highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

Wanted to see about getting some suggestions on what to check for diagnosing my truck's current issue with the clutch/tranny.

First off, it's a 93, 22re with a W-56 manual trans. Tranny was completely rebuilt a couple years ago and only has like 5k on it. Clutch was also replaced at this time since the tranny was out. Everything seemed fine up until this morning. I hardly ever drive this truck anymore since I commute quite a ways and the truck hasn't been started or driven in about 3 weeks. When I parked the truck last time, everything seemed great and there were no issues. This morning, I decided that I wanted to take the truck to work because it hadn't been driven in a while and was disappointed that I had to take the Corolla after having some issues trying to get out of the driveway.

I was in a rush this morning so I didn't have time to check things out, but here's what happened: jumped in the truck with all my junk for the day and half asleep, went to start the truck. first thing i notice is that the truck lurched when I blipped the starter as if I were trying to start it in gear w/o using the clutch. since I nearly ran into my house on that one, I mashed the brakes and killed it. tried taking it out of gear to put it in neutral and was having an extremely difficult time doing so. let the truck roll backwards a couple feet and was able to finally get it out of gear and into neutral - can't remember if that was with or without the clutch pressed. started the truck up in neutral this time and then tried to put it in reverse, which was a no-go, just some gear grinding. figured maybe it needed to warm up a tad more, so I let it idle for a couple minutes then tried again without any luck. ended up giving up and taking the Corolla instead.

So I'm assuming this is some sort of clutch related issue where the clutch is not moving with the pedal. Wondering what some of you guys suggest checking out so I can get another Yota back on the road. I'm just so baffled that the truck was running great a couple weeks ago and it developed this issue from just sitting there.

buckwheat

Sounds like maybe your clutch system is out of fluid.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Fluid. Clutch pedal bracket might be broken.

:wabbit2:

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

I'll take a look at the pedal bracket first - read that this is a common issue? I do recall hearing an occasional squeak when I'd press the clutch pedal in during the past year. Never really thought much of it other than maybe it needed to be lubed so I guess it could be compromised.
I'll also check the fluid level to make sure there's enough. Might not get to all this until the weekend but now I at least have a place to start looking. Thanks guys.

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

ok, so today i had a chance to mess with things and still did not resolve the issue. checked under the dash and saw that my clutch bracket is fully intact - i can see why they'd break since it's made of VERY thin material.

when the clutch pedal was pressed, there was movement down at the slave cylinder/clutch fork, so i assumed everything was working fine but perhaps there wasn't enough pressure building up due to internal seal failure on either the clutch master or slave cyl. although there were no signs of external leakage.

Today I replaced both cylinders with brand new Napa parts and bled the system. Crossing my fingers, I started her up and tried to get into gear....problem still exists. I'm not sure where to look next so maybe someone can help. I wish this happened LAST MONTH instead of now because I just checked my 2yr warranty from when I had my tranny rebuilt and a new clutch put in, but it expired 12/15/10 they must have some sort of remote self destruct device that they use as soon as warranties expire.

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

was reading some other threads and saw that besides the master/slave cylinders going out, the next thing might be that the clutch has siezed onto the flywheel - though it's less likely.

not sure how to go about diagnosing this without dropping the tranny, which is something that I do not want to have to do. was thinking that maybe a couple attempted starts with the truck in 1st might work? whaddya think about that one?

dntsdad

Is your fork loose under there? You shouldnt be able to move it by hand. Perhaps it broke/came off. the nipple on the trans broke, etc.

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

^so I shouldn't really have any play at all in the clutch fork? I noticed some play in the up and down/vertical plane and wasn't sure if it should be present. I was able to move the fork by hand toward the slave cylinder, but was not really able to move it toward the rear of the truck (the direction the slave pushes it).

Might have to see if tranny shop will give me any love on honoring my warranty or pro-rate or something because in the 2yrs since the rebuild I've only put like 6k on it.

blocks

Keep checking the bracket. I had the exact samething as you. replaced the both cylinders, bled the piss out of it. the slave would move about 3/4-1", not enough to disengage the clutch. I finally surrendered and dropped it off at a moonlight mechanics garage. He ended up welding and extension to the bracket to give more movement on the master cylinder.

TNRabbit

You have to have the clutch DEPRESSED while checking the clutch bracket under the dash. A crack might not show otherwise.

sam333

Like what was said above ,watch the bracket while someone presses and releases the clutch repeatedly. It may be flexing with no cracks visible.

dntsdad

Maybe your isn't this bad but this could be starting to happen
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...linder-227014/

I agree on the bracket though. Give it another look with some sitting in the seat and repeatedly pressing in and out with your head and a good light under there..........preferably a female since it would be weird otherwise.

