are in spec, honing will enlarge the bore since it's scraping metal off the cylinder walls and you may end up requiring oversized parts.
Up to you what to do.
12-31-2009, 02:30 PM
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The cylinders were bored 30 over last year full engine rebuild and has 30k miles on it. I was an idiot and put my rings in backwards and the oil rings in line with each other so it burns excessive oil and smokes when idling for awhile.
Anyway, I was thinking of just taking the head off, taking out the pistons, and checking the rings, if they need to be flipped, flip em. If the oil rings need to be separated, then separate them.
Basically I'm trying to fix my first mistake. If anyone can chime in and tell me what I should do that would be great!
I know honing will take some material off, as I have no idea how much it will take off. But I know honing is the correct procedure before installing new rings.
And I have a Street RV head w/ a 268C cam ready to drop on when I have enough for the gaskets, timing chain, and some other tid bits
Anyway, I was thinking of just taking the head off, taking out the pistons, and checking the rings, if they need to be flipped, flip em. If the oil rings need to be separated, then separate them.
Basically I'm trying to fix my first mistake. If anyone can chime in and tell me what I should do that would be great!
I know honing will take some material off, as I have no idea how much it will take off. But I know honing is the correct procedure before installing new rings.
And I have a Street RV head w/ a 268C cam ready to drop on when I have enough for the gaskets, timing chain, and some other tid bits
Last edited by 91Toyota; 12-31-2009 at 02:33 PM.
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12-31-2009, 03:24 PM
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The cylinders were bored 30 over last year full engine rebuild and has 30k miles on it. I was an idiot and put my rings in backwards and the oil rings in line with each other so it burns excessive oil and smokes when idling for awhile.
Anyway, I was thinking of just taking the head off, taking out the pistons, and checking the rings, if they need to be flipped, flip em. If the oil rings need to be separated, then separate them.
Basically I'm trying to fix my first mistake. If anyone can chime in and tell me what I should do that would be great!
I know honing will take some material off, as I have no idea how much it will take off. But I know honing is the correct procedure before installing new rings.
And I have a Street RV head w/ a 268C cam ready to drop on when I have enough for the gaskets, timing chain, and some other tid bits
Anyway, I was thinking of just taking the head off, taking out the pistons, and checking the rings, if they need to be flipped, flip em. If the oil rings need to be separated, then separate them.
Basically I'm trying to fix my first mistake. If anyone can chime in and tell me what I should do that would be great!
I know honing will take some material off, as I have no idea how much it will take off. But I know honing is the correct procedure before installing new rings.
And I have a Street RV head w/ a 268C cam ready to drop on when I have enough for the gaskets, timing chain, and some other tid bits
- pull your whole engine and start over again... its right thing to do...
- .get direct tv and record (horsepower,trucks,extreme4x4,musclecar) on spike tv. 241
- and record all of these shows on speed channel 607 (truck unv. gearz, hotrod tv, kit an autobody expericance. 2 guys garage..)
- these shows dont show you everything but, if you record them, you can always go back to them for a refernce.
- go to your local libary and check out some book on engine rebuilding a cheap way to learn alot of knowledge..
- evereybody on the internet is trying to make a fast buck.
- but you could get the dvd from ebay of the guy rebuilding toyota 22r'/re's i herd alot of good stuff about.. it
12-31-2009, 03:46 PM
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I'd pull the engine and check the bores with the right equipment and go from there. If you don't know how or do not have the stuff to do this, take it to a machine shop and have the work done. If the bores are still in speck, then hone them and install new rings.
If they are out of spec, have the holes punched and new pistons and rings.
Make sure you check or have checked all the bearings in the bottom end, you should have the crank out of it any how. It's a good time to make sure you don't have any other problems sneaking up on you.
If they are out of spec, have the holes punched and new pistons and rings.
Make sure you check or have checked all the bearings in the bottom end, you should have the crank out of it any how. It's a good time to make sure you don't have any other problems sneaking up on you.
12-31-2009, 03:49 PM
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no, man your just stating the facts..
its a waste of time and money if you dont do it right.
i work in a shop the 3 main things they do is rebuild diesel engines, rebuild starters/alternators/diesel,fuelpumps/ and transfer cases transmissions and final drives and differantails
there is no senes on working on a engine that is warp beyond spefication
each bore needs to be checked
its a waste of time and money if you dont do it right.
i work in a shop the 3 main things they do is rebuild diesel engines, rebuild starters/alternators/diesel,fuelpumps/ and transfer cases transmissions and final drives and differantails
there is no senes on working on a engine that is warp beyond spefication
each bore needs to be checked
12-31-2009, 03:56 PM
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Well... it's funny how people post stuff on this or that as though it's gospel.
