Jay351

Oh, and he has the AAL installed correctly. Im running a procomp short style (UGH!) AAL, they call for it to be installed between the overload and biggest spring.

And my springs are starting to do that too! Time for 63" chevys

__________________
91 Pickup - xcab - 5sp - 3.0 - sr5 - 4x4 - 220,000kms |2.25" catback w/ magnaflow cat + glasspack | Weasy2k cams | Aisin manual hubs |Diff breather mod | Marlin HD clutch |3" BL | es3000's |2" AAL |1.5" bj spacers | ISR | Alpine headunit | 4" Infinity fronts/5" rears | 4.88's |Rear lockright | 33x12.50" BFG M/T on 15x8" steelies |Hella 500's |4" reverse lights| Grant GT |Downey idler arm brace| Marlin armor | Amsoil synthetic drivetrain fluids


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2572486

abecedarian

Thanks, Jay351.

For some reason, I knew the AAL's were installed properly... maybe it was because I'd installed a set on my 91 2wd and they go in the same way?

But I digress....
Just got my new springs in to replace my blocks.
The thread is over here: http://www.yotatech.com/f116/ditchin...s-soon-145011/

__________________
Knowledge is that thing people don't have that they hope others do so they can get out of trouble without having to learn anything themselves...

It's time to re-claim 'green' as the color we deserve. Vote me as President, write-in candidate 2008.While you're at it, write-out EVERY Senator and Representative you can.

join Yotatech chat at http://www.yotatech.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

abecedarian

umm... me name's kirk- you can use that.

__________________
Knowledge is that thing people don't have that they hope others do so they can get out of trouble without having to learn anything themselves...

It's time to re-claim 'green' as the color we deserve. Vote me as President, write-in candidate 2008.While you're at it, write-out EVERY Senator and Representative you can.

join Yotatech chat at http://www.yotatech.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

thook

I like Abe, personally.......as a "nickname", that is.

.

__________________
Matthew

Context is everything....
Get smacked....join chat!
http://www.yotatech.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

mt_goat

I thought ABC was perfect, but Capt. Kirk works too.

__________________
Dale

"America is in a hole and it's getting deeper every day. We import 70% of our oil at a cost of $700 billion a year - four times the annual cost of the Iraq war." T. Boone Pickens
Check out the plan: http://www.pickensplan.com/ and http://www.cngnow.com/EN-US/Pages/default.aspx

x-man

When i got my runner it had 3" lift blocks, took those out for 5" springs. A friend of mine who has a Ford, has 3" blocks, went off roading and the blocks shifted! result, stuck rig on the trail with the axel twisted.

blakegeee

The AAL's look fine to me. They just look strange because the main leaf pack is flattened out on the AAL. Usually the upper pack is "U" shaped and it only comes into contact with the flat AAL under a serious load.

And it does look like the blocks didn't necessarily cause the problem, but may have compounded it. It the springs were not shot, everything would have been ok.

In any case, its a good contribution for discussion. Thanks ABC, or ABE, or whatever...

__________________

www.JungleFenderFlares.com

slacker

I'm usin' blocks in my build .. if done correctly .. you should have no problems ..

as stated above .. the spring sag has NOTHING to do with the blocks .. it's just poor maintanance . you need to look after you junk better !!

__________________
86 4x4 , fiberglass bed , 1/2 doors , hood ... more to come .
84 2WD "hotrod" Intercooled 7MGTE
83 Trekker SR5
MY PAGE
2WD fourm I frequent
NEW Trekker forum

abecedarian

Do you have something constructive to say or are you just defending what you believe to be correct in spite of photographic evidence to the contrary?

__________________
Knowledge is that thing people don't have that they hope others do so they can get out of trouble without having to learn anything themselves...

It's time to re-claim 'green' as the color we deserve. Vote me as President, write-in candidate 2008.While you're at it, write-out EVERY Senator and Representative you can.

join Yotatech chat at http://www.yotatech.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

SwampThing

You know whats better than leafs sitting on blocks? Coils sitting in the bumpstops over the leafs, sitting over blocks. Come on, tell me I wasn't the ONLY one to have done this...

On a serious note, honestly, I truly don't mind a small block in the rear, but what irks me, is those folks who run blocks up front!

__________________
Toyota 84 PU: Killed in Action - Pending (Give it time, it'll happen)
Toyota 89 4R: Killed in Action - Dukes of Hazard'ed / Evil Knievel'ed
Toyota 95 PU: Killed in Action - Tire blow-out induced roll over

Some folks call me a crazy redneck. I prefer just Clint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abecedarian and a 3/4/5 right beer-angle isn't a recognized geometrical figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thook One day a child will ask,"Mommy, why are there endangered species?". "Well, dear, one day someone invented the truck... Then, Clint was born!"

slacker

who are you ...... anyhow ?

I've been runnin' blocks for years .. and 12 years on one rig .. and now doing another build .. (lost count of the trucks I have built)


I have been building TOYOTA trucks since /81 .. whats your pedagree ? I can talk from experance ..

my latest build , USING BLOCKS
http://www.yotatech.com/f114/1st-one...-build-131775/


.

__________________
86 4x4 , fiberglass bed , 1/2 doors , hood ... more to come .
84 2WD "hotrod" Intercooled 7MGTE
83 Trekker SR5
MY PAGE
2WD fourm I frequent
NEW Trekker forum

abecedarian

Just because you've been doing it for years doesn't mean much other than it hasn't happened to you. I don't particularly care whether you've got 10, 15 or 30 years experience. I've been working on 'vehicles' since 1982. I am a certified Detroit Diesel, Caterpillar and Cummins tech, authorized to work on Peterbilt, Kenworth, Freightliner and Mack trucks. I've worked on, either for myself or for others, mechanical and electrical aspects of various Chrysler/Dodge, Volkswagen (air and water cooled), Toyota, Pontiac, Massey-Ferguson, New Holland, Caterpillar, Case, Deere, Winnebago, Weekend Warrior... need I go on?

