QuickPaws

And the hits just keep coming

So... Friday I went to go to the bank, and the truck started REALLY hard; normally I turn the key and it fires right up.. This time, it just cranked alot... and nothing.... I fought with it for all of five minutes... and it kinda chugged and died at one point... tried again and held the gas a little and it chugged and started. Held the gas in a little ot rev it to about 2 grand, and let it come down, where it sat and idled fine.

Ran fine for the next hour while I was driving around taking care of things.

Parked it. It sat all day yesterday, and I went to go start it today just to run it, and it did the same thing... except it won't start at all now. I don't think it's even firing. Here's what I DO know:

1. It has spark.
2. It has fuel ( I can smell it after trying to start it for a while )
3. It DOES crank and turn over ( i.e it isn't just the starter motor spinning )


It's been having problems, but nothing like this. It only ever had idle problems where I kept having to back out the idle screw because the idle would keep dropping, after I adjusted it more.

I'm thinking ( praying?) maybe I have some fouled plugs.. so I'm going to try and scrape money together to buy six plugs and a plug wrench and give that a shot. I think I remember people saying BUY NGK!!! Am I correct in this?

I'm here, however, for other things to try, that I can check out. I only have the most basic of tools due to... certain financial circumstances, but I'm confident in my abilities to work on the truck with as little as possible.

So, thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions on what to check/try next.

At the suggestion of another member ( Bugs1961 ) Since I can't get the truck to give me any codes when I short out the terminals, I'm going to cut the wires for the short, and wire a switch in instead. He has sent me what I need to get it done as far as what wires are what color for each terminal.

I will try and get this done and the codes pulled ASAP. ( it's dark out now, no light in the garage to work with really )

Def could use the help though.. it's the only vehicle we have... and we live in Gary....Which is... empty.

Jay351

When was the timing belt last done?

when my trucks belt went, it jumped a few teeth and made it run like crap, then once I got it home and turned it off and tried to turn it on again it would no longer start (stripped the teeth off of the belt when trying to start it).

You have air, fuel but we don't know if you have compression yet.

NGK is a very good brand of parts. Denso is probibly the only brand that makes stuff thats better for our trucks. Most parts that are put in by the factory are denso

I would advise against cutting the wires...

I would make sure the CEL bulb is not burned out first.
Then make sure all the wiring is good. If it is, then there are no codes stored.
When you short the terminals, what happens? If you have no codes the CEL light should blink constantly.

xfactor203

CEL should come on momentarily when you turn on this ignition, so you can see if it is working.

QuickPaws

***Edit*** Forums screwed up and did some wonky stuff to my reply... I edited out the stuff that made no sense.


I cut alot out, but I'll answer it. Timing belt was done when the HG's were done in May of 08. There was alot of work done on it by the PO actually, and I have the paperwork for it. I think there's only been 40-60K put on it since then.

CEL is good, it's on and it stays on. I should have mentioned this I apologize. I've been trying to get codes from it for a while now, and haven't gotten it to throw any. I KNOW there are codes that need to be read though. Shorting the terminals does nothing. No blinks, no anything. Nothing happens. I'm thinking I'm getting a bad connection at the terminals. It looks like someone tried to shove something large in there, and night have broken the connector INSIDE the diagnostics port. ( not my work, I built a tool out of spade connectors for it, no go with that even though it fits in other ports on the diagnostics port )

Sorry it took so long to reply.. internet and or site's been wonky for me for a couple days now.. :-/

QuickPaws

Just tried to start it with starting fluid ( yeah yeah.. I know.. it's bad ) it didn't even fire and die ( like maybe if the fuel pump wasn't working )

When I tested for spark, I unplugged the number 2 cylinder ( that's the cylinder on the front corner of the engine right, looking at the truck? ) and stuck my trusty phillips head in there, laid it across a bolt on the block, and had my buddy crank... it sparked ( solid test for spark right? Or am I missing something/doing something wrong? )

Really getting nervous now.

I do NOT see coolant leaking anywhere, and I just checked it again for S&G's, and it's still pretty and green... for the most part... I know it needs to be cleaned, so there's a little brown in there ( NOT oil, just... rust, most likley ) Also, no water in the oil cap/on the oil cap/on the dip stick.

I'm thinking maybe it has to be something a little more obvious at this point...Maybe the coil/ignitor?

Jay351

60,000miles is about all you can get on a timing belt.

IIRC the change interval is 90,000km.

Pop off the dist cap and crank the motor, if it doesnt turn then you got a bad timing belt. Though you should be able to hear the difference in the way it cranks (it would crank easily and quite fast).

If the diagnostic ports are not working, try probing the wires right before they go into the diagnostic box.

QuickPaws

Damn. I'll tell you right now it sounds different to me when I crank it. I don't even need to go out there to see if that distro turns. I'm gonna go out and check anyway though. I have a buddy here ( def not a mechanic, but a nerdd ( kinda like me, except I can kinda work on cars ( not really, as this post implies ) ) but he says that to him it sounds like it's cranking slower and harder than it normally does.

I'm willing to bet that might be it though. I'll trust anyones opinion over my own when it comes to working on a vehicle. I just don't have the experience they typically do.

I have plans to take the advice of another member who has helped me out immensly to just cut the 2 wires that need to be jumped and wire a switch into it ( a on/off rocker ) and short them like that.

Back with more info in a bit.


