ViperTT

i have gone through this site and have dug up all the test from the distributor to the coil to getting 3 different igniter’s!
My son traded a dirt bike for this truck and it ran when the guy drove it here! the only problem was it leaked oil from every place you could see and behind the heads!
Ok I’m a dummy i should have done this all myself but i made my son do the work! I thought it would do him good to learn how to fix his truck!
Now I am at od end as to what the hell is wrong! I know it is hard to diagnose a problem when you can’t see it!! But this is what was done.
New gasket set from the heads up new, timing belt and tensioner, new seals for the heads anything that sealed for oil or water!
New tune up kit plugs, wires, cap and rotor
Like I said I have done all the test and have checked all the ground wires and ALL THE FUSES!
But when you turn the key on the check engine light in the dash does not come on?? Is this correct??
Today I plugged in my obd code reader and it will not connect to the ecm in the truck??? I turn the key on truck in neutral and it says cant connect turn key on etc.
Ok a side note here I love my son but his attention span of fixing or working on his truck is like 30 minutes then he is off doing something else just to have my youngest son to help him were he left off!!
He had torn apart his dash to put a new clear cover on the dash gauges and he also put bulbs in all of the light holes for the instrument panels! And put a new pin to hold the tach needle from dropping all the way down!?

So what I got is power to the coil and igniter it turns over but no spark
I have check and redone the timing belt 3 times now so is there a crank sensor on this 3.0L v-6 or cam sensors outside of the distributor???
I have done the test at the ecm buy the pass side door

BamaYota1

I hope you don't expect someone to help you with a post like this.

HighLux

Ill help. Thats what we are here for.

First things first.

Check every fuse in the truck.
Check every ground underhood.
Check behind cluster to make sure every plug is connected.

Be thorough.

Report back.

Do you have a download of the factory service manual?

BamaYota1

http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b.../ignition.html

Next time at least give a damn description of what you have tried and how it happened.

HighLux

Lets help...not chastise. Its the Yotatech spirit. Its what seperates us from the apes.

ViperTT

What we did was we had to pull the heads off to put new seals on the back ends of the headsthey had plastered the caps with silicone sealer for one thing the valve covers too were gooped up with this stuff
So as I stated what was done on the motor was a strip down to the heads and new gasket set top end and then it all was put back together with the new timing belt kit the two cam pulley marks at the top marks on the back panel crank at top dead center with a new timing belt
As for testing I got all that info for how to check for the resistance test for the distributor and the coil as for the igniter I can’t find a test for that one so I got two used one for a total of three to try!
Also did the ohm test on the distributor and coil and ecm and yes I checked all the ground wires even made some new one just to make sure! I just figured if I said that I did all the checking of the testing of the distributor and coil I thought you all would know what test for this you have posted on this great site
As for what the boy’s have done when they took the dash apart??? Sorry I do not have a crystal ball here as it is I am gone for about 7 to 8 days and get home for a day and a half or two days then gone again
I am not trying to piss no one off here!!! And am not a dummy give me old school like points and condenser with no dam computer (ECM) in a car or truck and I can fix it!! but this (sorry I am an old man) ecm crap is for you young’ins!!! No I have not gotten under the dash yet my arthritis has got my brain thinking stay the hell away at all cost!
Sorry it has to be something simple or over looked
I just thought as many of this dam thing that are out here some one must have been down this road
No spark!! distributor and coil ok oh I got a new coil today and everything that needs power (12 volts) has it
So ok I am a dam dumb old man trying to fix his sons pickup can any one here help
Thank YOU FOR YOUR! HELP
Bill

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

So uhm what you did wrong here was picked a wierd text color for whatever reason. So your description isn't visible...

There I helped

Regarding the lamp, no it should come on it's either a bad bulb or an indicator of something else not hooked up or broken.

Regarding the ODB reader, if your sure it is compatible this is also an indicator of bad ground maybe. (Left hand kick panel is used for alot of things)

Regarding the sensor, yes it is internal to the distributor bt I guess you found that. It's the only one.

hate to state the obvious stuff but sometimes we over look stuff. Is the dizzy spinning, and it has a rotor on it right?

"the test at the ecm" Uhm which test(s), please be specific you know the saying about "assume" right

BamaYota1

Ok. I have to apologize. On my phone, all the original post had was a wall of nothing with a head bashing at the bottom. Thought op was being cute. For future reference, don't mess with the font color, it doesn't show up to guys like me who are primarily using mobile devices. But anyway, my bad.

BamaYota1

And I bet there is a wire or harness disconnected somewhere in the dash.

