Andy A

Went in to replace the valve cover gaskets as they were leaking pretty badly and decided to check all the valve clearances and adjust if necessary. First thing I noticed was that #6 intake lobe seemed to be more rounded than #1 & #4 intake lobes. Moved on to checking the exhaust clearances and kept rotating the crank waiting for #4 exhaust to come up and kept wondering where the hell the peak was. So #4 exhaust lobe is gone and when I say gone I mean totally gone!!!!!!


What the heck could cause something like this???????

First picture shows #6 intake being a little rounded, should be a nice peak.
Second picture shows what is left of #4 exhaust, not much.



I don't have the passenger side valve cover off yet but will be getting to it shortly to check those. Passenger side cam looks good all lobes intact. Update, passenger side #1 exhaust has lost approx. .18 in.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

What could cause that is the lobe not getting oil.

I have seen soft spots on cams over the years from time to time.

Andy A

What am I looking at here Wyoming??? Kind of clueless as where to start. I have never run into this type of situation before. What other type of damage may have been incurred by that valve not opening and closing properly???


That cam has approx. 45000 miles on it. Best case scenario is just a flat out bad camshaft.


Where is the feeder for the oil located? I know the bearing journals on the camshaft are drilled for oil and I assume there is some type of feeder that comes up thru the head to feed the cam journals.


There was definitely oil on those cam lobes and that compartment has oil in it which you can see from the pictures.


Did some reading and found out how the oil flows. The oil pump picks the oil up from the pan, pumps it into the oil filter then to the oil cooler. From the oil cooler it is fed to the front of the motor, from there it travels back to the rear of the block. The passage from the front of the block to the rear of the block feeds the crank and camshafts. The driver side camshaft is feed from the front to the rear. The passenger side camshaft is feed from the rear to the front. Camshafts are hollow with 2 holes in each bearing journal, which is where the lifters and cam lobes get there lubrication from.


So what I do know is that the drivers side camshaft was getting oil but do not know how to tell whether or not it was enough. Logic wants to tell me that if number #4 exhaust was not getting enough oil then #4 intake should have been affected also since the oil is fed to them from the same cam journal, but it wasn't. Same goes for #6.

osv

the problem now is did all of the lost metal residue damage the bearings and such in the engine?

since the valves are closed, you could run a compression test on it, if the numbers are weak for that, then a total rebuild is the only option... sorta removes the lost lobe issue as a factor.

Andy A

Thanks for the reply osv, definitely have a mess on my hands. That is allot of metal to lose. Hopefully the oil filter caught most of it but I doubt it.


Number 6 intake lost approx. .08 in of material also, all other lobes on the driver and passenger side measure in spec according to the FSM. Had to use a vernier caliper as I do not have a micrometer.


Have just been pondering this week on what to do. Will start to dig into it this weekend and hopefully find some answers. I definitely want to check the oil clearance on the cam bearing caps on that side and see if they are in spec.


Best case scenario is a defective camshaft, throw another one in and be done with it for awhile and hope for the best. I surely was not expecting to find that issue. I have already spent a substantial chunk of change rebuilding the rear end (axle bearings, seals, rebuilt carrier, leaf spring and shackle bushings) and a complete front end rebuild over the course of this winter and spring. Not complaining by any means as she is a 22 year old truck and things wear out. Really do need to get her back up and running though as quick as I can.


Cheers
Andy

osv

can you replace the camshaft without having to pull the head? can't do that with the 22re.

if the compression is weak, i'd be looking for a used motor to swap in there.

Andy A

Yes!!!


Camshafts have to be out to get at head bolts if removing the heads. Timing belt has to come off, timing belt sprocket, and distributor removed to get the camshafts out. Worst part of the job is breaking loose the cam bolt which holds the timing belt sprocket on.


Really curious as to the condition of the valve lifter shims on those 2 cylinders. From what I can see so far they look normal.

Will have to check our local part stores and see if they have any loaner compression testing tools. We are very limited in what is available automotive wise in my area.

The block that is in it now only has 145000 miles on it. The first one was replaced by Toyota under the head gasket campaign @10yrs old and 100000 miles.

Arrrrgh, raining today so cannot get anything done.


PS can anyone recommend a decent camshaft manufacture for the 3vze, seems we are limited in our choices. Toyota wants a fortune and one side, not sure which one has been discontinued. RockAuto has a few listed and there are some on eBay.


Cheers
Andy

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

If the bottom end was going to fail it would have by now.

I would guess there should be plenty of used cams all the 3.4`s replacing the 3.0

If I still had mine I would give them to you

I am curious what that plug looks like in that cylinder ??

Just how much can you afford to spend ??

Timing Belt goodies coming off Time for New while things are off??

These are the decisions only you can make.

Good Luck

Andy A

That is reassuring!!!!!

From the aftermarket it looks like I am going to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 to 150 on a replacement plus any shims needed for valve adjustment.

Awesome gesture, thanks would have been nice.

Weather looks good today so I will start tearing into her. Will shoot a picture of all the sparkplugs on that side and post it later.

Would like to spend nothing, but that's not going to happen!!!!!!!!! Honestly not sure at this point.


Yep!!! Will get new belt, camshaft, fuel pressure regulator, cam seal, cam plug, and thinking about having the injectors serviced. Considering a new oil pump also since I am unsure if the one on there has 145000 miles or 245000. Just a few of the things I can think about off the top of my head. All of the pullies were replaced when I did the last HG job at 200000 miles plus a number of other components.

Thanks, going to need all the luck I can get. Murphy's law seems to play an important part in my life for some reason!!!!!!


