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Still - if the claims of parallel flow condensers are to be believed, then I could replace the OEM condenser with a parallel flow one without the extra front condensor.
And that will give me room for a real Power Steering cooler...
Ewong - I live in South Florida where it is basically hot all the time all year long. So I'm always interested in an AC thread. First off, I believe that the 4Runners (vs pickups) had the double stacked AC condensers to account for the fact that there is more air volume inside a 4Runner and therefore they needed to radiate the heat more effectively. I've kind of been round and round with my AC system but I've never completely been happy. The most recent time, I changed all the o-rings, including the ones under the manifolds on the AC compressor, vac'd system down, and filled. It was never really cold. It seems like there is a lot of info out there that says parallel flow condensers are better, and I'd like to try it, but it sort of leads down a path of custom AC hoses (unless maybe you can find one with the in and out close enough to work with our system as is. So my next thought was to go to a newer 4Runner, like 1995 that came from factory with r134 and use the condenser, drier, and lines out of it. I've been watching the u pull it around here for the right year 4Runner and when I see one, I plan to go take a look to see what the challenges are. Anyway, I subscribed because if you do happen to find a parallel flow that will work, I'd be super interested.
so just for yucks - I keyed i 1994 4Runner Condenser on the AutoZone web site
Which pulls up a condenser that looks nothing like the obvious tube/fin condenser on the R12 based 4Runner Gen1
its hard to tell, but the "loops" at the end seem to indicate that it is a "micro tube" but still a serpentine....
It looks like one might have to graft on an entire front assembly from the later 4Runner
(i.e. convert to the 1989+ truck front end parts - radiator support etc...)
BTW - I am under the impression, that the "work" to
-- fab up "nice" bracketry for a Parallel flow Condenser
-- custom hoses
-- bracketry for a drier
-- more hoses (the fittings are both on one side - so at least one hose gets made longer and crosses the front
-- possible new compressor (1994?)
-- possible new compressor bracket?
-- possible new belts?
anyway - when all is said and done - this project will run close to $1K or more?
Which sound like a lot - but I bought my truck new in 1989 and the "dealer" installed AC costs $695 for the parts (back then!) from "Browns Toyota of Maryland" (sort of the 1989 version of an internet dealer parts seller). Since the dealer wanted $650 for the AC INSTALLED and UNDER WARRANTY - guess what I had done
So to spend $695 in 1989 is around $1350 today.... (inflation adjusted)
I can't find the website where I found the info, but basically, the later model 22RE equipped 4Runners and trucks that had R134a inserted, used the same serpentine condenser as the R12 models.
Ewong - yeah, you appear to be correct, I thought I read that the 95s were parallel flow, but maybe not. Seems like most of the universal parallel flow condensers have the in and out on same side, whereas our condenser has in/out on opposite sides. That's probably no big deal, just have to make or find a hose to go from condenser output over to the drier I think.
When I got my 89 Gen 1 4Runner, I was told the AC system was beyond repair so I took their word for it but while pulling the PS pump to rebuild it I found a ruptured AC line. I had a spare line so I put in some new O-Rings in both lines and reinstalled them. I threw a can of 134A, which is what my 89 uses and it went straight to cooling and cooling very well to my surprise. I just stopped right there until I could service it properly. I brought home my AC tools from work this weekend to change the dryer, vac and refill it.
I just saw this thread and wondered if the 89 was built with a 134A system or if mine had been converted. My 88 parts truck had a R12 system. I see no evidence of a conversion. Mine has the double stack condenser so it might be worth looking up parts for an 89 and see if you can use them in a conversion to 134. Mine cools just fine in the South Arkansas humidity. Definitely not giving advice here. Just throwing that out there about my 89 being a 134 system with similar parts and mounting locations.
Mine has the double stack condenser so it might be worth looking up parts for an 89 and see if you can use them in a conversion to 134. Mine cools just fine in the South Arkansas humidity. Definitely not giving advice here.
