lalojamesliz

A few months ago I replaced the timing chain, did a valve job, had the head resurfaced, replaced the distributor with the vac advance and replaced the water pump/oil pump.
I replaced the dizzy when I found my original had a bad vacuum advance.
Once I installed that new to me dizzy I couldn't get my idle rpms below 1k. Before the new dizzy I could have it at 800rpm no problem. I messed with the carb not really knowing much about the needles and it drives OK but I've only driven this truck (87 22r 2wd California )a handful of times because I was worried I had a vacuum leak or my timing is off and I don't want to damage anything.
life happens and I haven't really had time to work on this truck (wife, 4 kids and a house to maintain ) but I miss driving it.
I just sprayed down the outside and inside of the carb with carb cleaner and didn't see a improvement. I've checked the timing marks twice and the cam mark is at 12 o clock when the crank pulley mark is at zero. I adjusted the valves correctly but I don't know what else to do.
The fuel level on the carb's sight glass is a little high. I didn't see any cracked vacuum lines and I cleaned the intake manifold gasket area the best I could.
I make a small video on the idle

lalojamesliz

Fuel level

when I unplug the distributors vacuum lines the timing is at zero, then when I plug them back in the timing is at about 8*

lalojamesliz

This wideband will go in very soon at the header collector

lalojamesliz

Welded up my o2/wideband bung, just need to wire it up. I also ordered a carb rebuild kit so I have the gasket when I take off the top and adjust the float to adjust the level in the bowl. I hope that takes care of my high idle

lalojamesliz

Hooked up the wideband today and at first when I started it, the rpms jumped to 2k and slowly came down to 1k the suddenly the engine bogged and died. Then re-started and it was ok.
The aem wideband was pegged out on the lean side at 18+ afr! I quickly turned out the idle mixture screw until it got to 14.8 - 15.1 and the engine idled so much smoother and after about a minute the afr's jumped back to 18+ ????
I couldn't get them back down with the mixture screw and if I would Rev the engine the afr's would drop to high 15's and climb back to 18+.

lalojamesliz

Well right before I started to dismantle my carb and install some new parts I decided to change the fuel filter since it was a much easier job.
Now my afr's are fine at idle even after 15min of idling and I can drop them into the 13's and lower possibly if I turn the mixture screw more. So my lean issue was a clogged fuel filter. The fuel that came out of the filter from the "in" side was almost like mud......wow.
My only problem now is my rpm's won't go lower than 1500 and if I unplug the vacuum lines to the vacuum advance it'll drop to 1200.
If I move the timing I can get it to 1k rpm but that can't be good for the engine.
Can my timing chain be off a tooth and still show 0* on the crank pulley?


I'm only posting my results incase some other newbie like me had a similarly issue and came across this since I don't have any replies.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

You are very on top of the situation (hence the lack of input), good job sir!

You can verify the valve timing by setting the crank to top dead center #1 cylinder entering the power stroke. Looking at the camshaft gear your dowel pin should match up with the crank key both at twelve.

You may need to verify the crank is at tdc, probe/scope the cylinder through the spark plug hole or remove the crank pulley. The pully may have broken loose from the shaft and rotated in the balancer.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

It's the first time a question mark has shown up that wasn't a substitute for "what the heck"..

lalojamesliz

Thank you and I'll try a rod/probe as my next attempt.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

does that mean you've already set the pully indicator to zero and verified the cam dowel?

lalojamesliz

I did. A couple times but I'm to check with a rod I have I used to wind my garage door spring with the piston this time.
I really hope it's just that.
so can the crank pulley show 0* with a timing gun if it's off a tooth on the chain by messing with the timing using the distributor?

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Do not confuse ignition timing and valve timing.

You wanted to verify the cam and crank were in the correct position relative to one another, this is called valve timing and controlled by the timing chain.

Ignition timing is controlled by the distributor stator wheel passing by he pickup coil inside the distributor housing, and how this junction relates to the distributor rotor position.

If not for the keyslot on the crankshaft the pulley balancer assembly can be placed on at any indicated clock angle. So whatever the fixed relationship between the crank and camshaft, valve timing, selected when the chain or belt is put in place has no bearing on the ignition.

I'm not sure that makes sense and is easy to follow..

OK if we take out the key from the crank shaft we can put the pulley assembly on with the timing mark facing the ground instead of sky. You following? Now we follow the directions to install the distributor. by aligning the timing mark on the pulley with the degree indicator on the timing cover then inserting the distributor so the rotor points to the #1 cylinder. Stil Following?

So every time the pulley lines up the distributor lines up and triggers spark. We're are firing "180° out" but it's indicating zero degrees if that's where the match mark was when the distributor was inserted. We could have put the pulley on at any position 45° for instance and followed the direction to line up the mark with the cover inserted the distributor and we would show perfect ignition timing but be 45° off.

Following?