Cheers
Andy

Andy A

2, 4, 6


Numbers 2, 4, 6

cbr600rx7

excessive heat can cause crazy amounts of wear. And since the #6 cylinder is exposed to the most heat that kind of makes sense. Best bet is to just replace that camshaft with a new OEM one. I don't know if I would trust used 3VZE cams with some of the cracking and wear issues they have.

If the bottom end is still good I would not worry about it to much. Change the oil and filter when you install the new cam and then again after about 500-1000 miles and call it a day.

Just my 2 cents.

Hevster1

If you cannot afford a new OEM cam, I suggest trying a salvage yard or 2 for a pair of used OEM ones. 3VZ's are a dime a dozen. Bear in mind you will certainly need to completely readjust the valves with the proper size shims. Do not waste your time and money with aftermarket cams unless they are TRD. Also, and yes I know there are people here who will totally disagree, stay away from the crap you get from Auto Zone or Rock Auto, Advance etc. If it is a non essential part then maybe it will be alright. This especially holds true for steering and suspension parts which have the potential to kill you if they fail. Chinese crap is bad news.

cbr600rx7

Yota shop has some good prices on OEM cams. I think they are $120-$160 for the 3vze depending on the side and year.

The issue with bone yard cams is the time and effort it takes to remove them. And then you may find out all that time was worthless if the cam is worn or cracked. Just my 2 cents

Andy A

Thanks a million for all the help guys.


Hevster1
I could not agree more with your logic and try my best to abide by that philosophy, unfortunately OEM cams are approx. 500 ea. and it looks like one side has been discontinued. That is a hard pill to swallow.

cbr600rx7
Sent them an email asking who makes the cams they are selling. Looking to hear back from them.
Heard back from them, they are not OEM but made by a company called DNJ. Rockauto actually sells those for approx. 92 ea.


Looks like I will be replacing both. Thought I had measured all the lobes on the passenger side but I guess I missed one after rechecking them this morn. #1 exhaust is at approx. 1.70in so a loss of approx. .18in of material. Would like to find out the manufacturer of these camshafts, but I am coming up empty. The only markings I can see is a NNN stamp on them. Thought they were OEM when I got them and for the life of me I cannot remember where I got them from.

Hope to have the cams out by tomorrow, need a new breaker bar because my last one gave up the ghost on one of the upper control arm nuts.

The whole reason the original cams were replaced was because of the issue in the post below. It is a picture of another members cam but the same issue.


I am really tempted to clean up my old original ones the best I can, throw them back in and hope for the best.


Cheers
Andy

Andy A

Andy A

Ate into the shim on #4 pretty good. The lifter came out fairly easy but when I try to reinsert it takes allot more force to spin it vs all the others. This is the one that had the most cam lobe wear.

osv

that thing is garbage, why are you trying to reinsert it? look at the marks on the sides.

i assume that it rides in a bore, what does the surface of that bore look like? is it all carved up as well? the wear on that piece should tell you what could be happening to the bearings in the engine.

speaking in general, if you run used cams, you'll need to match the follower up to the specific lobe that it was run with, so you'll have to get everything, not just the camshafts.

if anything, i'd be looking for a reground cam set, that included reground lifters or shims or whatever weirdness comes with these 3slo engines... what does engbldr have?

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I dont know how to set the valves on a 3.0 but on a 22 I have seen where some one over tightened the valves causing the lobes to where/round the lobe. Someone not knowing how to set the valves maybe???

Hevster1

New lifters should go without saying. Shims should at least be in good condition if not new.
When you go to a salvage yard, remove the valve covers and inspect the cams. If they look ok I am sure they are. I have never seen one cracked or a bad lobe with an OEM cam. I have personally done at least 300 rebuilds/head gaskets on 3VZ engines.
You may want to consider doing a 3.4 swap. Then again, if money is a consideration it might be out of the question.

Andy A

This is going to be a long post so be for warned!!!


I want to give everyone a little back story on this truck.


Bought the truck new in 94 so it has been a one owner truck. In 2003 or 2004 I took the truck in to our local Toyota dealer to have the head gaskets replaced under the head gasket campaign. The truck at this time was approx. 10 years old and had 100000 miles on it. Toyota put a new short block in on their dime. I had Toyota put a new clutch in at that time since they already had the motor out, a new timing belt and water pump.


Truck ran great for the next 100000 miles and then popped another head gasket (passenger side). This was probably in 2012 or 2013 and approx. 200000 miles. When I tore into it to replace the head gaskets I found the passenger side camshaft with a chunk missing out of it just like in the picture a couple of posts up. So I decided it was best to replace the camshafts as a pair. I purchased what I thought were OEM camshafts. I also had the heads reworked (shaved, valves reground, etc). Replaced the timing belt and associated pullies, Ordered one of engbldr gasket kits along with head bolts. Put her back together and she ran fine until I got in the mess I am in now. The one mistake I really regret was when I got the heads back is I never checked the valve clearances and relied on the machine shop. Always check your valve clearances if you have the heads off the truck. Truck now has 242507 miles on it.


This past winter early spring I replaced all the bushings in the rear end(leaf springs, shackles), replaced the axle bearings and seals, and had the differential rebuilt.


Last month I started on the front end,
control arm bushings
tie rod assemblies
ball joints
idler arm
steering knuckle bushing & needle bearings
rotors
wheel bearings & seals
new boots on half shafts
All Toyota parts except for the control arm bushings which I went with poly & idler arm (Pro Forged)


Had one last thing to do before I took it in for an alignment after redoing the front end and that was to replace the valve cover gaskets because they were leaking. I thought while I had the valve covers off I would check the valve clearances. Good thing I did!!!!


Truck always started right up, idled fine, was down on power no doubt, oil pressure was fine according to the stock gauge.


Okay now that I got all that out of the way, thanks for listening and I will get back to the topic at hand.


Cheers
Andy