Broke down in the '86 yesterday...gathering input - Page 3

TNRabbit · 01-17-2008, 11:12 AM

Hang in there, Matthew. I'm here for morale support if nothing else...you were there for me when I went thru all my with my 3vze last year....

I feel your pain about the cold (my knuckles ache from your description!); I HATE working on a vehicle when it's cold outside, unless I'm in a heated garage at the time....

You can clean the injectors out yourself with a length of rubber hose that fits over the top of the injector & some T/B cleaner. Fill the hose with the cleaner, apply pressure with a balloon blown up over the end of the hose, then apply 9 volt battery to the terminals of the injector in a "chattering" fashion (holding too long will burn up the injector electronics). This will run the cleaner thru injector and works great! Of course, it requires three hands... I blew into mine, but the balloon idea came later (tastes like HELL!)

Good Luck & clear/warm skies!

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thook · 01-17-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcg9381

First I understand the budget issue. If you don't have it, you don't have it.

I didn't understand how donations for the animals meant money for the truck, though.. It's probably better that I don't understand.

At least have the bores checked. It's true that they could be fine and it's also true that they could be worn in the middle - it can go either way. By checking it you'll get some peace of mind and be able to make an educated decision. You can ask the best engine builders in the world for advice, but it's still better to check your core!

Last I checked, cylinder boring was around $20/cyl. IE - less than the cost of a cam on 4 cyl. I know this would add in the cost of new pistons, but you're talking under $300 for a complete rebuild kit (with pistons) from engnbdlr.
Under $500 is cheap for a rebuild.. :-)

It's true that some people just slap a new set of rings in there and go - I think most of that comes from the old pushrod V8 days. I've seen Chevy 305s run with cam lobes completely ground off. You'll also note that those motors don't typically make 200k miles like a 22R series.

Injectors, although ugly - usually don't come back clogged up in my experience. There are some exceptions of course. If I was on a budget, I'd skimp on the injector cleaning and apply that money to other things.

If you do get them cleaned, witchunter replaces all the rubber and pintle caps as part of his fee. It's generally a value over other cleaning services. The darn rubber gaskets at toyota will end up costing you a fortune if you go OEM.. I *think* they're included in engnbldr's kits though....

Cam hp: Dyno runs I've seen show peak hp improvement in the 3-5hp range. The good news is that you'll get that improvement across the RPM range with a good cam...

Good luck on your rebuild!

In non-profit organizations....even small ones like ours....things like vehicles can be considered a business expense. That equates also to tax exemption. Money is money and it always comes. I trust that we're always provided for by the creator, universe, etc....whatever one wants to call It...but, I've also learned to be frugal, not wasteful, and spend unnecessarily. It's all energy exchange. Of course, I make mistakes, but I really try to be careful about it. We don't know when or where financial support will come from, so we still have to play the game of balance. If I can bypass something unneccessary I will and at the same not skimp/cut corners. That is possible, ya know. I mean, I've already had people suggesting an entirely different motor...used or new. Is that really necessary? No. Besides, if it's any indication, you can still clearly see the crosshatching on the cylinder walls.

The shop where my vehicle is at the moment....plus Don Clarke who's less than a mile from there....all have experience when it comes to blocks and what not. I'll have it checked from there.....for free. Honestly, when it comes down to it, we do what we have to do, but if don't HAVE to spend $300 more I won't just because someone's opinion says I SHOULD. $300 would help fund our Hawaii vacation, anyway....

(Ha....I've not had a vacation in almost ten years! And so what....

)

After talking with the machine shop having explained everything going on....and getting best advice and possible scenarios....I'm looking at right around $240.75 minus tax. This is for complete bottom and top end gasket set (minus headbolts....reusing them, even after debating) plus all new valves and any head work. That even includes getting out the busted exhaust manifold stud. Not bad, eh? I'm going with their gasket set because they use Hasting's rings and Fel-Pro gaskets. I know there has been debate about Fel-Pro, but honestly this shop's reputation is equal to their quality of work. They did a fantastic job on the heads for my '92. If that's anything to go by, the parts they use would be trustworthy. They've never had problems with the Fel-Pro on the 22r's. (And neither has the shop where my truck is....nor Don Clarke) Anyway, going through them means they prefer to use the parts they supply and that saves me on shipping. Which means...YEAH MAN!!!...I have to dough to get the injectors rebuilt.