Now if the keyslot, woodruff key, and pulley slot are all lined up at 12. We then go to tighten the crank shaft bolt, we put our long torque wrench on the bolt and hold the pulley in place, now apply the torque spec listed (something like 178ft/lbs), because the pulley balancer assembly is not a solid machined billet it can rotate. That is to say the pulley stays in place, because it's fixed to the earth via a long bar, while the crankshaft (and/or, center section of the balancer assembly) is not fixed to anything. We have just moved the relationship of the timing mark and crankshaft key.

So yes the timing mark on the pulley is no definite indicator of where the crank shaft key way is located.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Highly recommended not to put anything into the cylinders that is harder than the aluminum, use a rubber hose, wooden dowel, or a soft brass plug specially designed to locate pistons top dead center location.

lalojamesliz

Thanks for explaining that
I tried working on it again earlier. I verified the crank pulley was at 0* when the #1 cylinder was all the way up. I tried moving the distributor by removing it and re-installing it with the rotor in the next position.
I don't remember what way did what but moving it one way made it next to impossible to start and it would barley run with the throttle pedal way down and when moved the other way it would run but had a bad misfiring problem.
I just put it back to were it was.
Next time I work on it I'll remove the valve cover, set it on TDC and 0* on the crank then make sure the dot on the cam sprocket is at 12 o clock and the intake and exhaust rockers are loose.
If everything checks out then my next option is to replace the vacuum hoses and find a better way of checking the intake manifold gasket for leaks. I'm not crazy about spraying the mating surface with carb cleaner/starting fluid.
This crap sucks. To make things worse for me some lowlife thieves broke into my neighbors truck at 3am but he was awake and when the alarm went off he chased them off. They broke into another car in my neighborhood so now I'm keeping whatever car I'm not using in the garage and the truck outside. Moving 3 cars to get my truck in the garage is a pita

Naked Runner

You didn't happen to put an electric fuel pump on it? Just asking because a friend had the same problem after he did.. reason is on the Cam Drive Gear the fuel pump eccecrtric (actuator) is a spacer, the the 22re's use a camshaft thrust plate in place of it. you will not be able to turn the dist far enough to get the correct idle without it. if you did put an electric pump on, buy a camshaft thrust plate and put it on. here is a pic to show you. if not.. some nice useless info for you.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Sorry your are having theft issues, we put a lot of work into these and it's brutal how fast it can all be undone!!

another common misunderstanding.
Do not confuse the camshaft locating pin (dowel) with the indexing dot!

I can't post a photo, but someone else already has. (Thank you)

Note the relationship of the locating dowel pin, the indexing dot, and the cam sprockets teeth and groves.

The locating pin alignment with the valley, the indexing dot on a tooth.

The pin goes at 12, and the indexing mark will be just to the left.

You'll be fine using ether, the other (interior) side sees liquid hydrocarbons pretty constantly, but there are other options, if you're that concerned use an unlit torch or non-combustible gas.

...Excuse me while I sidetrack a bit
First my stupid question of the day. Does it matter that he might have been TDC but not on the compression stroke? As long the rotor is pointing near #1 plug wire my still asleep brain says no.

.... And a little food for thought to get the old brain fired up
The post above mentioned the mechanical fuel pump it's drive wheel and the spacer used by the injected engines. I never really thought about the relationship of the distributor drive wheel and it's distance from the front face of the camshaft.

Isn't the fuel pump wheel brass, or is that just my bad eyes and it's oil varnishing that makes me see them as a yellow (soft) metal? Even if they are stamped steel they are still on the thin side and suceptible to crush damage from either over torquing of the camshaft bolt or multiple reuse. How much difference does this make on the ignition timing if it's half as thick? How does the spacer, used on injector engines, handle over torque and reuse?

These are the sort of variables that make each engine unique and why we have to tune them as individuals...
...

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

1. How much was removed from the head? This effects the valve timing, because the cam is now closer to the crank, your camshaft will be rotated counter clockwise from where it was designed to be. There is a spec for max decking, but I don't know it of hand.
2. Is this a new or refurbished distributor? Do you still have the original, if so compare them for slight variations. Another member recently sourced a new distributor that turned out not to be the correct part. Verify the vacuum advance diaphragm is not "backwards".
3. I hope you took lots of clear photos and notes, you'll probably need to undo your changes.

lalojamesliz

Nope, no electric pump.

lalojamesliz

I don't remember what I used exactly as TDC on the cam gear but I'll check and take a picture when I remove the valve cover next.

lalojamesliz

I have a couple small propane single use bottles I was thinking of using them with the small torch attachment I have to check for leaks, that'll work good right?

When I was installing the head I remember something slipped and the chain location moved unfortunately but I set it with using the timing mark on the crank pulley.
So the two shiny links on the chain are not accurate but I know that.
Also after everything was back on, I tried to start it and it would not start. A fireball shot out of the carb and I had a feeling I had the distributor on 180* off so of took the distributor out and turned the engine over 180* then re-installed the distributor and it fired right up.

I think I still have my original distributor but I'm not sure.
I'll check in the morning when I get home if I can remember. The one I have now is a used one from ebay.

When I had the head shaved I asked and the guy just told me it only needed very little removed. Something like 8 thousands

Thank you so much Co_94_PU