mr smith

Hi all,
First post. Great site..Been here for a couple months. Heres my issue.

89 4X4 PU, manual tranny, 22re, 214k miles. Kid had it and it cracked the exhaust manifold..He drove it like that for a week before I heard it one day and told him that was bad. He went and had Midas put a new exhaust on it. When it came back it started running really badly and overheating. Again kid kept driving it..and finally got stranded along side the road because it overheated and had no power. No oil in the water, no water in the oil but was doing the great geyser out the rad. So he bought a new Tundra and I inherited the mess. I pulled the head and got a new one cause the exhaust valves were toast, along with a new timing set. Put it all back together and fired it up yesterday. It runs great for about two minutes or till when the fast idle turns off and then it starts surging really bad. The surge does not go away when I apply throttle..only gets worse and it starts loosing power as well. Finally after 10 - 15 minutes of progressively getting worse, it just up and quits. After it cools down it runs fine again for the first couple of minutes. Ive burped it, check for vacuum leaks, and made sure all the hoses are connected. Anyone got any ideas? Im about to light the whole thing on fire.

mr smith

Ive diagnosed the surging to be the EGR valve. Disconnected it and the surging pretty much goes away. It still looses power the warmer it gets until it bogs out and eventually quits though. Any clues anyone?

91Toyota

What is it idling at? Have you tried turning down the idle? Is it when you push on the brake pedal?

abecedarian

pretty much goes away does not mean it goes away.

at first glance I'd suggest checking for vacuum leaks, but you seem to have already done that....
so, the next things I would do is check the TPS and AFM operation and adjustments as well as thoroughly inspecting the intake ducting between the engine and the air filter housing.

abecedarian

I'm gonna add that if the TPS and AFM are operating properly and there are no defects in the intake ducting, check the coolant temp sensor on the front of the intake manifold.

91Toyota

Testing TPS - http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml

Testing AFM - http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AFM/index.shtml

CTS - In your basic manual...very easy to test.

Good luck!

mr smith

Ill try and do the TPS / AFM and coolant sensor checks tomorrow. Will keep you posted. Thanks!

mr smith

Its idling pretty low....Id say in the 500 rpm area. I havent adjusted any of that yet because of the bogging issue. Pushing the brake pedal does not change anything. It just progressively gets worse and eventually dies. Let it cool down and it runs great again for another few minutes and the process starts over.

91Toyota

Hmm...interesting. So what your saying is when you start it it runs fine but once it warms up it gets really bad?

abecedarian

tune / adjust it when it's warm (idle speed and timing) and then deal with the cold issues seperately.

91Toyota

Like abe would say...when its warm is the engines natural state...everything else is controlled by the computer or something else. <- something like that...haha

abecedarian

the ecu is programmed to deal with the engine in it's 'normal' state (which is warm and running). so, yeah. cold start is an 'extra' added on to the 'normal' operation of the engine.... unless you can justify the engine running 'cold' all the time....

91Toyota

I'm sure cold start was an option on my truck

abecedarian

yer almost funny, ya know? too bad 'experienced operator' wasn't an option.

@ mr smith: so anyhow... do the tune up like the factory says, with the engine warmed up and all, and let's see what happens.

mr smith

I only really had time to pull the throttle body off and clean it tonight. It was pretty bad! Put it all back together and it started right up. Started to pour some sea foam into it and it smoked a little but then I noticed what appeared to be smoke coming from the back of the engine. I couldnt pin point it because my time was up and the freakin thing died on me. You dont think the block is cracked or something and I didnt see it do you? Ive been building engines since I was 16..I know my way around a wrench but this is weird. Maybe the EGR pipe has a crack and I missed it?

abecedarian

there is a passage on the back of the engine (22r/re) that carries exhaust gasses from the exhaust manifold up to the EGR valve.
there is also a water passage (that goes from the intake manifold to the water pump) which bolts to the back of the engine...
and the PAIR system has a pipe (which goes around and is bolted to the back of the block) as well.
we can't, or rather shouldn't, rule out a leak from the rear of the valve cover either.

mr smith

I replaced all the gaskets on those when I put the new head on.

abecedarian

All I was saying is that there are things on the back of the engine that "could" cause smoke.
I'm not saying that any of those are the cause of the smoke.

If I was pressed to guess, I'd say the Seafoam was causing some excess blowby and the PCV system couldn't fully redirect it to the intake, and the excess pressure in the crankcase was causing the smoke to come out from around the valve cover. But that's if I was forced to guess. There is not much pressure between the valve cover and the head, and it is the first place to start leaking on every 20r/22r/22re engine I've ever seen.

mr smith

Interesting...And I wasnt knocking your info. I appreciate it allot! BTW its in a state of not running at all now even after letting it cool down for an hour. Something with the Seafoam seems to have made the condition worse. Ill try tomorrow and see if it starts. Thanks for all the help so far!

abecedarian

I don't think you're 'knocking' my info.
Matter of factly, I appreciate anyone that can present information that I'm wrong. How else am I supposed to learn things? ... and then pass it on to the next person?

But... if the seafoam treatment has caused your engine to not start when the engine's cold, I am willing to suggest that tune-ups haven't been performed properly and adjustments have been made that mask other problems, and the seafoam is 'revealing' a problem that wasn't initially obvious.

All of the tune-up specs: idle speed, timing, etc. are all made when the engine has reached normal operating temp and if anything has been adjusted to compensate for a 'cold' engine condition, nothing is technically correct.

So... get it running and warm it up, adjust the timing and idle speed according to factory specs and with factory procedures, make sure the EGR works properly, then let's start working with the 'cold' engine operation if it turns out to be a problem.