Thanks ( even if it is bad news, at least now I would know what's wrong I ) I seriously appreciate it.

QuickPaws

Ok.. I'm back. Cap off, cranked, rotor turned REAL slow. If you'd like I can take a video and link it. ( I've never actually watched one with the cap off... so I dunno if this is slow, or normal. ) in my ears, it looks like it's spinning slower than the sound I'm hearing should make it spin... if that makes any sense.


Just thought of this... but Toyota's will go through hell and back to do what you need them to.. but when they break... damn.


I'm starting a parts list in notepad on my PC, I'll AutoZone/Advance each part and see who's got the cheaper total. I need to be able to get everything I can (need?) in one trip (if that trip ever happens ) Feel free to add parts if it's required when/if I have to do the timing belt

QuickPaws

I'm at the mercy of someone else here....

Does anyone it would be beneficial to just change out the plugs and see if it starts?


It's the cheapest thing I can think of to try and change to see if it starts. With how it had been running prior... it might be ideal to think that the plugs are shot.

Ideas?

Also, cruising Ebay incase I win the lottery for a budget.... is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/93-95...Q5fAccessories
worth getting if I can?

JigsN Rigs

i have my money on the fact you need a tune up. i would say you need plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor... i had the same thing happen to my grand cherokee and i was told to replace that stuff first, but i thought i was all genious and and thinking that it had spark and fuel and would eventually start (sometimes wouldnt start at all) that it couldnt be just a tune up.

well i broke down and did the tune up cause i had nothing else to try and sure as she fired right up after..

:doh:

QuickPaws

Can't afford to do it all unfortunately.... I'm the only one with any income, so it falls back on me to get stuff paid. ( and I'm on unemployment ) We do live with a friend, who is working EXTREME seasonal hours right now ( nothing this week, 10 hours last week )

You think just changing the plugs would help?

I figured no ignition with spark and fuel would mean something bad happened. It was weird... it fired right up every time, no matter what until the other day when it did it's hard start, and then 2 days later nothing.

Thanks for the thoughts regardless. It's certainly on my list of things to do

QuickPaws

Mr. Jay,

Do you know what Denso plug I should use? Advance Auto has 3 Denso's listed. ( I'm hoping it's the 2 dollar one )

NGK has 4 styles at Advance... AutoZone has like 5 different listings with 3 plugs each for NGK....

Neither were helpful over the phone... -_-

Team420

So its cranking slow? according to the fsm.... that points to the ac signal circuit.... u got a/c? Also, try checking the ect sensor, and the vafm.

QuickPaws

Yeah. I have AC ( how did you even find that.... I went through both the Haynes manual AND the FSM looking for things it could be )


It does NOT sound like it's cranking slow....What it really sounds like is that tit's cranking really fast, but that the rotor seemed to turn slower than what my ears were telling me it should be turning. ( IE, motor seems to crank very fast and easy, but the rotor seems to turn slower than that noise suggests it might be spinning )

I'm debating pulling the timing belt cover to see if it's jumped time... is there an easier way to check this? ( ie, not pulling the cover, or checking something else )

JigsN Rigs

you need to pull the cover to check it. take a voltometer and check your spark plug wires for resistance while your in there. check back with us after you try that

QuickPaws

bad post.

QuickPaws

.....I'm really sorry... Thanks for taking your time to make a comment... everything you suggest is going on a list.

Unfortunately, I'm fresh off a move... with a restart of life... we literally moved across country about 2 months ago and we only brought what could fit in a small uhaul trailer There's alot of things I don't have / don't have anymore. Tools are a big one. A voltmeter is one of them as well. I know I could go get one from Harbor Freight for like 5 dollars... but both that 5 dollars AND getting the 20 miles to HF is next to impossible. My inability to do things is directly related to financial problems and my lack of tools ( due to a lack of.. finances )

Again, thanks for all the help and tips.


Alright..... here's hoping this can help.. Noise and video are great to have.

Sorry about the positioning of the camera... I'm working on this on my own.. I have it sitting on top of the air box....kinda.

Anyway... The noise you hear when I'm cranking it is the same noise it makes when the cap is on. It's not even attempting to fire.

Also, how many pickups should be inside the cap ( by pickups I mean the little silver points INSIDE the cap... ) I only count 2. Should there not be 6? ( one for each wire? )

Getting desperate... dogs are out of food.. and the nearest store is 15 miles away.
....

**EDIT**

Alright the embed code isn't working.. I don't know why. I'm sorry for having to link this out... but if someone could watch it and give insight.. I'd appreciate it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajAduzhG5f4

Team420

Found it here....

http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/1990-1995...e/troubles.pdf

Go thru the list and start testing.

QuickPaws

Awesome. Thanks. Printed and being studied and testing what I can now. If I come across an electrical component ( say the cold start injector ) can it be tested for functionality by unplugging it, attempting to start and see if ANY difference is made at all?


I almost wonder if it could be the ECM, it is listed as a suspect item. I had ( way back ) an 89 plymouth colt ( imported for dodge ) that started doing the same thing... just stopped starting and had randomly died on me prior to this. Crank crank crank but no combustion. Except it turned out to be the actual computer. ( thank you pick a part and your 25 dollar fix at the time )

JigsN Rigs

Your missing the little metal pickup points in your distributor cap... There should be 6 little metal points. 1 for each wire. If you only have 2 that's an issue, you should try and post up a pic of your distributor cap and we can take a look at it