*edit- And I am going to add that I am currently working building cellular and other wireless communications facilities, including cell sites and radio/tv towers. The pay is 3 times better. I take home, hourly, what most repair shops charge the customers for labor.

So, care to address my question: do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation? Put your 'pedigree' to the test.
Here's an example- you allege I don't take care of my 'junk' (rather a rude comment since you neither know me nor my 4runner)... so what should I have done differently?
Here's another example- you say that the sagging springs and blocks have no affect on each other. Why?

__________________
Knowledge is that thing people don't have that they hope others do so they can get out of trouble without having to learn anything themselves...

It's time to re-claim 'green' as the color we deserve. Vote me as President, write-in candidate 2008.While you're at it, write-out EVERY Senator and Representative you can.

join Yotatech chat at http://www.yotatech.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

slacker

well .. in my opinion ..

springs should have been replace a long time ago .. we all know of the dredded rear spring sag of the 4runners ..

as for the blocks .. wether sitting on the OE pirch or a block .. there is almost identical spring "foot print" on the mounting surface , actually better on a block , so that point is irrelevent .

other the spring "wrap" , which your runner is not equipt to exert.. there is no identifying cause to blame this spring failier on the block ..


explain your reason for blaming it on the blocks please ?


.

__________________
86 4x4 , fiberglass bed , 1/2 doors , hood ... more to come .
84 2WD "hotrod" Intercooled 7MGTE
83 Trekker SR5
MY PAGE
2WD fourm I frequent
NEW Trekker forum

abecedarian

Agreed, springs should've been replaced a while ago, however I've only had the runner a little over a year so.... Anyhow, the springs already had the add-a-leaf on it and weren't wrapped at all. Then a lift kit came up for sale from a guy doing and SAS / chevy spring conversion. Bought the complete lift for 400. I was hesitant about the blocks because I already knew that they could cause the springs to wrap up and the springs were already fatigued / sagging almost 1" in the back even with the add-a-leafs. The plan has always been to replace the springs and blocks so fingers were crossed that they wouldn't break and they didn't.

Fast forward 1 year- my other projects, an '89 Celica GT and a '72 Firebird are on hold so I order the springs and take pictures showing how 1 year of driving on weakened springs and 4" blocks could affect things. All other things being equal, the only thing changed on the rear was the addition of the blocks and the wheels/tires.

Now for the 'newtonian physics' part of the story. With the axle bolted directly to the spring pack, the torque seen by the springs was managable, obviously, since the springs were not bent/wrapped. Being that you've worked on trucks before, you know that there is torque from acceleration and deceleration. It's something every vehicle that moves does- that's what moves and stops a vehicle: torque is applied for acceleration and absorbed for deceleration. That torque can induce that thing called 'axle wrap'- the primary reason many people install ladder bars or traction bars- to keep the spring from wrapping up and binding the u-joints or to stabilize wheel-hop. If you've ever used a breaking bar, or clipped the boxed end of a combination wrench over the open end to extend the leverage, you know the advantages of longer levers acting through a fulcrum.

When you consider the spring as the fulcrum, the spring perch is approximately 1/2" thick. Now, you add a 4" lever on the axle and guess what? The torque applied to the spring mounting surface increases proportionately to the tune of approximately 8 times more than the perch alone due to the fact that the block is 8 times 'longer' than the perch. You've increased the mechanical advantage the axle has over the spring.

Now, add in the add-a-leafs which extend approximately 6" to the front and 8" to the rear. You are then distributing the torque through the comparatively stiff add-a-leaf to the points at ends of the add-a-leaf where it contacts the spring. So now it's not simply a matter of the axle wrapping the spring, it's the axle torquing the lift block and transfering that force through the the add-a-leaf to a well-worn spring. Imagine what would happen without that distribution of torque away from the axle mounting point.

So my point in starting this thread was to show the possible outcome of using lift blocks to compensate for the 'sagging' rear end most stock 1st gen 4runners, and many pickups with shells or toolboxes- well any vehicle with leaf springs for that matter, can develop.

Feel free to look at the pics at the start of the thread. They display exactly what I'm describing- the main leafs abnormally tweaked by the AAL's due to the torque imposed by the lift blocks. The springs were worn, but had a correct, albeit shallow downward arch before installing the blocks.

__________________
Knowledge is that thing people don't have that they hope others do so they can get out of trouble without having to learn anything themselves...

It's time to re-claim 'green' as the color we deserve. Vote me as President, write-in candidate 2008.While you're at it, write-out EVERY Senator and Representative you can.

join Yotatech chat at http://www.yotatech.com/misc.php?do=flashchat

slacker

I understand the therory of leverage and acceleration . your spring wrap would be neglable with stock tires (or 31's) and an open diff . (unless your popin' the clutch , doin' burn outs , and light to light racing )

but again .. in my opinion , the blocks are not the reason for the spring failier .. they may have accellerated your spring issues , because of weak springs .. but the springs obviously were weak in the first place .

and I have read the thread .. the whole thread .

"Anyone want a good reason to not run lift blocks?" is not accurate .. It should read .. What happens to weak springs when adding blocks .


differant strokes I guess ..

I would agree blocks alone are not a good thing .. as I have always used a "spring wrap " device along with them ..

.

__________________
86 4x4 , fiberglass bed , 1/2 doors , hood ... more to come .
84 2WD "hotrod" Intercooled 7MGTE
83 Trekker SR5
MY PAGE
2WD fourm I frequent
NEW Trekker forum