92 runner 3.0 starts dies
11-20-2009, 03:22 PM
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92 runner 3.0 starts dies
ok, I'm baffled.
I wheel the rig several times a year and have had zero mechanical issues.
I park it after wheeling one weekend, come back 3 weeks later and issues:..
starts-dies in bout 3 seconds cold.
Do this about 21 times and start feathering throttle and can eventually keep it running,...then, shut it off (not even fully warmed up yet) and it will start and idle (albeit missing a bit) all day long no problem, but absolutely NO POWER. Can't even climb up on a trailer in LOW!
so far:
-checked fuel pressure at idle just before filter....steady 40's
-changed fuel filter
-good spark
-new plugs, wires, cap, rotor
-swapped MAF meter w/ buddy's, no change
-checked battery grounds, positive,....wires in general.
-Found a cpl misc vacum leaks......fixed those. no change
-Been up over, under around the rig looking for burnt/shorted wires....will ----continue to look.
-pulled timing cover......belt looks good as new and top 2 pulleys have marks pointing same direction
-pulled intake....throttle body flapper seems loose and moves when revved.
-at idle at least, it does appear that each cyl is contributing....pulled each plug wire and could tell an even further skip w/ each.
We did roll the distributor all the way right and that gave it enough power to actually drive it a bit.
That lasted most of a day while I wheeled what I could.....couldn't make any steep climbs though....as it got worse towards end of day.
Did have some bad gas in it earlier this year and have driven on that gas prior to this issue. Again, this issue just "happened" while it simply sat in the driveway for 3 weeks.
I did short out my winch relay box bout a year ago......shorted for around 2 min before I could get battery unhooked........VERY hot 4ga wire!
not sure if that could play a role or not, but...........again, has been wheeled and driven numerous times since that incident.
Check engine light has been on since I've owned it (few years).
Can't get any codes to pull off it.......bad ECU?
I'm out of clues.
any input would be appreciated.
I wheel the rig several times a year and have had zero mechanical issues.
I park it after wheeling one weekend, come back 3 weeks later and issues:..
starts-dies in bout 3 seconds cold.
Do this about 21 times and start feathering throttle and can eventually keep it running,...then, shut it off (not even fully warmed up yet) and it will start and idle (albeit missing a bit) all day long no problem, but absolutely NO POWER. Can't even climb up on a trailer in LOW!
so far:
-checked fuel pressure at idle just before filter....steady 40's
-changed fuel filter
-good spark
-new plugs, wires, cap, rotor
-swapped MAF meter w/ buddy's, no change
-checked battery grounds, positive,....wires in general.
-Found a cpl misc vacum leaks......fixed those. no change
-Been up over, under around the rig looking for burnt/shorted wires....will ----continue to look.
-pulled timing cover......belt looks good as new and top 2 pulleys have marks pointing same direction
-pulled intake....throttle body flapper seems loose and moves when revved.
-at idle at least, it does appear that each cyl is contributing....pulled each plug wire and could tell an even further skip w/ each.
We did roll the distributor all the way right and that gave it enough power to actually drive it a bit.
That lasted most of a day while I wheeled what I could.....couldn't make any steep climbs though....as it got worse towards end of day.
Did have some bad gas in it earlier this year and have driven on that gas prior to this issue. Again, this issue just "happened" while it simply sat in the driveway for 3 weeks.
I did short out my winch relay box bout a year ago......shorted for around 2 min before I could get battery unhooked........VERY hot 4ga wire!
not sure if that could play a role or not, but...........again, has been wheeled and driven numerous times since that incident.Check engine light has been on since I've owned it (few years).
Can't get any codes to pull off it.......bad ECU?
I'm out of clues.
any input would be appreciated.
Last edited by ALHOSER; 11-20-2009 at 03:34 PM.
11-21-2009, 06:19 PM
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the throttle body flapper being loose will cause a lean mixture at idle and lower throttle positions, but besides that idk. TPS short sounds like a possibility, or the cold start injector would be another.
11-21-2009, 07:07 PM
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Check the fuel pressure at the engine compartment, tee in at the cold start injector. See if it is the same as before fuel filter. I've had defective fuel damper restrict fuel pressure{at end of fuel rail, firewall} Really make sure timing belt right on. Exhaust restriction? Put a vacuum gauge on it and check it at idle, then power brake it, it should only be slightly less than peak vacuum example: 20"idle 15" power brake ok, 20"idle 8" power brake NFG. Crack the O2s and drive it.
12-12-2009, 05:35 PM
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Ok, new developments:
As stated, the SES light has been on since I've owned it however, couldn't get any codes out of it...couldn't get it to flash out, nor using a scanner; nothing.
Anyhow, did a bunch of poking around....ended up pulling fuel pump relay out, rapped in on the table couple times, and pulled computer out overnight, and plugged back in.
Starts just fine now and no stall........and NO SES LIGHT!
However, the thing sounds like it's running on 1 cyl and is EXTREMELY rich.
Stab the throttle a few times and rev up and it "seems" to clear itself out and idle better somewhat, but still smells rich.
Haven't driven yet.
Could I have an issue w/ the coolant temp sensor?
How about the vaccum port switch on rear of engine close to the coolant temp sensor? Those in/out lines broke off there so I just plugged them.....what does that thermal activated switch do (well I know it closes or opens vaccum there)...........should I leave both plugged or couple them together?.......I'll try both ways, but I'm assuming it was designed to operate with temperature of engine warming? I also felt for vaccum there which I could not sense at all. Should there be suction there on 1 of those lines?
ok. found this:
Ported Vacuum Switch
Another component that may be a part of your vehicle's EGR system is a "ported vacuum switch" (PVS), which may also be called a "thermal vacuum valve" or "temperature vacuum valve" (TVS). The switch controls the passage of vacuum that operates the EGR valve.
