Junkers88

Here is what we have. A 1989 4runner, 22re, 5 speed. Last week the alt died and I had to drive it home on the battery alone, about 100 yards from the house it started sputtering and bucking since the battery was almost dead. Got it home and started pulling things off. Had the alternator tested and it smoked in the machine, bought a new one. Had the starter tested and it was fine but refused to work, bought a new one.

Now when I hit the ignition I can hear the relay click and the starter click (sound's like it's engaging the flywheel but not turning anything). The batter (Red Top) has been on charge for a while and although it's not full per the gauge it's pretty darn close. We even tried to push start it and the engine turns over and we smell fuel but nothing else happens, didn't start.

Ideas? The guy helping me suggested that I might have messed up the ECU driving it with a low battery, I hope not. All the fuses in the engine bay and under the dash (drivers side kick panel) are good. Are there others that I might have missed?

Thanks folks. This is my first major set back and I'm getting more and more lost by the minute.

Junkers88

Quick update here. Went and checked the grounds and all looks clean and tight. One question though, on the - cable from the battery is there an "ideal" place to put it? I've got mine secured via one of the motor mount bolts that go into the block.

worshipmentor

iTrader: (3)

quite puzzling........sounds to simple but i'd say start from the beginning.
check the battery cable to the starter. make sure its a good connection and getting a full battery voltage on the starter post. You say it SOUNDS like the starter solenoid is clicking/engaging the flywheel but to be sure full the plug off the starter and make SURE it is getting fire when you turn the key. The only other thing I would check is taking a test light to the starter casing and making sure it has a good ground.somewhere in that chain it has to be losing something.
let me know what you find.......or dont!

Jory121

check your main fuses you never know

Junkers88

Ok I went and re-re-rechecked the grounds and fuses, all still good. Have a friend coming over here in a few to help. Hoping to meter out some of this and see where the problem is.

peckinpah

Is everything else getting power? Dash lights, dome light, horn, turn signals, radio, headlights, brake lights? If not, that could provide a clue.

Junkers88

Everything is getting power, lights don't even dim when I turn the key.

Felt the little black box on top of the coil (ignitor?) and after a few tries with the key it gets noticeably warm to the touch.

Tried to push start it again and got nothing other than the engine turning over as it rolled.

Am pulling the starter again tomorrow to bench test it since it has stopped making any noise at all, will return it for another one if it's crapped out.

Checked the + battery cable and all looks well, will be metering everything I can get a probe onto tomorrow as well.

Thanks again for the help.

Zelephant

Starter solenoid contacts? The solenoid plunger could be engaging but still not supplying power.

Just spitballin'. You have a nice rig, hope you get it sorted.

Junkers88

Ok, got it narrowed down to three things I think.

1) The alarm. There is an old alarm in there that has been unplugged since I bought the rig, never had any issues but something might have happened inside that thing. (least likely)

2) The ECU. I've never heard of it happening but I might have roasted the ECU when the batter drained as far down as it did. (also highly unlikely)

3) Ignition switch. Ever since I've owned it this thing has had the once-in-a-while-it-won't-start problem. Sometimes I can hit the key several times and it'll work, other times I can shake the truck or stomp the floor and it works. This is my most likely prospect, I'll explain below.


The reason I believe its the ignition switch comes from several places.

1) Always had issues
2) Common fail point (I mean why would Summit make a hot shot kit if this wasn't an issue).
3) When we tried to push start it it acted just like the ignition wasn't engaged (key forward in the "run" position). This leads me to believe the ignition finally went out completely.

Ok. How to I go about bypassing the ignition? I just want to run a wire from where ever I have to over to where ever I need to to get the rig to turn over. If I can get it to start like this then I'll know where the problem is and can replace the ignition and install a hot start kit so this never happens again.


Thanks again folks.

Junkers88

Found the ignition switch and pulled it apart, contacts were a mess. So we cleaned everything up and put it back together. Nothing. Ran a wire from the ST1 terminal on the ignition switch to the starter solenoid, nothing still. Took a quick look at the dizzy cap and rotor and the contacts on both are blackened and jacked up so that explains why I'm getting no fire when we push start it, guessing the plugs are just as bad.

Will have more after we do some Ohming this evening. Right now I'm done fighting with it.


If this keeps up there will be a 1989 Royal Blue 4runner for sale.........

Rustycan

How much do you want for the 4runner!

Junkers88

I'll let you know......


So we now have a new noise. The ECU has decided that it want's to *click* rather loudly along with the starter relay and the less loud *click* from the starter....


This is turning into a nightmare.

Hadmatt54

Are you sure the ECU is clicking or the Circuit opening relay that is mounted under the dash just above it?
Also did you do a load test on your battery? The fact that you completely drained it might have done it in. I know that you measured 12 volts at the battery, but that is voltage, not current. Use the water hose analogy... voltage is the pressure behind the water flow, current is the actual water flow. If you turn off the tap there is no water flowing, but the pressure is still there!
Also check below the fuse panel at the drivers side kick panel and make sure that the EFI relay is fully seated in it's socket. If it's not you can push start that truck for the rest of your life and it's still not going to start!

Junkers88

Now that is some info I can use!

Dumb question but how can you measure the current instead of the volts? I'm guessing it's a switch on the multimeter.

I listened to the ECU and can hear and feel it *click* when I put my hand on it. The little relay above it (behind the glove box and to the left correct?) isn't making any noise that I could hear/feel.

Will remove and reinstall the ECU relay behind the kick panel as you recommended. Is it supposed to *click* also?

Thanks a TON for the help!!

James Woods

iTrader: (1)

The current is just another way of saying amps, but don't test the battery amperage with your DMM, it will for sure blow the fuse, take it to a Auto parts store or something and have them test it for you.

Junkers88

Ah... can do. I hope to heck it's not that battery since I can't afford to replace a Red Top.

92 TOY

on Joe's runner.....it sat all winter (i'm talking about last summer) and it was dead....in that it would not start. It was a new battery....less than a year old and had only put 10 miles on the truck in a year...so I was sure it was not dead. put it on the charger and it showed 100%....so I traced a ground wire and found it severely frayed and replaced it...and guess what?....it didn't start......put the charger to "jump start" and it started right up.....had enough juice to make the starter "click" but not much more.


moral of the story.......try to jump start it.

unless you re-wired something in the meanwhile I can't see what could go wrong. but then again, i could be completely wrong.

trust me....i'm a doctor (no,i'm not....I'm better than that....I'm an ER nurse)

Junkers88

Tried to jump start it yesterday off of a running vehicle.... nothing.

If it would freaking start (or try) when push starting it I would have something to go on. Hell if it would at least turn over I'd have somewhere to start....

92 TOY

boooooooo

peckinpah

Did you ever look at the plugs?