gary96360

my leafs are completely on top of the overload and i'm getting sick and tired of the rear end bouncing, its not as bad as my ram but i hate it anyways. i always drive with an empty bed so weight carrying is of no concern to me. so zuk you think an aal to lift the leafs off the overloads will give a little better ride than sagged leafs on the overload?

ZUK

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=...................... so zuk you think an aal to lift the leafs off the overloads will give a little better ride than sagged leafs on the overload?[/QUOTE]

Hell ya ....ANYTHING is better than the leafs sagged 100% on the solid over-leaf. It will be softer but bear in mind the coils will probably be even softer yet. There are pros and cons to AALs....they are cheap...less than 100....but they do require breaking the pack apart and I know on some of those packs that there is too much rust and u-bolts strip and center pins break. Sag is often a problem....it's asking alot of 1 AAL to basically support the WHOLE leafpack. They will loose their support within 1 year I am guessing. There are always 'exceptions', of course.
You know, a couple of the 100 pound 14" coils will do wonders for all aspects of your ride. Buy the coils on ebay for 75 total.....and make your own UPPER mounts. Let the rubber snubber act as the lower mount for now and work on changing that later.(no messing with snapped u-bolts and such) They should give over 2 inches lift....forever.
ZUK

Junkers88

Yup. I did some figuring last night and I can do the 14" 100lb coils and your mounts along with a set of BJ spacers (the same thing I did with the pickup) for just about 300$. 100$ for the spacers, 75$ for the coils and 100$ for your mounts (if you still sell them for that). After looking at lift kits that include brackets for the front and new leaf packs for the rear I've decided I don't want to spend that kind of money and still have to worry about CV angles and extending the driveshafts. That and most of the reviews I've read say that the rear springs will begin to sag just like the factory ones did, the coils don't. Then there is the cool factor.

Oh I'm planning on doing a write up and I'll be sure not to let anything hit the concrete again, that sucked. I'm actually going to try to do a full write up to include everything I do to the rig from trouble shooting any issues in the interior/engine compartment to installing the lift/gears/locker.

Thanks again.

Junkers88

Although I'm not ZUK I have some input that may help. My 86 pickup is a daily driver and weekend wheeler so 90% of the time I'm driving around with nothing in the bed but my hilift mounted to the inside. Before the coils the back end would bounce all over the place and rode like a brick with any kind of load in it. I even wheeled it once with a Jeep club out of Gallup before the lift and had a few timew where I'd drive over a basket ball sized rock and the truck would push over since the springs were already flat. After the coil install I ran around for a while with a camper shell on it and 200lbs of camping gear in the rear, the ride was great. Shortly after the camper came off I started doing more wheeling in the mountains and was surprised how well the back end would flex. The time that impressed me the most was when I was up a few miles into the mountains here and came across an area where a lot of trees had been cut down by someone (later found out is was the forestry service) and I loaded up the truck to above the bed rails and 4x4ed my way back out again. The coils kept the load up above the spring pack and other than needing a lower gear here and there I couldn't even tell the load was back there.

I've never used an add-a-leaf but if it was me I'd do the coils. I KNOW that they work.

space-junk

iTrader: (1)

ya know im just ribbin ya junkers...

im just glad to hear that the dang thing didnt fall off ON you...

aviator

Looks like a very interesting mod... I may have to do this one...

FastLane1000

Anyone thought about removing the overload leaf with this setup to allow for more articulation? or would the tire be able to hit the inner fender?

Lane
'88 pickup 53K miles 22re, engnbuilder timing chain kit, cragar soft 8s with toyo A/Ts
'06 Tacoma double cab 4x4 sport, trd exhaust, toyo A/Ts, billstein 5100s at 1 3/4 inch lift

bwiygul

not tryin to take any biz there ZUK, but does anybody have a parts list if i was going to build the spring keepers? also, this one's for ZUK, i want to do this mod, but i want to keep it relatively close to the stock height. i'm pretty flat too since it was a work truck and used for garage doors, so i'm guessing i'm probably about 2" low, will the 14" lift it 2" from where it is? or from the stock height? oh yeah, and you should start millin out some bj spacers too...or somebody should!! come on, 100 bucks for two chunks of aluminum with one big hole and 4 small ones?!! if anybody knows of a cheaper place to get em, let me know eh. thanks.



ROCK AND ROLL!! just don't roll too far unless you have friends to roll you back over the rock!!

scuba

Ughh, Please dont do AAL's they ride like ass..

flyingbrass

The pictures in this thread are no longer showing. This is a great write-up. Thanks, Junkers88. I hope you can sort out the pics.

I have a stock 86 pickup with a shell, pretty much the same as where Junkers started. I'm riding on the overloads and measure 11 1/4" rim to fender, same as he did. So, I'd probably get similar results using the same springs.

I put a jack under my bumper to gauge the effects of different amounts of lift. An inch increase rim to fender would be plenty. With more the truck starts looking like a cat in heat, and I can't get a straight view through the shell rear window. My front is about 13.5" rim to fender, so there's room to crank the torsion bars slightly to help level things out, but I'd rather not do that. Tires are 235/75.

I'd like to find a cheap way to get off the overloads because the ride is terrible. If I were to boost the rear 2.75", I'd need BJ spacers, bigger tires to take advantage of the extra height (or be running lifted higher than needed for no good reason), then rebuild the tiring engine so it has some power to turn the larger tires. That's more than I can afford or want to get into at this point.

I really like this mod idea. Are coil springs available that would bring me back to essentially stock height? If/when I want more lift, swapping in stouter springs should be easy.

If I'm understanding the spring ratings correctly, they are pounds per inch of diameter, so a 14" spring of a given rating should provide about the same force as a 12" spring with the same rating. Is this right? If so, going shorter shouldn't help. Might even hurt if the shorter spring limits flex.