The place where I'm sending them is the place I mentioned already. I corresponded with the fellow via email sometime back, so I still have the business' name and service info. He/they do the same thing Witchhunter does. As I recall, Witchhunter was about twice the cost.....reputation all the same, though.

The cam is in great shape. It stays stock as will the valves. From talking with aformentioned persons, it's unlikely the head will need to be linebored. But, in the end, we'll see and plans may changed accordingly.

Do what you gotta do, when you can if you can.

thook · 01-17-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNRabbit

Hang in there, Matthew. I'm here for morale support if nothing else...you were there for me when I went thru all my with my 3vze last year....

I feel your pain about the cold (my knuckles ache from your description!); I HATE working on a vehicle when it's cold outside, unless I'm in a heated garage at the time....

You can clean the injectors out yourself with a length of rubber hose that fits over the top of the injector & some T/B cleaner. Fill the hose with the cleaner, apply pressure with a balloon blown up over the end of the hose, then apply 9 volt battery to the terminals of the injector in a "chattering" fashion (holding too long will burn up the injector electronics). This will run the cleaner thru injector and works great! Of course, it requires three hands... I blew into mine, but the balloon idea came later (tastes like HELL!)

Good Luck & clear/warm skies!

Thank you much, Gary. I'm actually quite upbeat about the whole thing. No sense in a furrowed brow with things like this. No fun in that....

I'm looking at the whole thing as an adventurous challenge. Life's too short to not look for the silverlining. Some people spend their whole lives and never look for it. Me...I'm going to come out with a squeaky clean zoom, zoom. It's just a vehicle, but it's also life and what we make of it...big or small, bad or good....is entirely up to us. I'm going to enjoy myself, thank you.....

The sun is out today. Good day for splitting wood.

Thanks all.

thook · 01-17-2008, 12:13 PM

Oh.....Gary, thanks for the injector cleaning tip. I will remember that one for the future. Might save me $90 against the "professional" cleaning I've had before. For that, I've could have had them rebuilt. Lesson learned.

thook · 01-17-2008, 12:34 PM

This is the injector service I mentioned:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...TQ:MOTORS:1123
Looks like their price has gone up a bit since I last checked. There's a place in the same town of the machine shop I'm going to call and check with. Consolidate a bit more.

thook · 01-17-2008, 12:40 PM

Nope....they only do diesel injectors. Mr. Injector it is.

TNRabbit · 01-17-2008, 01:31 PM

Do they replace all the injector gaskets? Those will cost a damn mint by themselves...

thook · 01-17-2008, 04:57 PM

Which injector gaskets are those, Gary?

Here's what the ebay ad states:

The injectors are cleaned and tested on the ASNU flow bench and ultrasonic cleaning machine. After cleaning new filter baskets, o-rings, spacers and pintel caps are installed. They are returned with a before and after flow report.

I will ask him, though....if I knew what gaskets you're talking about...

thook · 01-17-2008, 04:59 PM

Wait....are you talking about the ones with the groove in the middle of the injectors just before it widens? I guess where it fits into the fuel rail?

TNRabbit · 01-17-2008, 06:53 PM

Sorry, I meant o-rings/pintle caps. It probably wouldn't hurt to replace the o-rings around the outside of the bakelite cup they sit in, either.

thook · 01-18-2008, 12:37 AM

I can't imagine someone offering a rebuild service and not replacing everything that would potentially wear from use and age. I'll bet everything is replaced. I've not done it yet, but I'll ask.

TNRabbit · 01-18-2008, 03:28 AM

i guess my point was for what you would pay for the o-rings, etc., you can pay someone else to do everything...

At least we got out post count up! ;-)

pete f · 01-18-2008, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thook

Hehe...haha...lol! Yes, it's definitely been cold enough. Enough so that the finger tips are in pain turning nuts and bolts by hand. The shivering I can deal with, but the finger tips?.... Mommy!

Fortunately, tomorrow will be in the 50's with sunny skies. I can finish the tear down then.

Enggg.....after thinking about it more I'm probably just going leave the bottom end alone. What I mean is, I do not have enough money for block work, also. "Not that much" is relative. Remember, tortis, alot of my funding is from the donations we receive for the animals. The injectors are probably in "worse" shape than the rings and cylinders. Good compression does mean things are good = it ain't broke....does it not? And you know what they say....