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

took the advice and looked at the bracket while my wife stomped the pedal - everything looks fine, no flexing or abnormalities. i'll try to see about examining the clutch fork a little more. not sure how one could see through the hole where the boot is at, maybe i could use a mirror and a flashlight.

on monday i'm going to call up the shop that did my tranny/clutch work and see if they'll cover it under warranty. the clutch work should have a lifetime parts warranty under normal operation. i'm assuming this would include everything internal to the tranny, which would include the clutch fork.

sam333

This can be caused by quite a few things , some mentioned. The squeaking could from be a bad throw out bearing( finally went). Ask what they replaced when they did your clutch. Your disc could also be sticking on the input shaft( corrosion from sitting or no grease when installed). Pressure plate fingers worn badly or broken. Fork worn or broken.
You should be able to shift trough all the gears easily when the engine is off, even when the clutch is not disengaged( if not your problem is in your linkage or trans).

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

alright, shop isn't going to give me any love on this one since they do the warranty work starting from the last date of payment, which was a few months before the 3rd time they rebuilt it - so i'm definitely past the labor warranty. they said they'll take a look at it for free, but no longer work with a local tow company, so i'd have to pay for that on top of an estimated $350 in labor to get me back on the road. i dunno if i wanna take it back to them. even though i got a pretty good deal on the tranny work before, they took forever to get it right on a very common vehicle, and now things have gone bad again in less than 6k miles, so screw them.

guess it's time to read up on dropping the tranny and doing some clutch work solo style in the driveway....that is unless some of you local guys like beer and um...nevermind ...if anyone wants to lend a hand, i'd be open to the help.


anyone have any links to somewhere with pics of how the clutch fork is physically attached inside? everything i've seen so far is either an exploded diagram drawing of individual parts or just the parts, but not of the connection. just trying to prep myself for making the job go faster so I can go wheeling.

fierohink

My guess is either the clutch system isn't totally bled of air or the clutch disc is frozen to the flywheel. you could gravity bleed your clutch for a while by yourself or pressure bleed with the help of someone else or a mityvac. Don't let the reservoiur run out of fluid or you'll be back at square one.

If rust is your problem... you could try reving up and down the motor, changing rpms radically and abruptly. That might free it up. Or with the truck off and in gear try rocking/pushing it back and forth to torque up the driveline.

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

clutch system has been bled very well using pressure method. made sure all the bubbles passed through and went until i got fresh fluid (old fluid was discolored). slave cylinder moves the clutch fork a good distance - i'll have to measure it, but it's maybe a little more than 1" of travel. the clutch fork seems to return to original position when the pedal is released, so i guess this is normal operation?

going to try starting the truck again with it in gear and see if something has frozen inside and needs some jolting to get back to normal. my assumptions lead me to thinking something has frozen inside, whether it be the clutch disk or pressure plate since the truck was running great until it sat for 3weeks. i think my truck is punishing me for neglecting to drive her very often.

read an old thread started by Wabbit over on Pirate where he was having basically the exact same issues that i am having. He ended up resolving the issue by starting the truck in 4th gear and was able to dislodge whatever was stuck internally. even though it would be a great learning experience to drop the tranny, i think trying this out first would be a wise decision before giving myself a couple hours work in the cold driveway. i think i'll attempt this sometime this week if not tonight.

sam333

Can you shift it through all the gears with the engine off?
Do you have a list or invoice of all the parts they replaced. Sounds like a crummy shop. What did they repace when they did your clutch/trans?

highonpottery

iTrader: (1)

Today I was able to get home before dark and mess with the truck. Problem is now solved. I believe he issue was the clutch being frozen to the flywheel. I thought that my original 5 attempts at starting/lurching with the truck in-gear would have broken the thing loose but I guess it needed more. I gave it 2 blips in 1st gear/stuck clutch and after the 2nd blip something broke loose and now things are back to normal. Just wish I tried doing this before I went and spent $80 on new hydraulic cylinders, but I guess it would have been a lot more if I took it in.

I tried to convince the wife that since I was ABOUT to spend a few hundred at a shop, that now I've gotta spend it on something else...like some new tires. Her comeback was WAY too fast, guilt-tripping me about paying off credit cards But now my truck runs again, so I'm happy. Who wants to go wheeling?