Most of my driving is around town with an empty bed, but when offroad I usually haul several hundred pounds of gear. Any suggestions?

Junkers88

flyingbrass,
Sorry about the pics, I had some issues with Photobucket and had to shift some things around.

Yes the spring rate is per inch of coil. Instead of using the 14" coils like I did you could go with a 12" coil in a little higher spring rate. Say a 12" 125lb coil? You wouldn't get as much lift but would still get the rig up off of the overloads and increase the quality of the ride.

Best bet would be to contact ZUK over at gearinstalls.com and ask him. He's going to want a measurement from the bottom of the frame to the top of the spring pack in the rear to help determine what you need. Down on the bottom of his page on the left hand side is a list of folks that have done this mod. Some of them used shorter springs just to level out the rig so that may help you as well.

I also carry hundreds of pounds of stuff when I camp and I just recently did this mod to an 89 4runner with a higher rate set of springs. It turned out great and if you can fab your own mounts it's a really cheap way to lift a rig.

Let me know if I can help.

aviator

When you think about it you're not really "lifting" the rig just restoring normal ride height. I may do this mod once I get my new leafs put on....

ZUK

iTrader: (1)

http://gearinstalls.com/coilinfo.htm

Hey bwiygul....I strongly encourage everyone to make their own mounts and get the appropriate coil from the above link. I'd like to see WabFab come out with a kit and I certainly don't need or expect any credit for the concept. It is a simple concept and this is one of those times where 'simple' works very nicely.
A person can get quite creative and make up their own mounts....the lower rubber snubber actually is very effective to use it as is. As long as the rubber is still securely glued to the metal base and is not severely cracked, I say use it. I am doing that right now on my 2001 Tacoma.
The upper mount requires a little thought( although I can make a set I feel a better set can be made with just a touch of creativity).....perhaps another set of lower rubber snubbers can be MIG welded to the underside of the frame. The welds need only be small and should not smoke the rubber very much. OR....something could be drilled/tapped and bolted to the underside of the frame eliminating the welding part. My ideas for a quick and dirty upper mount would be to find a length of solid plastic...or a body lift puck....about 2" long....no more than 2.55" diameter(in order to fit nicely inside the coil) and then use a long drill to drill right down the center. Then drill a hole on the underside of the frame and tap for the appropriate FINE threaded tap and there ya go now you can secure an upper mount without the trouble of MIG welding it.
Generally, if there is 8" between the leafpack and frame underside then the 12" x 125 coils will give a modest 2" lift.....the 14" x 100 will give a healthy 3".
If you have a 10" gap between the leaf and frame then the 12" will yield only about 1" lift and the 14" coil will be a 2" lift.
As far as I can tell, there is no reason to go to a heavier duty coil poundage than the 14" x 100 or the 12" x 125 rating....those are the lightest duty available from that Ebay site in those lengths and they seem to work just fine with ride quality AND payload ability.
Hope that helps.

The more I think about it...it would seem like an old 1.5~2" body lift puck (aluminum or composite) with a bolt hole right down the center would make a nice upper mount
ZUK

flyingbrass

My leafpack to frame measurement is about 9". From ZUK's numbers the 12" springs should give me around 1.5". I'd rather have 1", but beggars can't be choosers. Even if I were to go with OME or Downey replacement leaf springs I'd end up somewhat taller than stock because the smallest they offer is +2".

Does anyone know what stock height is?

I have very little welding experience, but I can probably make mounting brackets myself. I'd need someone good to weld them to the frame. The bolt-on approach is more appealing.

I'll probably order the springs and give some thought to how I want to mount them. My lower bumper stops/snubbers look ok. ZUK, do you think some sort of spring retainer would be useful, particularly when using the 12" springs? Or don't bother?

ZUK

iTrader: (1)

They are only necessary if you have a flex monster and you articulate it all the time....and you probably don't do that. If you use a rubber snubber on both ends then even if the coil looses tension and becomes loose, the snubbers will prevent then from falling out.
Not all rubber snubbers are created equal....some are "skinnier" than others and allow the coil to fully seat down onto the metal base which is preferred. Now, if anybody finds the Toyota part number for that snubber please post it in this thread. Thanks ZUK

flyingbrass

I found some QA1 2.5" springs for about $36 each that are a little lighter:

QA112-110 is 12" and 110 lbs.
QA114-95 is 14" and 95 lbs.

flyingbrass

It's called a "spring bumper." Part number for my 1986 is 48306-35080. The dealer I called said $69.56 and has to be ordered.

ZUK

iTrader: (1)

Good info on those lighter coils

Wow...those 'spring bumpers' are somewhat pricey....and that's for only one I think.

thook

I just hauled a trailer last week.......flat bed = 8'x12' with two fold up gates/ramps commonly used for hauling lawn equip.......loaded with 300-400lb of dog food and wooden fence panels.....10 @ 8'x10'.....for nearly 60 miles. Couldn't tell you how much weight exactly, but the panels were maybe 40-50lbs ea. and the trailer no idea. Had to use first gear on the big hills, so it was a work out for the 4cyl. BUT!!! the leaf packs weren't even completely flat. Nearly, but weren't. Ya mon! Good mod.....good mod!

Sorry.....no pics, though.

Alex 400

hahaha 1st gear! that's when you throw it in 4 wheel lo and and start splitting gears! I have done that getting started on steep hills with my grandpa's boat (~3000 pounds) 4lo, 1-4 revving 4th to about 4000 rpm, clutch, 4lo-4hi, trans to second, release clutch, takes about a second and a half. and puts second gear in the bottom of the power band.

haha I like to shift!