Inferno451

Ok, i'm fed up and think it's about time to ask for some help. I'll boil it down to bullet points.

-Rebuilt 22re, approximately 3000 miles on it
-Turned crank, new rings, bearings, gaskets, etc.
-Short block i bought had been recently rebuilt, it had been bored .5mm over and still had plenty of crosshatching and measured right where it should have been with a caliper. Gave it a good, light 45 degree hone
-Runs fantastic, plenty of power, idles great, 24MPG
-NO leaks
-Rings installed properly, right side up, gaps staggered
-Burning oil at the rate of about a quart every 500 miles
-Spark plugs look fine, and no smoke

ANY ideas? I'm seriously considering just dumping this truck as much as i love it, because it's burning almost as much oil as it did before i rebuilt it.

StewsRunner

iTrader: (1)

Well definitely don't give up, i'm sure it's a a PITA and a bit pricey but you'll probably find something stupid you did or forgot to do. . .

slacker

iTrader: (1)

I dont see valve seals on the list ? did you do the head as well ?



.

Kiroshu

PCV system?

Oil in intake?

PCV valve stuck causing excessive crank case pressure and oil to enter intake to be burned....

Valve stem seals replaced?

Smoke during excessive idling or hard take off?

Blocked oil drain back ports in the head/block?

What is the truck primarily used for?

Excessive high speed driving?

Towing?

Oil weight too thin?

Poor quality oil?

Check compression?

Got a used short block.... >_<

nothingbetter

don't mind this, mis-read the OP

Inferno451

PCV system?

-New pcv valve

Oil in intake?

-Don't see any

PCV valve stuck causing excessive crank case pressure and oil to enter intake to be burned....

-New pcv and grommet, hoses in good shape and not blocked

Valve stem seals replaced?

-Yes

Smoke during excessive idling or hard take off?

-Nope

Blocked oil drain back ports in the head/block?

-Block and head were spotlessly cleaned before putting together

What is the truck primarily used for?

-DD/Highway driving

Excessive high speed driving?

-If you consider 75mph with stock gears and tires excessive high speed then absolutely

Towing?

-Nope

Oil weight too thin?

-Same oil consumption with 5-30 and 10-30

Poor quality oil?

-Just using Walmart supertech oil, don't think that would cause THAT much consumption, would it?

Check compression?

-Compression was good when i put it together, turning the engine over with a wrench is TOUGH on each compression stroke.

Got a used short block.... >_<

-Used, but in VERY good shape and rebuilt very, very recently. Properly mic'd and honed using a 3 stone type hone. It had been bored over .5mm, correct size pistons and rings were used, all ENGNBLDR parts.

Anybody have any ideas? The only thing i'm worried about is that i didn't go the whole nine yards on the head and have it planed with new valve seats/guides. I cleaned it up really well, cleaned up and lapped the valves, put new valve stem seals on it and it looked great. I don't see how even if the head was warped it could cause this much consumption...

Kiroshu

Supertech >_<

Eww...

I would try switching to a better quality oil maybe even a synthetic oil.

I've over the years experimented with lots of different oils looking for the longest lasting and least consumption.

The engine in my 86 4runner has 265k original never rebuilt motor miles and i know how you feel about oil consumption.

Beleive me being an automobile Tech myself i didn't think for a long time the type of oil really made any difference.... well from personal exp.. i was wrong..

I've tried just about every oil you can buy on the shelf for extended periods of time i supose i could list them based on my experience with them and what i use now. Starting with what i used first when i got the truck.

-Quaker State: Low quality oil in my exp. Not very good for high mileage engines. I bought the truck from my dad and he had bought it brand new and i got it when it had about 190K on it. He was all about using the cheapest oil and that it was all the same. He claimed that pretty much most of the time he used quaker state most of the time mainly because it was lowest on cost. So since thats what he had been putting in it i figured i would just put it what it has had in it for its duration. Quaker state i don't like it bearly lasted 1500-2000k miles before it lost most of its detergents and properties. Pitch black on dipstick at 2k. Didn't get consumed so bad as it did break down. Had a high sludging rate.

Castrol: Castrol is an ok oil it had pretty good properties for conditioning engine noise and sealing. However with castrol it was being comsumed very very quickly about a quart every 500-800 miles. It was breaking down or losing much of its properties and detergents but its just being consumed too much.

Penzoil: Decent detergents and properties but was breaking down and consuming about a quart every 1000K miles and about 2K it was time for an oil change. Not a terrible oil but not my best choice.

Rottela 15w40 HD: I tried Rottela for a very long time and got alot of mixed results at first.... Rottela was great for cold starts and "hot" starting. Very good lubricating and engine noise reducing for about the first 800 miles.... after about 500-800 miles it would consume over a quart.... after about 1500 miles it was pitch black and has lost all of its good properties that it had at first.... engine becomes noisey with this oil after 2k.... A quart every week and a half was a bit blah...

So finally i found it...

Valvoline 10w40 Maxlife: I normally didn't believe in high mileage engine oils and thought it was a gimic... However i had heard alot of good things about valvoline oil.... especially the Maxlife oil which is supose to aid high mileage motors. I was like ok i will give it a shot. I ran this oil for the first time and the second i turned the truck on i could tell the difference. The engine had a different sound to it... it had all the same noises(Lifters/ect.) but the tone of their noises was alot different and some quieter. I was intrigued. I drove the truck about 800 miles and there is so much difference with this oil. The engine runs alot smoother believe it or not and after 1000k miles i checked the oil level and it still had almost exactlly the same amount as i put in it when i changed the oil. Maybe like a few milimeters was missing from the dipstick. I was amazed, and even more amazed by the color. It still had lots of life left i was still lightly colored and hardly broken down at all. After 2k miles it had burned 1/2 a quart and thats it... i was like wow this is the best/least consumption ive ever seen on an oil. The maxlife oil has high detergents for cleaning and conidtioning engine parts and beleive me you can tell the difference. Very low consumption rate and low break down rate.