This device is a heat-sensitive switch that remains closed until the engine's coolant reaches a certain temperature. The PVS screws into the intake manifold, thermostat housing or engine so the heat-sensing element is in contact with the engine's coolant. Inside the switch is a wax plug that pushes a sliding plunger to uncover or block vacuum ports in the switch. As the engine heats up, the wax expands and pushes the plunger up until it uncovers or blocks the vacuum port. At this point, vacuum to the device that the switch controls is either applied or blocked. Severe engine overheating can damage the switch, making replacement necessary.
As stated, the SES light has been on since I've owned it however, couldn't get any codes out of it...couldn't get it to flash out, nor using a scanner; nothing.
Anyhow, did a bunch of poking around....ended up pulling fuel pump relay out, rapped in on the table couple times, and pulled computer out overnight, and plugged back in.
Starts just fine now and no stall........and NO SES LIGHT!
However, the thing sounds like it's running on 1 cyl and is EXTREMELY rich.
Stab the throttle a few times and rev up and it "seems" to clear itself out and idle better somewhat, but still smells rich.
Haven't driven yet.
Could I have an issue w/ the coolant temp sensor?
How about the vaccum port switch on rear of engine close to the coolant temp sensor? Those in/out lines broke off there so I just plugged them.....what does that thermal activated switch do (well I know it closes or opens vaccum there)...........should I leave both plugged or couple them together?.......I'll try both ways, but I'm assuming it was designed to operate with temperature of engine warming? I also felt for vaccum there which I could not sense at all. Should there be suction there on 1 of those lines?
ok. found this:
Ported Vacuum Switch
Another component that may be a part of your vehicle's EGR system is a "ported vacuum switch" (PVS), which may also be called a "thermal vacuum valve" or "temperature vacuum valve" (TVS). The switch controls the passage of vacuum that operates the EGR valve.
This device is a heat-sensitive switch that remains closed until the engine's coolant reaches a certain temperature. The PVS screws into the intake manifold, thermostat housing or engine so the heat-sensing element is in contact with the engine's coolant. Inside the switch is a wax plug that pushes a sliding plunger to uncover or block vacuum ports in the switch. As the engine heats up, the wax expands and pushes the plunger up until it uncovers or blocks the vacuum port. At this point, vacuum to the device that the switch controls is either applied or blocked. Severe engine overheating can damage the switch, making replacement necessary.
Last edited by ALHOSER; 12-12-2009 at 05:47 PM.
12-24-2009, 05:39 PM
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update
ok, well, apparently this issue is one of those that just goes away on it's own.
As it was parked inside my shop (around 55 degrees) it would start and just lope...........until I reved it up a few times.
Just for kicks, I moved it outside in the cold (been below 40 degrees for awhile now) and left it overnight, and it starts and idles perfect just like it should.
Have been starting it every morning now for about a week and all seems well.
So the the thing is back in action..........
I drove it down the highway a few times and all seems normal.
I have no clue other than maybe all the fuel additives and fuel injector cleaner I put in it, were actually making it run to hot when inside the shop.
I'll fill it back up with regular 87 and see what happens.
What a roller coaster!!!!
All in all, I have absolutely NO idea what the dramma was,.....did find a few vac lines as stated early on, but that never cleared it up.
I just really wonder if it was good ole fashion bad gas and just took it about 1/2 tank worth to clear it out.
who knows, but anyhow, it's running!
Can anyone shed some light on the thermal vaccum switch/valve at the rear of the engine?
As stated earlier, my plastic connections on it broke so I just T'd the lines together.........So not sure if the thermal activator kept it closed until it warmed up or if it's to be open (T'd) when cold and closed when warmed up.
The vac line seems to run over to the cannister that is some sort of fuel line breather or relief line back to the fuel tank.
Anyhow, I have it T'd and am just wondering if I should be plugged vs T'd. I've tried it both ways and doesn't seem to affect anything either way.
Naturally I should just replace the part, but I have to track it down from the stealership.
As it was parked inside my shop (around 55 degrees) it would start and just lope...........until I reved it up a few times.
Just for kicks, I moved it outside in the cold (been below 40 degrees for awhile now) and left it overnight, and it starts and idles perfect just like it should.
Have been starting it every morning now for about a week and all seems well.
So the the thing is back in action..........
I drove it down the highway a few times and all seems normal.
I have no clue other than maybe all the fuel additives and fuel injector cleaner I put in it, were actually making it run to hot when inside the shop.
I'll fill it back up with regular 87 and see what happens.
What a roller coaster!!!!
All in all, I have absolutely NO idea what the dramma was,.....did find a few vac lines as stated early on, but that never cleared it up.
I just really wonder if it was good ole fashion bad gas and just took it about 1/2 tank worth to clear it out.
who knows, but anyhow, it's running!
Can anyone shed some light on the thermal vaccum switch/valve at the rear of the engine?
As stated earlier, my plastic connections on it broke so I just T'd the lines together.........So not sure if the thermal activator kept it closed until it warmed up or if it's to be open (T'd) when cold and closed when warmed up.
The vac line seems to run over to the cannister that is some sort of fuel line breather or relief line back to the fuel tank.
Anyhow, I have it T'd and am just wondering if I should be plugged vs T'd. I've tried it both ways and doesn't seem to affect anything either way.
Naturally I should just replace the part, but I have to track it down from the stealership.
Last edited by ALHOSER; 12-24-2009 at 05:46 PM.
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