Calling all IFS guys with big tires- 35's and up!
11-22-2012, 01:51 PM
#1
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Calling all IFS guys with big tires- 35's and up!
Alrighty so deal is my 91 2door 4runner is getting a 4" procomp lift installed soon and will be on some 35"x12.50 toyo's. The big thing im curious about is the front end. Rear end will have a detroit locker coupled with 5.29's. But the front im unsure on what to do with it. Obviously have 5.29's but im not sure wether i want to lock it or leave it open?? So basically i need opinions on that matter.
Options ive thought of-
1. Remover ADD, add manual hubs, spool/welded diff. Strongest and problem free (besides cv carnage).
2. Remover ADD, keep fixed hubs, aussie locker. Problem is aussie lockers are appperently weak past 33's..?
3. Keep ADD, fixed hubs, open diff...
My main concern is without a locker getting a tire stuck while the other spins at twice the speed then when it grabs bye bye cv and i
.. Lol. Atleast with a locker that cant happen.
So lets hear some ideas! And ill stop this long post right here
Options ive thought of-
1. Remover ADD, add manual hubs, spool/welded diff. Strongest and problem free (besides cv carnage).
2. Remover ADD, keep fixed hubs, aussie locker. Problem is aussie lockers are appperently weak past 33's..?
3. Keep ADD, fixed hubs, open diff...
My main concern is without a locker getting a tire stuck while the other spins at twice the speed then when it grabs bye bye cv and i
.. Lol. Atleast with a locker that cant happen. So lets hear some ideas! And ill stop this long post right here
Last edited by 91_TOYOTA_4x4; 11-22-2012 at 01:56 PM.
11-22-2012, 03:11 PM
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If you want it to live, leave it open. Welding it is probably your worst option in a front end regardless of the rig. Drive smart and your CV breakage scenario won't really be an issue. I ran 35's, 4.10's with no lift on my truck for a few months, blasted a tooth off the pinion gear, dropped it back to 33's now and the whole thing works better.
The biggest strength issue in the 7.5 front end is the carrier, under heavy loads it deflects, which is why I lunched my ring and pinion (foot on the floor, 2nd gear low range all 4 spinnin to win). The only real answer to that is an ARB since it replaces the whole carrier, but I could solid axle a truck for about the cost of an ARB locker.
The biggest strength issue in the 7.5 front end is the carrier, under heavy loads it deflects, which is why I lunched my ring and pinion (foot on the floor, 2nd gear low range all 4 spinnin to win). The only real answer to that is an ARB since it replaces the whole carrier, but I could solid axle a truck for about the cost of an ARB locker.
11-22-2012, 04:35 PM
#3
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Sounds like you beat your truck pretty good lol. Nah im pretty nice to my truck as i DD it and i dont wanna trash a 2door 4runner. Problem i find most is ground clearance around here and 33's just dont cut it. My friends truck bottoms out the front end all the time. Atleast with 35's ill be a little higher and have a better approach.
Maybe i will just leave it open until i do a supra diff and custom cv's.
Maybe i will just leave it open until i do a supra diff and custom cv's.
11-22-2012, 04:57 PM
#4
75% of 4x4-ing skill is picking the right line for your vehicle.
I'd rock the 33's for a while and see how it goes.
35's and IFS are a time bomb. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
One local guy on CT4WD was replacing CV's and having to tighten the wheel bearings pretty regularly.
I'd rock the 33's for a while and see how it goes.
35's and IFS are a time bomb. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
One local guy on CT4WD was replacing CV's and having to tighten the wheel bearings pretty regularly.
11-22-2012, 05:07 PM
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I ran 35s on my IFS for ages, and beat the hell out of it with no issues. As for lockers, I would advise against one in the front. On my '85 I put 5.29's (which are really nice with 35s, a little high revs at highway speed though) with air lockers front and rear. With them locked, steering is a joke. You have horrible turning radius and all the tires want to do different things. Don't get me wrong, in a straight line or over an obsticle, they're amazing, but if the trail has a sharp turn, you wont get anywhere unless you get out and unlock your hubs. It's also really nice to have the axles locked at the flip of a switch, it makes the vehicle more predictably on and off road.
but I'm not trying to sell you the idea, just letting you know my experience. I rarely drive with them locked, just when I need it on an obsticle.
but I'm not trying to sell you the idea, just letting you know my experience. I rarely drive with them locked, just when I need it on an obsticle.
