Jimmyjohn

scope103

I don't know, but it's easy to check with your multimeter (don't have a multimeter? No excuse for that! http://www.harborfreight.com/7-funct...ter-90899.html)

The starter relay moves around depending on configuration, but here's where it is on my '94:
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-funct...ter-90899.html

In addition to checking the relay, look for 12v on the connections that SHOULD get 12v, and a low-resistance to ground on the terminal that goes to the starter. (Probably less than 10 ohms.) If all that looks good, try connecting a wire from the appropriate terminal to 12v as I describe in my linked post. Use a beefy connection; it probably pulls around 5amps. If that spins the starter, then the connection FROM the relay is good.

RAD4Runner

Hi Jimmyjohn,
Like Scope says above ^^^ but need his link.
This is the connector on the starter solenoid that he is talking about.


Make sure you're in neutral, connect that directly to battery positive.
IF starter cranks, the problem could be with:
1) Wire between that terminal and starter relay,
2) Starter relay itself
3) Control wiring for starter relay - from ignition switch ST1 contacts.
4) Power (load) wiring to starter relay - from a fused line from battery
5) Ignition switch

Engine, and transmission info are important. Pls include in your signature.

Exactly which relay and where is clicking?
Starter relay?
Starter solenoid?

Jimmyjohn

Thanks for responding!
Scope103, I used a multimeter to check the relay, kinda spaced checking for 12v on the solenoid. I'll do that Monday. I'm not sure if everything checked out, but it did have continuity in two of the prongs and no continuity in the other two prongs. I think this how it should be. The repair manual I have is for a 91 Toyota Pickup. It showed a continuity between the 1 & 3 or 2 & 4 prongs ( can't remember the exact order). My Relay looked different, but still 4 prong.
RAD4Runner, I will run a wire down to the solenoid from the battery when I get home on Monday. I have some 8amp wire laying around. If I can get it to crank that way then I'll just pop the hood when I need to drive somewhere. LOLZ.

As to your question about where I'm hearing the click. Its from the Starter Relay in the box on the passenger side fender. I'll fix my signature too btw. Thanks for the helpful information. I'll keep ya posted.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

You really don`t need much of a wire !!

you have a 12VDC source close at hand

I bet the OP read continuity on the coil and a open circuit on the contacts

Or did you energize the relay then measure the contact pins??

DallasTX

Is it one click when you turn the key, or a series of consecutive clicks? If just one click each time you turn the key and after several it starts, then that is indicative of worn contacts.

scope103

True, but you haven't checked if the relay WORKS until you put 12v on the coil (the two prongs with continuity, most likely), hear it click, and THEN get continutity on the other two prongs. If you don't get that just replace the relay; there are really no more tests to do.

If by "8amp wire" you mean 8 GAUGE wire, you don't need that! 8 GAUGE is good for something like 100amps! You just need something around 18-20 gauge; ordinary automotive hookup wire. Mine has 1/2 of a fork-lug crimped on the end to ensure a good contact in the relay socket, without damaging the socket.

I believe DallasTX means worn contacts IN THE SOLENOID.

You don't need to check everything all at once; just check things in order. On my truck, getting to the solenoid connector on the starter is a lot of work! If putting 12v on the correct pin of the relay socket spins the starter, you know the starter, connection, and wire to the starter are all good. If it won't spin the starter, you know which direction to start looking. And you can do that test just standing by the side of the truck, not reaching in through the wheel well.

If the starter connection is good, you work in the other direction. Is the relay good? (see above) If so, do you have 12v on the relay socket connection to the coil with key to start? If not, you're working back toward the ignition switch.

Jimmyjohn

DallasTX, no clicks coming from the starter at all. When the key is turned to start the click is heard from the starter relay.
Scope103, That's what I'll do. If the power supply activates the relay and closes the switch then were in business. Ill use a jumper wire 18-20guage wire like you suggested from the battery to the relay to test er out. If thats f***ey then Ill know to replace the relay.
Can I rig something to fix this if the relay is good? I read about bypassing the system with something called a HotShot. I googled it and found this.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/classi...rank-22re.html

scope103

If the relay is good (and closing with the key to start), AND you have 12v on the pin opposite the pin to starter (so that 12v is sent to the starter when the relay closes), what does that tell you? Then I'd run the wire directly to the starter as RAD4runner suggested. If the starter now spins, you know the problem is in the 18" of wire from the starter relay to starter. So fix it!

You don't need to completely "redesign" a truck that has worked well for 30 some years. Early 4runners did not have a starter relay, and the starter was switched through the ignition switch. That's a little hard on the switch, so installing an $8 relay in the circuit was a good modification (you never need that hunking boat anchor shown in your link, but if that's the relay you have, knock yourself out. It'll work.). You, on the other hand, have the relay so you just need to find the part that has broken.

