Western Canuk

Hello all,

I've been reading everything online I can for days now and checking my engine constantly and I can't figure out if i'm paranoid or have a genuine issue. Hopefully someone can give me some direction here...

I've owned my truck for 14 years now and have done nothing but basic maintenance on it. At 166 000 Km I had the head gasket / timing chain and components done on it by Toyota in 1996. Now I have 288 000 Km on it and it seems to be putting out a little more smoke then normal on the cold start (it's -2c to -5c these days) and it gives off some moisture. The front of the engine makes quite a racket for the first minute or 2 and then it quiets and I put my hand behind the exhaust pipe and it's dry. At normal operating temperature everything runs fine, engine sounds fine, doesn't smoke, no weird idling, no oil in the coolant, no chocolate milk oil.

I thought I'd lost some coolant in the last 4 months by the look of my reservoir but I had a heater core hose develop a pin hole leak and had to trim it. I bought 4 litres of coolant today and it took about 1 cup to top it off. I'm keeping a close eye on it right now.

I had the cap off the rad when I started it today and it did start to overflow in about 30 sec.

So from all the reading I've done it could be the timing chain has cut into the coolant but like I said no chocolate milk oil. Could be a head gasket but I would be expecting to see more dramatic effects of exhaust smoke or coolant loss / pressurizing.

I'm not a bad backyard mechanic but this is my daily driver and my only backup is a motorcycle. Here in Canada that means I have another 4 months to go before it sees the road.

I have off roaded in this vehicle but by no means has it been beat down hard in the past 10 years. I just got shucked by a 'professional' mechanic for $1000 to repair a fuel pump bracket (even longer story) so my funds are pretty low for head gasket/timing chain repairs. I don't want to break a timing chain either though.

I dunno I've done so much reading the past few days i'm totally at a loss.

I'd like to make it another 4 months park it and do the work myself but it seems the signs are leading maybe that's not a good idea. Should I just keep an eye on the coolant and hope for the best or is there something else I can do for a little peace of mind?

I drive about 800 Km a month so I looking for about another 3000 Km before tear down.


Cheers

myyota

Being that im in california i don`t know how much a km is compared to a mile, but in reading what you have posted, you have put 122000 km`s on the engine since the timming chain was last changed, so with that many miles on it i would say the timming chain needs to be replaced again, and the noise your hearing on start up might be the timming chain rubbing on the timming chain cover, atleast thats my guess.

Western Canuk

Hey thanks for the reply

122 000 Km works out to 75 000 miles. Which I think is kind of low to be having issues but I don't know if time (years) is a factor.

It's the exhaust that's really bugging me right now. I've driven 100 Km (60 miles) since my first post and cold the coolant reservoir is about 1/4 inch under the full line and hot about 1/4 above so it seems normal.

I'm guessing that there's a bleed between cylinders but again I don't know if I'm just being paranoid. I read through these forums sometimes and get totally freaked out.

I'm going out tomorrow with a can of engine degreaser and looking for anything unusual. Probably pull the valve cover off and try to inspect it. It just sucks this never seems to happen when I've got my bike on the road and all the time in the world to deal with it. I have no garage either so I'm standing in the snow and the rain wrenching on it and frankly I'm getting a little old for such things.

abecedarian

Steam from the exhaust is normal, and having more than 'normal' should be expected if it's colder than normal. My 88 blows steam out the pipe, at idle of course, continuously, when the temp is below about 35F or so. It goes away if I drive it at speed for a while but comes back if the engine idles more than a few minutes.

IIRC, the recommended service interval on the chain is 80,000 miles so that'd come out to about 130Km, no? Anyhow, that'd probably be the source of your noise.

As for loosing coolant... since you said it's about 1/4" above (1cm?) and 1/4" below when warmed up / cold respectively, that sounds about right. If you start the engine cold, with the radiator full, the coolant expands as the engine starts warming up so the excess would go over to the reservoir. You do realize the reservoir has "two" full lines right? The lower line is full when cold and the upper line is full when hot- if you stay between the two, you're okay.

Western Canuk

Nice to hear somebody with another '88 pickup say that's pretty normal.

I've spent the last couple days with it parked (no starting) and just been cleaning the engine, belts, pulleys , alternator, etc (after 14 years it needs some love). I just fired it up without the fan shroud and skid plate on so I could get a good look and listen at it. Even at cold start (32F low humidity) there's no chain slap going on. I was going to pull the valve cover and inspect but I neglected to get a tappet gasket and I don't want to crack it until I do. Next week I'll do that and set the valves and get a compression tester and hopefully that'll be some peace of mind.

After listening to tonnes of youtube videos last night of different 22re's and chain slap, valve tap, etc mine sounds like it pretty much rolled of the factory floor.