11-22-2012, 05:14 PM
#6
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Ive wheeled my buddies truck which is on 33's open an a 4" bracket and i know i want 35's 100%. And im pretty good at picking lines and getting my truck through tight trails without even a spotter. Actually why i have no dents while all my friends have dents lol. Ive also changed cv's before and its actually really easy to change even on a river bed haha. Point is im aware of the weakness in the cv department just the 7.5 im not so sure on its strength. Alot of people say lock it and others say dont so thats all im really after.
Regardless its going to be on 35's. After a couple years of changing cv's and blown up diffs i will sas it anyway.
Regardless its going to be on 35's. After a couple years of changing cv's and blown up diffs i will sas it anyway.
11-28-2012, 07:29 AM
#7
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I've had numerous rigs with different setups...
Are you dead set on sticking with the IFS? regearing is a lot of money to throw at a turd. I have 4.10s and 35s and it works fine with enough motor mods (cam, exhaust, header, intake, AFM) although when the motor was stock it sucked really, really badly though. If I were you I would do the minimal lift to get 35s on there, weld up the rear, and do some motor mods. Then later on SAS it and regear with Detroits.
Also you don't need a 4" lift for 35s. I just run ball joint spacers, cruiser coils and minimal fender trimming coupled with washers under the bumps stops and some bump stop spacers welded to the rear axle inside the coil springs. When you lift that much you raise your COG which actually works against you if you are wheeling hard. I would rather have a low COG and meat on the ground than high COG and lots of flex. depends on the terrain though too.
35s w/ 1.5" of BJ spacer lift. Very minimal trimming. You can't even tell I trimmed the fenders from a distance
85runner with detroits. wheeled exteremely well... until Reiter closed
ranger.. welded F/R. had to run with one hub unlocked most of the time so I could turn
BroncoII.. probably the best wheeling rig I have ever had.. welded rear, open front, stock gears and 37s. Dump the clutch and all four would definitely spin
I prefer the driving of a welded rear over anything except that it wears tires out faster. It is much more predictable and stronger.
In my 94 runner I have 35s and an aussie locker in the rear, open front 4.10s. To overcome the open front you just rev it up and pop the clutch in and out, it spins all 4 usually all the time.
Are you dead set on sticking with the IFS? regearing is a lot of money to throw at a turd. I have 4.10s and 35s and it works fine with enough motor mods (cam, exhaust, header, intake, AFM) although when the motor was stock it sucked really, really badly though. If I were you I would do the minimal lift to get 35s on there, weld up the rear, and do some motor mods. Then later on SAS it and regear with Detroits.
Also you don't need a 4" lift for 35s. I just run ball joint spacers, cruiser coils and minimal fender trimming coupled with washers under the bumps stops and some bump stop spacers welded to the rear axle inside the coil springs. When you lift that much you raise your COG which actually works against you if you are wheeling hard. I would rather have a low COG and meat on the ground than high COG and lots of flex. depends on the terrain though too.
35s w/ 1.5" of BJ spacer lift. Very minimal trimming. You can't even tell I trimmed the fenders from a distance
85runner with detroits. wheeled exteremely well... until Reiter closed
ranger.. welded F/R. had to run with one hub unlocked most of the time so I could turn
BroncoII.. probably the best wheeling rig I have ever had.. welded rear, open front, stock gears and 37s. Dump the clutch and all four would definitely spin
I prefer the driving of a welded rear over anything except that it wears tires out faster. It is much more predictable and stronger.
In my 94 runner I have 35s and an aussie locker in the rear, open front 4.10s. To overcome the open front you just rev it up and pop the clutch in and out, it spins all 4 usually all the time.
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11-28-2012, 09:00 AM
#8
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I would remove that ADD ASAP its an easy mod to do. I would get a front chunk from a V6 or a 22RET to get a bit stouter front chunk or just break down and do the SAS swap. Im not a fan of welding up a rear end because if anything goes wrong then you have to start from square 1 all over again. That just my $.02
11-28-2012, 03:05 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
I've had numerous rigs with different setups...
