ditypup

HI, I have my 93 22RE 4x torn apart and cleaned out the plenum and intake. Wow, was the plenum full of greasy oily goo, only way to describe it. Now, I've read of it being carboned up but this is ridiculous. It was literally oozing the black gooey crap all over. Is this a symptom of a bad EGR valve? I don't really get how that much crud could be coming from the exhaust gases and through the EGR. Is it possible it was coming from the intake and back up into the plenum? Or from the PCV? Or all of them?
I know that doesn't make sense but I've long suspected that maybe I put some rings in upside down. It was my first rebuild. Or maybe it has a broken ring. And now maybe a bad EGR?


A little more info; the head gasket is leaking and did not seal properly on this truck from my last rebuild, I don't know why the head didn't get down tight enough on the gasket even with the right torque values on the head bolts. I did not have oil mixing in water or vice versa. I'm sure the head was surfaced but not excessive only a few thousandths. I did not replace valve guides as the original engine only had 99K on it. machinist said the head was good to go at that time.


I have had a major oil consumption issue and it was at it's worst drving in town. Out on the highway it hardly used any. When I took the truck 4 wheeling and got it seriously inclined either up or down it would smoke, burn oil. And of course it was using coolant, as it was leaking out of head gasket as well internally. Maybe a small external leak but very small and only at first when the engine was just rebuilt, say in the first few months.

I don't have the head off old engine yet as I'm still in parts cleaning stage trying to get the other short block built and into the truck. But I think I will stop and tear the old one down and see what gives. I want to use that oil pan, rocker assy and cam anyway.

The last time I did a compression check it was 1/159, 2/150, 3/165, 4/165 with the engine warm. That was quite a while ago as I knew the head gasket was not good and haven't really driven the truck much since then.
I want to see the head gasket and get a picture of it.

Just want to know what you guys think of this and what could have been causing it.

anndel

1. Do you have a K&N air filter?
2. Maybe the cylinder head or block was warped when you put the head gasket the 1st time around?

ditypup

Block was bored and decked a few thousandths at the same time the head was resurfaced. Stock air intake.

scope103

I'm not convinced there is anything wrong, other than 21 years of "neglect." Back-firing can fill the plenum with unburned (or even partially burned) fuel, but my guess is that it is just a long accumulation via a normally working EGR. I had the same, and the engine runs now with no problems.

Clean it up and you should be fine. Be aware that your idle-up ports might be currently blocked, with the idle set a little high to compensate. Once you clean up the plenum you might notice a much bigger jump in idle when you turn on the AC or turn the steering to a lock. If so, just bring the idle back down to where it's supposed to be.

ditypup

I don't have AC or Power steering so don't think I have idle up. Have to check that for sure. I have soaked the plenum all night on a cleaner fluid and it's way cleaner now. All the ports and holes are cleaned out. Cleaned the intake the same way. Will use carb cleaner and elbow grease on the throttle body.

Badger62811

Careful with the carb cleaner around any sensors. Them little guys are super sensitive and get really mad if you hit them with any kind of cleaner.

oldblue

not sure about older throttle bodies, but i know on newer ones its not a good idea to use carb cleaner on them. apparently there is a coating on the throttle body that carb cleaner damages. they make throttle body cleaner that is safe to use. i think the coating on the throttle bodies is "slick" to prevent the butterfly from binding

Old_ blue

The buildup is from your PCV. The choice of oil plays a big factor on how clogged, if you use low quality oil this happens. Penzoil is notorious making this happen to intake manifolds. The buildup also kills fuel millage sucking up fuel and changing volumetric efficiency. Morale of the story: dont use penzoil.

mct75

Isn't penzoil wax based?

ditypup

Scope -- good info - also, the truck never backfired. Always started right up and ran well but used oil. Wasn't the most powerful 22R I've had though.


Thanks guys for the heads up on carb cleaner. I'll try rags first with maybe some soap. I got most of the goo out of the TB already would like it to be cleaner though still it was working well when I took it apart so I shouldn't mess with it too much.

nv4runner

x2 on the PCV system. Excessive blow by can really gunk up the entire engine and all that unburned crap would be sucked into the intake.

jennygirl

Need to clean my 22re's plenum. I already carefully cleaned the TB but could see that the plenum is filled with at least 1-2mm of sooty-looking crap. I tried wiping part of it with my finger to see exactly how bad it was, but I quickly stopped because I didn't want a chunk to break off and land somewhere it shouldn't.

This is my next major step in overhaul, new plenum gasket is staring at me right now.

Also my AC idle up is for sure clogged, or partially clogged. Sometimes at idle after 5 or 6 seconds the engine will idle back up again with the AC on.

Good info about the results of dirty intake manifold.. It's inspiring me to get moving on it

RBX

get everything cleaned up, replace or inspect your PCV is working properly.
Then install a catch-can.
I added extra brass pot scrubber to condense more oil, you can use stainless steel scrubby pads also.
That will keep it clean for many miles. just be sure to check the cannister regularly so it doesn't fill. I drain mine every oil change, and it isn't anywhere near half full. I have the 3VZ engine, your results may vary.

Kiroshu

Excessive oil build up in the intake system points various faults:

Excessive internal engine wear/high mileage severe condition operated engine.

A failed and or faulty crank case ventilation system(PCV System).

Excessive blow-by from pistons VIA damaged and or incorrectly installed rings.
-Damaged/worn pistions.
-Piston to cylinder wall clearance excessive.

Worn valves and or valve guides.

Poor valve stem seals.

Poor oil drainage in cylinder head and or cylinder block.(Restricted drain passages)

Failed and or faulty EGR system.

ditypup

Well, I think I found the problem. Take a look at the pics and summarize for yourself. Now I have to determine why.

dark_fairytales

I am not seeing it. all looks normal too me. What are you trying to point out?

ditypup

That looks normal to you? It looks I had some pretty serious oil blow by on every cylinder. I have never seen cylinder walls so dark. Nor head so carboned up. The excessive oil consumption had to come from somewhere.
And it looks like piston rings not working correctly to me.

Kiroshu

See the orange ring around the top of every piston?

That's oil varnish a sign of excessive blow-by.

"Wet" carbon clearly covers the top of the combustion chamber(Cylinder head/valves).

Definatly something going on in the cylinders.

Pistons, Rings, Clearances, Ect.

Overhaul time!

ditypup

Kiroshu, I long suspected I may have installed the rings upside down. Probably got the compression readings that weren't indicative of this. But the oil consumption was. When I went up or down a steep incline the exhaust would smoke, and that was another thing that gave me a clue.
I have another block I'm building up for this truck. But maybe I could just get the bores honed, re-ring and use this one again.


What do you think?

Kiroshu

I guess its all preference really. Its probably still a good core block for a rebuild. Assuming is way passed stock clearances. Verify bore is appropriate for machining and possible oversize. A machine shop can check measurements if needed.