My 1989 Gen1 came w/o AC. Since I bought it new, I got the dealer to install the "Factory AC". It was set up with R12.
My general understanding, is that you CAN convert over to R134a with a vac pull and maybe some O rings, and maybe a dryer and maybe an expansion valve.
The issue is that the "serpentine" double stack condenser does not have enough capacity to cool the "huge" (compared to a pickup) interior of a 4Runner when used with R134a.
Right now, I know I have to pull the inside core to clean off the mouse crap. So Im gonna do that first.
I'll probably have my "mech" pull a vac and decide on a R134a vs R12 install depending on cost.
My GUESS is that a minimum, new hoses are warranted; in which case I would go to "barrier" hoses - which are more compatible with R134a.
Seems like most of the universal parallel flow condensers have the in and out on same side, whereas our condenser has in/out on opposite sides. That's probably no big deal, just have to make or find a hose to go from condenser output over to the drier I think.
After reading up on hoses and stuff.
a) AFAICT, all parallel flow condensors have the in and out on the same side. I think its how a parallel flow condenser actually works.
b) Im less and less concerned about making up a custom hose.
This site sells every kind of hose end you can imagine!.
A few other forums have people basically buying a "kit", cutting the hose and making sure it all fits, and then taking it to an AC shop for them to crimp it - about a few bucks a crimp.
What I seem to ge getting a hint on is that the Toyota em fittings are the "taper seat" fittings and everyone has moved to O ring type connectors. Not sure tho, I;ll have to look.
All the after market AC "kits" seem to use Sanden compressors.
It appears to be, because the compressors are "modular".
But the mount is very different that the mount used on the 22RE
Put some gauges on that thing before you spend a bunch of money. If your condenser isn't doing what it should or any other component for that matter, you'll see it in the gauges. Also get in there and clean out the evap and inspect the blower motor. You can be cooling 32 degrees and still be hot if you aren't getting good flow through your inside coils. I'm not sure what you'll find when you get in to your inside components but I would get you some gauge readings before you go in there in case they indicate a malfunctioning component. Will be a lot easier to get it replaced while you are in there cleaning.
Air flow across that condenser is also extremely important. Make sure your fan clutch is in good order. If you see your coolant temp rise more than a couple degrees when you run your AC, that would indicate you might have an air flow issue.
I'd also find you a good AC shop with someone who is willing to just sit down and talk over your options with you. You'd be surprised how inexpensive a lot of the small but important components are and they can probably design you an upgraded AC system that uses most of your existing parts.
You would be surprised how much better one will cool after a good cleaning, new dryer, vac and refill.
Good plan. If you do get back to thinking about some kind of upgrade to your system, I know a lady who runs a big AC shop near me. She has been doing AC work for probably 30 years and her dad taught her everything he knew form 30 more years. She is the most knowledgeable AC pro I have ever talked to and she will know exactly what you need to do and explain the whole thing to you like it's the only thing she had to do all day. She can design a complete system for you if you need it. They do a ton of classic cars and equipment that had no AC option from the factory. They also have a big storeroom of AC parts and will ship them to you. Prices are really good too. Not inflated like you see at most AC shops.
This isn't an ad. Tonya and I are actually in a little argument over a warranty issue right now but she can help you if you get to where you get stuck and need advice.
Tonya at Johnnys Radiator in Warren AR
(870) 226-5000
Tell her Drew from TLI gave you the number.
Main line Philly area (translation - MONEY) has many shops that do very specialized automotive work.
The repair shop I use (when Im too busy with life to deal with the cars) are good guys and know people.
I'm pretty sure I have all of the AC parts from behind the firewall out of an 88. Let me know if you need anything and I'll hook you up. You may need to take pictures of the parts. I'm not sure what to call some of them but I know I stripped them out of my parts truck and I know where they are. PM me if you need anything.
07-27-2016, 05:37 PM