Are you dead set on sticking with the IFS? regearing is a lot of money to throw at a turd. I have 4.10s and 35s and it works fine with enough motor mods (cam, exhaust, header, intake, AFM) although when the motor was stock it sucked really, really badly though. If I were you I would do the minimal lift to get 35s on there, weld up the rear, and do some motor mods. Then later on SAS it and regear with Detroits.
Also you don't need a 4" lift for 35s. I just run ball joint spacers, cruiser coils and minimal fender trimming coupled with washers under the bumps stops and some bump stop spacers welded to the rear axle inside the coil springs. When you lift that much you raise your COG which actually works against you if you are wheeling hard. I would rather have a low COG and meat on the ground than high COG and lots of flex. depends on the terrain though too.
35s w/ 1.5" of BJ spacer lift. Very minimal trimming. You can't even tell I trimmed the fenders from a distance
85runner with detroits. wheeled exteremely well... until Reiter closed
ranger.. welded F/R. had to run with one hub unlocked most of the time so I could turn
BroncoII.. probably the best wheeling rig I have ever had.. welded rear, open front, stock gears and 37s. Dump the clutch and all four would definitely spin
I prefer the driving of a welded rear over anything except that it wears tires out faster. It is much more predictable and stronger.
In my 94 runner I have 35s and an aussie locker in the rear, open front 4.10s. To overcome the open front you just rev it up and pop the clutch in and out, it spins all 4 usually all the time.
Are you dead set on sticking with the IFS? regearing is a lot of money to throw at a turd. I have 4.10s and 35s and it works fine with enough motor mods (cam, exhaust, header, intake, AFM) although when the motor was stock it sucked really, really badly though. If I were you I would do the minimal lift to get 35s on there, weld up the rear, and do some motor mods. Then later on SAS it and regear with Detroits.
Also you don't need a 4" lift for 35s. I just run ball joint spacers, cruiser coils and minimal fender trimming coupled with washers under the bumps stops and some bump stop spacers welded to the rear axle inside the coil springs. When you lift that much you raise your COG which actually works against you if you are wheeling hard. I would rather have a low COG and meat on the ground than high COG and lots of flex. depends on the terrain though too.
35s w/ 1.5" of BJ spacer lift. Very minimal trimming. You can't even tell I trimmed the fenders from a distance
85runner with detroits. wheeled exteremely well... until Reiter closed
ranger.. welded F/R. had to run with one hub unlocked most of the time so I could turn
BroncoII.. probably the best wheeling rig I have ever had.. welded rear, open front, stock gears and 37s. Dump the clutch and all four would definitely spin
I prefer the driving of a welded rear over anything except that it wears tires out faster. It is much more predictable and stronger.
In my 94 runner I have 35s and an aussie locker in the rear, open front 4.10s. To overcome the open front you just rev it up and pop the clutch in and out, it spins all 4 usually all the time.
I know allot about what i want after years of contemplating on what i want to build and how i want to build it. I am dead set on 35's and 4" bracket lift for now. I already got the lift too so why not as i got it for 300 bucks with everything front an back even got the guys old knuckles and LCA's lol. But the reason why im doing a 4" over just keeping it low is i always found myself getting high center'd and it drives me nuts. My old truck (std cab 22re) was a little high than stock, open, with 31" muds. it had great traction, very stable, but just too low that it would get bottom out to easy for were i wheel. anyways i knew i wanted to lift it and be on 35's since then.
now i have my 4runner and i DD allot more than i go wheeling so IFS just makes more sense. ive driven a 87 sas'd 4runner on 37's welded front an back and it was a disaster to drive on the street. super slow, tons of body roll, brakes barely could stop it, and most of all drove like you had no suspension lol. then i drove my friends truck - 90 std cab, 4" bracket, 2" BL, open, 33"s. way to high for 33's but it works.i love to drive it and he lets me wheel it too so i have a really good idea of what i want by now. i mean you can still drive it like a mad man like my mr2 and its just as fun if not more lol. cant do that with sas plus sas is an easy 2x's or more to do. oh and funny thing is his truck is actually very stable. so many times i thought we were going to flop and it blows me away every time!