ViperTT

i do not think i messed with the font color just typed it in here!
as for the ecm the test with the ohm meter came from this site
sorry my brain can not remember that far back on the pins to check
and yes i am not trying to make an ass out of anyone here or me
or assume thack could be the mother of all frakups (you know the word)!!
i know it has to be something over looked, i hope! just not wanting to load up on artritist pills to go through this truck again and spend the next three weeks paying for it
sucks getting old!!!!
you said left panel? is that the panel by the drivers door down by the feet? i have not gone there yet! sorry for making this sound like i am trying to make you all fix this problem!! my son has taken the bed off and has striped the paint off the truck!
i would have at this point if this was not done i would have draged this dam thing into a shop!!!!!!! my bad i should have done this myself in the first place then i think i would not be pestering you all
1-done the ohm test on the disributor
2-same with coil and the tap test
3-checked all fuses, next the fuses by the kick panel will be next
4-checked the timing belt and reset it three differant times now
5-checked all wiring under the hood
6-yup the ground wires too

i will start under the dash next time i get home i will post what ever i find or what will fix the problem
last resort TNT

BamaYota1

Start at the gauges and ignition switch. You said he was messing with the gauges, very possible he left something unhooked inside.

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

BTW is this the four or six cylinder, I don't see it listed?

Here is the FSM section on testing the computer, to jog your memory maybe. You said you did these but obviously you had to of failed the ones that require the engine to be idling or hot.


Yes "left hand kick panel", I don't know if the kids were down that far to have disconnected or loosened it. Do you have the service manual? The 1990-1995 4runner one has all the nice wiring diagrams with pictures of where things are, they're not fancy 3d but they'll get you to the right area atleast.

I was thinking about the ECM tests and what could be occuring if those pass and you have no spark. For some reason an issue with the ignition switch came to mind.

Verify there is power to the "guage" and "ign" fuses, these have seperate wires running off the ignition. This will indicate there is a maybe a loose connection at the ignition switch, or maybe something they were "playing with" (eg adding a kill switch maybe), or damaged and half-"way" repaired and didn't want to tell the old man about.

The hot side of the ign fuse provides power to the coil directly, eg bypass/not thru the fuse, so you could check it there also. The guage fuse provides power for the MIL(malfunction indicator lamp, aka check engine light).


I always recommend checking fuses with a meter not the eye, they don't always completly blow or fail "spectacularly". They've also been known not to be fully seated, not that anyones incompotent it just happens sometimes, they may have puhed the terminals out the back of the holder also.

ViperTT

oh im sorry it is the 1993 3.0L v6 pickup 4x4
i got a manual from napa but it is not chiltons
i stuck hy head down there and oh man all i can say is spedagetty or spaghetti
there is a car alarm hooked up sterio wires and speaker wires running everywhere
when you turn the ing. on power is at the coil and ignitor
well thank you all for all your help here!!! this old man thanks you very much!!
i know if and or when i find the problem im going to feel like about a 1/4 inch tall
it's just have to try to fix some one else mess up and then asking some one else or a fine group of people
to help fix it to! It's just not righ to have to do it this way
but THANKS
Bill

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Arg thought we had it there with the "spaggetti...alarm" But if the coil is getting power thats maybe not it.

I'd lean towards the pickup signal from the distributor to the ignitor. On the 22re this runs directly to the igniter, in the 3v it has to go thru the computer. You can fake the signal and see if it will fire the coil off, thats about the only test for the igniter. You could also maybe monitor the IGt signal from the computer to see if it's triggering.

Here is some reading material on the ignition system, the "good stuff" eg IGt, starst on pages 4&5.
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h39.pdf

BamaYota1

The alarm might have a start disable feature. Look for two factory wires going to the alarm that are the same color where they have been cut and the alarm spliced in.

ViperTT

I am at the point that i hate toyota's!!!
i have checked all the wires and plugs i can find! still no spark coming from the coil!
i have done this test
Symptom: No Start.

Theory: The Ignition system on this engine uses a Distributor with three
Pick-up Coils inside and an external Igniter and Coil. The ECM uses the
signals generated by the three Pick-ups to control the Igniter, which
controls the negative side of the Coil for spark. The Igniter also sends a
signal back to the ECM for injector pulse.

The Test: The first place to start is to check the Pick-ups inside the
Distributor. If any of them are defective, nothing else is going to work,
not even the tap-test we're going to do later. The first step is to test
resistance on each of the three Pick-ups. You'll want to check them with
the harness unplugged from the Distributor. Identify the terminals on the
Distributor connector using the wire colors on the harness side.