So, in other words, if I'm going to spend any more money....and reeeaally stretch my budget...I'd rather get the injectors rebuilt. Those seem to be fairly important, too.

Hey Matthew,
This is a great thread for knowledge and Thook's way of looking at things. Only posting to tell you keep up the good work.
my 2 cents is put a tent over your truck. I zipped tied 2 tarps together then zipped them to the rack on the cap. It knocked the wind out and keep me dry when it was raining.Up here I use a kiddy plastic sled as a creeper for work under the truck.
I'm here for moral support and an education.

YotaJunky · 01-18-2008, 06:23 AM

I don't mind working in the cold, as long as it's not winding/breezy. Just listening to you makes me shiver.... and I'm a Canuck...

thook · 01-18-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YotaJunky

I don't mind working in the cold, as long as it's not winding/breezy. Just listening to you makes me shiver.... and I'm a Canuck...

Fortunately, this winter has overall been mild. My truck just happens to break down during a rash of cold snaps. Go figure! Last Jan. was worse, though. That's when my clutch went out.

thook · 01-18-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete f

Hey Matthew,
This is a great thread for knowledge and Thook's way of looking at things. Only posting to tell you keep up the good work.
my 2 cents is put a tent over your truck. I zipped tied 2 tarps together then zipped them to the rack on the cap. It knocked the wind out and keep me dry when it was raining.Up here I use a kiddy plastic sled as a creeper for work under the truck.
I'm here for moral support and an education.

That sled/creeper idea is great, Pete. Wish I'd have thought of that last winter. I was using a big piece of plywood that had this thin layer of ice on it from light precip (where/how the hell was I going to thaw it?) I had to use wheel chocks to keep the creeper from sliding around until I wanted it to. Right now, I've been using a couple of thick pieces of carpeting to insulate me from the ground. It works well!!!

I've done the tarp tent before when I had to work in the rain. That was when I rebuilt the top end of the '92. That was such a pain. It wasn't easy to keep things or myself dry from rain spray. Wasn't a heavy rain, but still. Anyway, I vowed I will not work in the rain on this one. But, next time....if it's windy...I will certainly do it even though I may get some funny looks and wise cracks. I have a roof rack to tie in to, also.

thook · 01-18-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNRabbit

i guess my point was for what you would pay for the o-rings, etc., you can pay someone else to do everything...

At least we got out post count up! ;-)

Ah yes! The important things...

I got the injectors unhooked last night after hauling hay. Stopped on my way home. They are very, very dirty. I'm curious to see the flow charts once they're done. I'm also curious to see how it will affect the mileage. I was getting on average 18-19mpg. ONCE I got 20 on a tank. Maybe that will be the new average....or better.

pete f · 01-18-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thook

That sled/creeper idea is great, Pete. Wish I'd have thought of that last winter. I was using a big piece of plywood that had this thin layer of ice on it from light precip (where/how the hell was I going to thaw it?) I had to use wheel chocks to keep the creeper from sliding around until I wanted it to. Right now, I've been using a couple of thick pieces of carpeting to insulate me from the ground. It works well!!!

I've done the tarp tent before when I had to work in the rain. That was when I rebuilt the top end of the '92. That was such a pain. It wasn't easy to keep things or myself dry from rain spray. Wasn't a heavy rain, but still. Anyway, I vowed I will not work in the rain on this one. But, next time....if it's windy...I will certainly do it even though I may get some funny looks and wise cracks. I have a roof rack to tie in to, also.

My sled has small lip on the sides. When I was working on my cat during the thaw I was working in a puddle and the sides kept the water out. I use it to slide the wood for our wood stove from the wood pile. I think I paid $7.00 at ace hardware.

thook · 01-19-2008, 08:09 AM

The things we'll do for a vehicle...hehe. Crazy.

Nothing new to report today. Won't be for a few days, of course. Glad I'm not working on the truck, though. It was a little over 20* this morning. Had to drag some firewood down the hill when I got up. My fingertips felt like they'd just been smacked with a hammer....even with gloves on.