So anyway 35x12.50's, 4" procomp lift, sliders, rear tube bumper, 5.29's, rear detroit, front add removal, manual hubs. im going to run it on the 4.56's open for a bit just to see how it is especially in 4 low which i have a chain case which is lower geared than a gear driven so maybe it wont be too bad. My 3vze has pretty good power too running 12 degrees advanced an has no problem hauling some ayus haha so it may not be too bad. actually if its not bad i may do a r151 swap and dual case it so i have some good 4low gearing with the 4.56's but we will see.
Last edited by 91_TOYOTA_4x4; 11-28-2012 at 03:12 PM.
11-28-2012, 09:05 PM
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Yup. I've had folks ask me about why their air locker isn't working, I usually tell them it's a Detroit issue. They usually answer their own question shortly after they reply "I don't have a Detroit, I have an ARB". They're neat, and when they're working great, they're the bee's knees for sure but my welded rear works 100% of the time, no switch/compressor/air lines needed.
11-28-2012, 11:16 PM
#13
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Yeah man same thats all i hear about them. Just not worth the time though they do make them for ifs 7.5's which is kinda cool.
I just need to find somebody who makes customs cv shafts so i can get some made at a decent price for a supra 8" then im set!
I just need to find somebody who makes customs cv shafts so i can get some made at a decent price for a supra 8" then im set!
11-28-2012, 11:35 PM
#14
There is not one right answer for everyone, it depends on numerous factors
-the type of wheeling, snow, rocks, mud, desert
-the type of driver you are. crawler or balls to the wall standing the gas pedal
I run 35" MTRS with an auto/4:88s, manual hubs and an lockrite up front. With this setup, it's hard to make tight turns on the trail and I find myself having to switch between 2WD and 4WD to relieve drivetrain binding. I can't even imagine your second option, without being able to lockout your hubs and having a locker up front, it would be a HUGE pain steering on asphalt!
The real problem with running 35s is the stock steering. Since I've upgraded to 35s I've snapped a few CVs (a few cases and snapped one right inside my wheel bearing), popped a tie-rod out of it's socket and snapped a idler arm in half. That being said, I'm saving up for a Total Chaos idler arm and always carry extra tie rod ends and CV axles.
-the type of wheeling, snow, rocks, mud, desert
-the type of driver you are. crawler or balls to the wall standing the gas pedal
I run 35" MTRS with an auto/4:88s, manual hubs and an lockrite up front. With this setup, it's hard to make tight turns on the trail and I find myself having to switch between 2WD and 4WD to relieve drivetrain binding. I can't even imagine your second option, without being able to lockout your hubs and having a locker up front, it would be a HUGE pain steering on asphalt!
The real problem with running 35s is the stock steering. Since I've upgraded to 35s I've snapped a few CVs (a few cases and snapped one right inside my wheel bearing), popped a tie-rod out of it's socket and snapped a idler arm in half. That being said, I'm saving up for a Total Chaos idler arm and always carry extra tie rod ends and CV axles.
11-28-2012, 11:48 PM
#16
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Thread Starter
Yep i always have a spare cv with me even on 31's though i know its solid on 31's.
I dont really beat on my truck, i choose my lines well and try and crawl as much as possible though hear and there a little power is needed haha. Im really not worried about snaping cv's. Though i know the idler arms go often so i will buy a total chaos one as soon as i can.
Diddnt think tie rod ends would go so easy? Is there anyway we can upgrade them?
About the true trac detroit. Do you run one in the front zpd? I was thinking about one for the back but figured screw it a auto locker with some heavyer oil would make it pretty good for street driving. Oh and i thought u cant get a detroit in a 7.5?
I dont really beat on my truck, i choose my lines well and try and crawl as much as possible though hear and there a little power is needed haha. Im really not worried about snaping cv's. Though i know the idler arms go often so i will buy a total chaos one as soon as i can.
Diddnt think tie rod ends would go so easy? Is there anyway we can upgrade them?