Jimmyjohn

Sounds good Scope. I'll run those tests and see how it goes. Seems really straight forward.
Thanks for your advice. I'm a pretty frim believer in the sensibility in this trucks design. Why mess with that?

wrenchmonster

Always diagnose, always. But I'd bet money on the diagnosis boiling down to failure of worn out starter solenoid contacts. This is a super common problem. If the diagnosis points in this direction, the good news is that parts are inexpensive and it's a very simple repair.

Here's a decent article: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml
And here's a decent video: or
Rebuild kits are plentiful and can be found from Toyota, FLAPS, Ebay, Amazon, etc.

Jimmyjohn

Well, I was able to get into it today. Heres what I found out:
Starter turns fine with wire applied to the solenoid from the battery.
The starter relay has continuity when the terminals that close the resistor is energized.
I Just cleaned the solenoid pos terminal and got a solid click from the starter. I think this is my golden ticket.
Ill keep at it and we may have just had a minor connectivity issue.
As you can see she is pretty dirty. Pretty bad oil seepage.

Jimmyjohn

Well, I was able to get into it today. Heres what I found out:
Starter turns fine with wire applied to the solenoid from the battery.
The starter relay has continuity when the terminals that close the resistor is energized.
I Just cleaned the solenoid pos terminal and got a solid click from the starter. I think this is my golden ticket.
Ill keep at it and we may have just had a minor connectivity issue.
As you can see she is pretty dirty. Pretty bad oil seepage.

scope103

Each to his own, but I HATE grabbing stuff coated in gritty oil. Even though I always use nitrile gloves.

As wet as that looks, you could probably improve things a lot with just a wad of paper towels. A squirt bottle with some paint thinner really helps (but most spray bottles don't tolerate paint thinner well for more than a day or two, so make sure you use a cheap one).

Side benefit? If you get it cleaned up, as soon as you start it you can SEE where it is leaking. And fix it.

Jimmyjohn

Super good news... It was a faulty connection on the solenoid positive. I cleaned it up and used some dielectric grease. Starts right up.
Thanks for all of your help Scope, Rad, Wrenchmonster, Wyoming, Dallas. Really helped out.
I think the copper is eroded a bit. Might have to replace it soon, but at lease I know WTF is going on.
Lifesavers.

RAD4Runner

Cool! May I also suggest that u check your schematic to make sure the starter relay is wired properly? Relays on 1986 to 1988 22RE manuals were WIRED WRONG AT THE FACTORY.

Jimmyjohn

I will check that. The good news in this issue is that the starter is working. Bad news is the wiring from the starter to the solenoid is bad.
I thought i had solved the problem with a little cleaning, but I believe it is the wiring or the relay now. This is a 92, but its worth a shot following the wiring around I reckon. Ill post some pics if i see anything wierd. Maybe 92s a wired wrong!

DallasTX

Anything is possible, but I believe it is unlikely the 92s are wired wrong. I have been driving a '92 since '92 and never had issues with the starter wiring. Certainly possible that over the course of 25 years, something has been re-arranged. Likewise, it is possible there were dealer installed options (gotta to love the way they add stuff on and inflate the price). For example, the dealer installed an anti-theft device connected to the starter on my truck (I have since disconnect it). It is essentially a relay wired into another circuit that prevents the starter circuit from being energized unless the other circuit is energized. If you have some strange wiring, it could be something similar. I have the 92 FSM and can send you pics of the EWD if needed but obviously after market stuff would not be shown.

Have you pulled and opened the starter/solenoid? It is a PITA, but really not that hard. Like wrenchmonster said, worn contacts are a super common problem and they are a very cheap fix, and lots of documentation out there on how to do it.

I am wondering if when you cleaned up the contacts you turned one of the internal contacts slightly and made it work for few starts? If you look at the above pic in wrenchmonster's post, you can see the outside terminal is just a copper bolt through the housing and it holds the contact in place.

Starter Contacts Motor Terminal 28226-72010 $11.40
Starter Contacts Battery Terminal 28226-72080 $14.28

RAD4Runner

Yes, please share the EWD showing wiring from ignition switch, to starter starter relay to solenoid.

Many people do not have issue with the the 1986-88's even if there is documented error (CLEARLY SHOWN IN TOYOTA SCHEMATIC) and many would not believe there is an error, because sometimes smooth mechanical operation, strong solenoid coil action and softer return spring mask the existing problem.

DallasTX

92 ewd