Terminal-1: White..NE signal
Terminal-2: Red..G1 signal
Terminal-3: Black..G2 signal
Terminal-4: Green..G- signal

Between G- and G1, it should be 125 & 200 ohms. Between G- and G2, it
should also be 125 to 200 ohms. Between G- and NE, it should 155 to 250
ohms. All of these resistance specs are at ambient temperature. If checked
on a hot engine, the tolerances go up about 30 ohms. If any one Pick-up
fails the test, it needs to be replaced before any further testing. If all
three Pick-ups pass, we need to do a "tap-test" at the Igniter. Make sure
the connector is plugged back in at the Distributor. Go to the Igniter,
which should be mounted at the Coil. On the Igniter connector, locate the
Black/Blue wire and probe into it with a test-light. With the key on, tap
the alligator clip of the test-light on battery negative and watch for
spark out of the Coil. If you get no response, try tapping the alligator
clip on battery positive, again watching for spark out of the Coil. If
there's no spark in either case, check for battery voltage at the positive
side of the Coil. If that's okay, attach a second test-light from ground to
the negative side of the Coil and redo the tap-test at the Igniter. If the
test-light on Coil negative flashes during the tap-test, and you had
voltage on the positive side, you have a bad Coil. If the second test-light
did not flash on Coil negative, we need to check the remaining wires at the
Igniter. Make sure you have battery voltage on the Black/Red wire at the
Igniter with the key on. If that's okay, make sure you have continuity on
the Black/White wire between the Igniter connector and the negative side of
the Coil. Make sure the Igniter itself is grounded properly to its mounting
surface on the truck, no rust or corrosion. The last check will be to make
sure the Black wire does not show full continuity to ground. This wire goes
to the Tachometer, and if grounded somewhere in the harness, will keep the
Igniter from working. If all of these things pass inspection, chances are
good you have a defective Igniter. Be sure you check resistance on the Coil
to be sure we don't damage a new Igniter. The primary side should be 0.4 to
0.6 ohms. Secondary should be 10,200 to 13,800 ohms.

The Fix: Replace the defective parts determined by the above testing. Don't
forget, if you do end up replacing the Igniter, double check Coil
resistance to avoid damaging a new Igniter.

i can get spark from the coil on the test above
the distribitor test are all good from the above test

i plug in my innova 3140 ODB scan tool (code reader)
it comes on and say toyota ODB 1 then it goes into scan mode then after a while it says failure on comunicating make sure scanner is pluged in ing. is on etc.

also on the dash when you turn the ing. on the check engine light will NOT come on!!

there is power to the coil and igniter when the key is on

if i take my volt meter and test voltage at the wire plug going into the distribitor i get readings from 0.004 to 0.018

i have tested all the fuses!! i also took the computer out
and took both covers off to see if there was a burn trace on the main board and to see if there was a fuse inside that might have blown

i have added new ground wires to the firewall to the block
and from the battery to the fender
have checked all grounding spots

could it be a computer or distribitor???
or something else i have overlooked

Thank You
Bill

scope103

No CEL (Check Engine Light) is really a problem; let's work on that.

In the diagnostic connector, check that you have about 12v on the B+ connector. (key on, engine off) If not, there's either no power to the ECM (EFI fuse?) or a bad ECM. (which means you'll never get a signal to the igniter, no matter what the distributor tests out at). Put a test light on the W connector. That's the same as the CEL. If it has about 12v, that's good, and you may have a burnt out bulb in the panel. If 0v, that's bad, so measure carefully

Sorry about the code reader, so you'll need to try it the cheap-ass way (like the rest of us) with a paperclip from TE1 to E1. You'll be looking for the codes on W if your bulb is burnt out (but you need to fix that anyway). http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...85diagnosi.pdf

Good luck!

ViperTT

on the b+ in the diagnostic connector i get 11.42 volts same volts the battery has
on the W connector i get 0.00 volts
when i jump TE1 and E1 the check engine light does not come on
and yes i checked the bulb and it works

just went to the junk yard and got a ECM out a 94 4runner
and this did not help

so what is the fix for this W connector??
i am truly affraid i will not like the awnser to this

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Yep, better get the tylenol bottle handy, I don't think you're going to like it either, you might have to get under the dash.

W is the ground side of the check light, powered by the gauge fuse, it runs under the dash down to the IH1(harness connector behind the ECM, dark grey one) pin 3, between the harness plug and ecm is splice "I15" this goes to the diag port, at the ecm it's pin #5 on A/T and 8 on Manual.

Wire color is Violet.

ViperTT

Ok i got to the IH1 gray connector
the violet wire (purple) is on #3
#8 is a black wire with a red strip

i tested voltage on all the pins and slots and all are 0.00 volts to 0.02 volts

this truck is a manual trany 4x4 does that make a diffferance??
am i to take it that this wire i am looking for should be at 12 volts??

so since there is no 12 volts in this connector
what is the next step of pain and fustration??