I was thinking this morning, and even a day or two ago, if the bolts hadn't backed out of the guides I could have easily made it until Spring to replace the chain.......probably even longer. I'll look more closely, but as far as I can tell there just isn't that much wear on the guides. There's roughly 80k miles (don't remember exactly what the od reading was at the first change out) on this chain. I'm going to still change out, course. No sense in not since I already have everything and considering the job it is. But, I'm going to check the stretch wear on the chain just out of curiosity. My wife is threatening to write a letter to the guy that did my first chain.....who is also partly responsible for this. Not to chew him out, "repremand", or seek retribution....nothing immature like that. Just to let him know so he's more careful next time. That doesn't mean I or my wife didn't have ANY ill feelings, but nothing is gained by spreading them either.

I was also thinking the day this whole thing happened part of the sound I heard....."the snap".....aside from the starter...was probably the bolt letting loose and being flung around inside the timing cover. It's neither here nor there.....just thinking outloud.

Anyway, have any of you (or anyone at all) ever replaced the vacuum lines on a 22re? I'm hunting down the hose to do right now, and so far all I can turn up is rolls in certain lengths. I just don't know how much I should get and in what sizes. I may wind up having to measure them all out and such, but thought I'd ask and maybe save myself the task.

TNRabbit · 01-19-2008, 08:13 AM

If your vacuum lines are all the same diameter, buy in bulk & cut to fit as you replace them.

thook · 01-19-2008, 09:02 AM

That's just it. Not all of them are the same diameter, although the majority of them are. They have rolls at O'Reilly for cheap and.....since I know them....they will probably just sell me whatever I need of whatever size and I won't have to get any more than that. That's my intention, anyway.

tortis · 01-20-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thook

That's just it. Not all of them are the same diameter, although the majority of them are. They have rolls at O'Reilly for cheap and.....since I know them....they will probably just sell me whatever I need of whatever size and I won't have to get any more than that. That's my intention, anyway.

that is what i did. stood in the parking lot at o'rielly's and measured the hoses of that diameter, cut, install, on to next size. i didn't think to right it down because i knew i would be selling the 4runner. sorry.

thook · 01-21-2008, 11:13 AM

Cylinder head is off to the shop today. They said it should take about two or three days max. I had my friend who lives closer to Ft. Smith (where the head shop is) and has a grooming kennel business there take it for me. So, when it's all done, he'll return it along with the gasket and ring kits. Won't be until next weekend, though....probably. We'll see it works out. Gives me a chance to work on my other 4rnr. And, besides, it'd be a good idea to wait until I have the rings and gaskets to pull the motor block and service it. Maybe I can have it out and back in in one day. Oh...for that matter...I can start cleaning parts and bolts and maybe get some painting done.

Thanks, tortis. No need for apologies. I'll just take my measurements go from there.

pete f · 01-21-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thook

Cylinder head is off to the shop today. They said it should take about two or three days max. I had my friend who lives closer to Ft. Smith (where the head shop is) and has a grooming kennel business there take it for me. So, when it's all done, he'll return it along with the gasket and ring kits. Won't be until next weekend, though....probably. We'll see it works out. Gives me a chance to work on my other 4rnr. And, besides, it'd be a good idea to wait until I have the rings and gaskets to pull the motor block and service it. Maybe I can have it out and back in in one day. Oh...for that matter...I can start cleaning parts and bolts and maybe get some painting done.

Thanks, tortis. No need for apologies. I'll just take my measurements go from there.

How many days is the turn around time for your injectors. Will they be back in time for the weekend?

thook · 01-21-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete f

How many days is the turn around time for your injectors. Will they be back in time for the weekend?

Well, to be honest, they're not even mailed yet. Couldn't get by the P.O. in time. Probably won't be until Wed. We're experiencing freezing rain right now and the high tomorrow will be around 29*. The roads are not likely to thaw.

I'm not sure about the turnaround. As I recall, the thread where I learned of Mr. Injector (who's name is Bill) stated it was pretty quick. Like a week or so.

I'll let you know. Why do you ask? Want to have yours done?

01-18-2008, 06:23 AM	#64 (permalink)
YotaJunky Contributing Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 780	I don't mind working in the cold, as long as it's not winding/breezy. Just listening to you makes me shiver.... and I'm a Canuck... __________________ '95 4WD 22R-E 4Runner, 5spd, 205k kms, 4.56 gears, extended diff breather mod, bilstein shocks, Aisin manual hub swap, 1.25 rear coil spacer, 32" BFG's -- my DD

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