About the true trac detroit. Do you run one in the front zpd? I was thinking about one for the back but figured screw it a auto locker with some heavyer oil would make it pretty good for street driving. Oh and i thought u cant get a detroit in a 7.5?
Last edited by 91_TOYOTA_4x4; 11-29-2012 at 12:19 AM.
11-29-2012, 01:25 AM
#17
Yes I Have a Detroit locker in rear and the true trac in front. I got the 7.5 up front on my t100 I think.
I like the true trac, It lets you turn but when your on the gas you are fully locked pretty much. Still hard to maneuver if you have to power through something while making a turn but better than a locker.
I have a friend who has true tracs front and rear and loves them on his bronco 2.
If your worried about street driving the true trac will be pretty good. you shouldnt notice it unless you hammer down in a turn. With my locker in the rear I just let off the gas while turning and it goes click click click but I still eat tires. True tracs dont really kill tires that bad I dont think.
With my set up street driving in 4x4 is not really possible, I would love to have a electric selectable locker up front for snow and stuff. And a electric one in the rear for daily driving.
I like the true trac, It lets you turn but when your on the gas you are fully locked pretty much. Still hard to maneuver if you have to power through something while making a turn but better than a locker.
I have a friend who has true tracs front and rear and loves them on his bronco 2.
If your worried about street driving the true trac will be pretty good. you shouldnt notice it unless you hammer down in a turn. With my locker in the rear I just let off the gas while turning and it goes click click click but I still eat tires. True tracs dont really kill tires that bad I dont think.
With my set up street driving in 4x4 is not really possible, I would love to have a electric selectable locker up front for snow and stuff. And a electric one in the rear for daily driving.
Last edited by Zpd426; 11-29-2012 at 01:28 AM.
11-29-2012, 03:22 PM
#18
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Thread Starter
Yes I Have a Detroit locker in rear and the true trac in front. I got the 7.5 up front on my t100 I think.
I like the true trac, It lets you turn but when your on the gas you are fully locked pretty much. Still hard to maneuver if you have to power through something while making a turn but better than a locker.
I have a friend who has true tracs front and rear and loves them on his bronco 2.
If your worried about street driving the true trac will be pretty good. you shouldnt notice it unless you hammer down in a turn. With my locker in the rear I just let off the gas while turning and it goes click click click but I still eat tires. True tracs dont really kill tires that bad I dont think.
With my set up street driving in 4x4 is not really possible, I would love to have a electric selectable locker up front for snow and stuff. And a electric one in the rear for daily driving.
I like the true trac, It lets you turn but when your on the gas you are fully locked pretty much. Still hard to maneuver if you have to power through something while making a turn but better than a locker.
I have a friend who has true tracs front and rear and loves them on his bronco 2.
If your worried about street driving the true trac will be pretty good. you shouldnt notice it unless you hammer down in a turn. With my locker in the rear I just let off the gas while turning and it goes click click click but I still eat tires. True tracs dont really kill tires that bad I dont think.
With my set up street driving in 4x4 is not really possible, I would love to have a electric selectable locker up front for snow and stuff. And a electric one in the rear for daily driving.
Anyway does the true trac use a new carrier like the locker?
Street driving should be fine with the locker out back and lsd up front. We only get on average a week if snow on the ground anyway so i can limp it around in snow.
I actually have a friend with a sas'd 87 on 37's dual cased and has e-lockers front an back. Street driving is pretty smooth for it but he has never locked the diffs with me so i have no idea how it is. On the other hand my moms 04 Jeep Rubicon 4" lift an 35's has e-lockers and they work pretty good. I used them once and its amazing how well they work and i noticed how hard it was to steer too though it wasnt too bad. I would do e lockers but only if i could front and back so maybe later with sas lol.
11-29-2012, 04:44 PM
#20
Contributing Member
Yup. I've had folks ask me about why their air locker isn't working, I usually tell them it's a Detroit issue. They usually answer their own question shortly after they reply "I don't have a Detroit, I have an ARB". They're neat, and when they're working great, they're the bee's knees for sure but my welded rear works 100% of the time, no switch/compressor/air lines needed.