I am still and forever sticking with valvoline as of today.

Oh em gee... sorry for wall of text...

I mean assuming there is absolutely no leaks like you say and all the engine parts are in good order....

Change the type of oil see if it helps.... like i said it took a while to find the right one for my worn out 22re. ^_^

And 90% of my driving is highway as well and oil consumption is naturally more at higher speeds.

Possible incorrectly installed oil rings?

Sin

nice write up on oils!

Inferno451

Wow, yeah, thanks for that gem of experience there! The oil does get dark pretty darn quick, i'll have to give valvoline a try! Do you think an even thicker weight would help?

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I take it you never measured the the valve stem to guide clearance??

If you got the lower end put together correct

. Have good compression remember you will still have good compression with excessive guide to stem clearance.

I would say you either fix this head or spring for a new one with a cam. May as well get one from Ted with the oversize valves .

After all you just did the bottom end the correct way

The 75 mph cruising does not help either.

If I was closer I would talk you into selling your Truck put on a New head and be good to go. (like I need another Truck)

Inferno451

No, i did minimal rebuild work on the head, just cleaned it up really well, and replaced the stem seals. Don't the stem seals mostly keep the oil from going past? There was no obvious play in the valves when they were in the guides, everything seemed nice and tight. The head is pretty old though, so it wouldnt surprise me if they are a little worn. I have a head that's in better shape back home, but i ran out of time to put it on before i left for work up here in washington for the summer. Could a low quality pcv cause something like this? I just used one from autozone. It rattles just fine. I'm really at a loss here.

nightstalker

I rebuilt my 22r and had the head done as well, it took 8k miles before it quit using oil, I was told it was the rings I used?? Either way, it quit. Mine never puffed a puff of smoke, plugs were never wet with oil and ran like new, don't give up on it!

Dirt Driver

I will point out one thing since so much about oil sprang up: the color of the oil does not indicate how "spent" it is. It is supposed to suspend particulates so they don't settle in the engine and leave deposits.

Kiroshu, did you ever have analyses done on those? Not knocking that you found what works for you; I'm just a stickler for scientific results.

Kiroshu

Well yea of course i didn't actually get it lab tested or anything like that. I just use the color as an easier tool of explination. Course i didn't exactly state in my post that color had to do with break down.... ^_^ The oil does absorb and move particulates and debris in the engine of course but most of which are deposited into the filter along with alot of the oils properties.

Yea it would have been really cool if i could have tested it but being young at the time of most of this, it was not even a thought at all ^_^.

However a big indicator for me was the sound of the engine during these oil uses. And of course consumption. I know my 22re and the way it sounds like the back of my hand. Like i stated above i noticed alot of sound changes with the different qualities of oil. Loud to quieter.... ect.

I'm the kind of person thats was changing from an oil such as "Advnace Auto parts" brand oil and turning the truck on letting it run for an hour at idle and then switching to Penzoil and running the engine to listen to the difference for another hour. If you are touch with your toyota like i am there is a a difference

Theres alot of difference with synthetic oils as well i noticed... i tried not to run them too much do to the mileage on my engine.

Another interesting factor i found was the weight of the oil filter. I thought nothing of it at first but i started to notice after switching away from quaker state and going to another oil type that the oil filter was alot heavier at first. Not full of oil but you could tell that the oil was doing its job and moving debris to the filter. I especially noticed this after switching to valvoline the filters were very heavy compared to before. When i was using the Rottela oil the filters hardly were any different in weight then when i intsalled them.

Just... the little things... would be cool to acctually lab test though...

Inferno451

I will say that my oil gets dark pretty darn fast. Not BLACK, but pretty brown after only a few hundred miles...

Dirt Driver

Did you cut them open to see what was inside?

Kiroshu

^--- Nah would have been cool though if it did...

Inferno451

Well, here's an update; i noticed it blowing smoke under high rpm the other day, so i blocked off the pcv and breather hoses (which there was a bit of white smoke from) and it's still smoking. Is there any way this is NOT the rings? I'd be ecstatic if i didn't have to tear the bottom end apart again. Head = no big deal at this point. Or am i looking at a re rebuild?

Inferno451

ok, i MAY have overreacted about the smoke from the pcv and breather hoses, it's more of a mist, i suppose oil mist is normal, right? That's what the pcv is for, after all. With the engine running the mist just kind of wafts out rather than being shot out, and i can put my finger over it and not feel anything, even while revving the engine. STILL smoking under high load at high rpm. I just don't see how it could be the rings, i'm sure everything was put together correctly, and i've got great compression. What else could be causing oil burning with new valve stems? If the guides were worn out, that still wouldn't cause consumption, would it? I have no smoke on startup...

lobukbuild

possibly wrong head gasket blocking a return or something on that line? i agree on the valve guide theory. is the motor broke in yet? even that the rings are installed properly are they the correct rings for the pistons, ie: thickness , end gaps etc. oil pump pressure set to high? just some thoughts that entered my head.