Sometimes I wonder where they come up with the information or basis for their opinion (which they are fully entitled to post).... but it doesn't mean that what they say or post is correct.
I would rather trust a guy like John at Phoenix Cylinder to explain why to don't hone a worn block and expect to get anything but very risky results, than 5 posts from someone on this site saying "oh yeah use this and hone this and it's all good.
I'd consider him an expert since he's been doing this type of machine work for over 18 years and specializes in "import" engines!!
Rebuilding one one of these engines isn't rocket science, but why not do it right and put it together and make it last another 200K+ miles.
Getting cylinders machined properly and assembling the parts is very important to getting the longevity that you would expect from these legendary engines.
But, that's just my worthless opinion...
gNARLS.
Sometimes I wonder where they come up with the information or basis for their opinion (which they are fully entitled to post).... but it doesn't mean that what they say or post is correct.
I would rather trust a guy like John at Phoenix Cylinder to explain why to don't hone a worn block and expect to get anything but very risky results, than 5 posts from someone on this site saying "oh yeah use this and hone this and it's all good.
I'd consider him an expert since he's been doing this type of machine work for over 18 years and specializes in "import" engines!!
Rebuilding one one of these engines isn't rocket science, but why not do it right and put it together and make it last another 200K+ miles.
Getting cylinders machined properly and assembling the parts is very important to getting the longevity that you would expect from these legendary engines.
But, that's just my worthless opinion...
gNARLS.
Its already .030 over. Now I have to buy another set of pistons, rebuild a whole other engine just because the oil rings were put on wrong and possibly the other rings too.
Your telling me my 30k mile engine is worthless....and throughout 30k miles the bore's are off and it needs to be bored again???
Last edited by 91Toyota; 12-31-2009 at 04:09 PM.
12-31-2009, 04:02 PM
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well you can go extreme racing bore size...
these guys can help you out...
http://www.22reperformance.com/22RE%...20Process.html
these guys can help you out...
http://www.22reperformance.com/22RE%...20Process.html
someone
12-31-2009, 04:14 PM
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91toyota did you call up http://www.engnbldr.com/
that place is up your way...
that place is up your way...
12-31-2009, 04:33 PM
#19
O.K., so here's the real dope from someone who HAS actually done this a time or two.
Use a stone NOT a brush hone.
The results using a multi-stone unit will always be more accurate/consistent than a brush type because the tension can be adjusted as the hone wears during use. I'd never use a brush hone, PERIOD! For anything.
Also, despite popular opinion,
, an engine can nearly ALWAYS be rehoned and reringed/repistoned at least ONCE before needing to be rebored.
I did this a few months ago on my 3vze with 226,000 miles after cracking a piston. I used a brand new .0001" bore gauge to measure the out-of-roundness & taper of all the bores. They were all WELL within the tolerance limits given in the FSM as to when to rebore. NO BORE was REQUIRED!!! Just new standard size rings & pistons.
Have fun!
And yes, I did it with the crankshaft still in the block. No problem!
Use a stone NOT a brush hone.
The results using a multi-stone unit will always be more accurate/consistent than a brush type because the tension can be adjusted as the hone wears during use. I'd never use a brush hone, PERIOD! For anything.
Also, despite popular opinion,
, an engine can nearly ALWAYS be rehoned and reringed/repistoned at least ONCE before needing to be rebored.I did this a few months ago on my 3vze with 226,000 miles after cracking a piston. I used a brand new .0001" bore gauge to measure the out-of-roundness & taper of all the bores. They were all WELL within the tolerance limits given in the FSM as to when to rebore. NO BORE was REQUIRED!!! Just new standard size rings & pistons.
Have fun!
And yes, I did it with the crankshaft still in the block. No problem!
12-31-2009, 04:37 PM
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never be affaird to ask.. you always have to pump the information out people until you get what you want... its the same thing police officers do...
hell your less then 50 miles from portland why dont you just drop the whole engine up there at engnbldr.com tell you what you need to do... hear from the horse's mouth instead of just throwing you block in the trashcan.. your block will fit the back seat of a honda civic. so what are u waiting on...
hell your less then 50 miles from portland why dont you just drop the whole engine up there at engnbldr.com tell you what you need to do... hear from the horse's mouth instead of just throwing you block in the trashcan.. your block will fit the back seat of a honda civic. so what are u waiting on...