Most of the time the net is a great tool for finding information but sometimes it just feeds your paranoia.

Cheers

snobdds

Yea chain slaping inside the engine is pretty obvious in my opnion. A dead give away is if it does it right at start up and then goes away as the oil pressure builds up. This means there is a lot of slack in the chain and the tensioner has to have a lot of oil pressure to tighten up the chain. Timing chains are not that bad, one good full day and it can be done if you have all the parts and tools you need.

91lowyota

it may not be your timing chain it might be your tensioner, so you might as well change everything at once

flyingbrass

A few seconds of chain rattle at cold startup can be from a bad check valve in the oil filter. I had that years ago when using a bigger filter that didn't hold oil.

The filter is angled such that oil will drain out over time if its "anti-drainback" valve doesn't hold. When you start the engine, oil has to refill the filter first, causing a minor delay in building oil pressure. The chain tensioner depends on oil pressure.

Western Canuk said this happens for a minute or two at cold start, so the filter probably isn't to blame. Are you using a different viscosity or type of engine oil than you have before in similar temperatures? I'm thinking a switch from, say 5W-30 synthetic to 20w-50 dino could cause chain rattle as the oil takes its sweet time thinning out enough to become useful.

It could be from worn or broken parts. 122K Km since the timing replacement is about 75K miles, so you're probably about due to replace at least the timing set. 288K Km is about 179K miles total on the engine.

I'd pull the valve cover and look at the driver's side timing guide. Shine a flashlight down there and look for problems. Wiggle the top. It shouldn't move. If it does it's broken.

A cup of coolant lost over 4 months isn't much to get excited about, particularly when you found and fixed the leaking hose. If that was done very recently, your coolant level may drop slightly as any air left in the system from the job works its way out. Depends on how well you purged the air.

My head gasket had leaked for a long time before it became bad enough to be apparent. Even at the end, when losing about 2 cups of coolant per 4 mile trip, I couldn't see any water vapor in the exhaust with the engine at operating temperature. Couldn't smell any, or even see it at night shining a flashlight through the exhaust. The exhaust looked clean.

As Abe said, steam coming from the tailpipe after a cold start and in cold conditions in general is normal. The colder the weather, the more of it you'll see. Exhale in cold weather. You'll see "your breath." You're not exhaling more moisture than usual.

Don't obsess about fractions of an inch up or down in the overflow tank. If you have a problem (which could even be something as simple as a bad radiator cap), coolant will be down noticeably.

Keep an eye on your coolant and oil, and start reading about how to replace the timing set and perhaps the head gasket. If you keep the truck you'll have to do it someday.

Western Canuk

Thanks for the well thought out response!

I read about the oil filter check valve last night and was wondering if I should change it out. I've been using a 'fram tough guard' filter the past 2 or 3 years. It's advertised as their top tier filter and it's not an oversize filter compared to stock. I've been using 10w30 penzoil high mileage oil this last year and regular penzoil 10w30 prior to that.

I don't really do any summer driving with it since I've had the motorcycle (4 years now). Average winter temps around here are 20f - 32f.

The other thing I've been wondering about is where I park it's at a pretty steep incline. I live in some pretty crazy mountain terrain. While I did the work the past couple days it's been level. There was a serious difference at cold start today.

The coolant just caught me by surprise the other day since I don't keep a super close eye on it and that combined with what I considered more than average exhaust set off the alarm bells. I watched a friend ruin a minty 22re last year because of a head gasket and lack of caring about coolant issues.

When I was warming it up today I was taking a close look for leaks from underneath and low and behold a single drop of coolant ran down off the side of the radiator. On closer inspection as the coolant was passing into the overflow the hose at the cap it was leaking a single drop of coolant about once every 30 seconds. Not enough to notice unless you were standing there watching it.

It's just hard it's my only vehicle until summer and I live 15 miles from work. I don't want to do half ass car repairs because I don't have the luxury of not driving it for a week or 2 right now. I am going to probably do a full overhaul this summer providing all goes well for a few more months here.

Western Canuk

So if you guy could just bear with a newbie abit more....

I'd appreciate it!

So I took the valve cover off today and set the valves, new tappet gaskets (valves weren't that far off).

I inspected the timing chain. Cranked the engine clockwise to TDC and chain is tight (both sides). I can crank counter clockwise and slack the drivers side (passenger side tight). The chain guard is there and intact but it looks like just plastic inside. Time for a change? Is it feasible to wait for summer?

I plan on getting a compression tester sometime this week..

abecedarian

The stock guide is plastic, well a phenolic... nevermind.
But fortunately, it looks like the guide is still there. That doesn't mean things aren't worn and need replaced though.

I'm also going to venture out and say that both 15w and 20w weight oils are sufficient down to 0C/32F. So maybe you've just got a little bit of bottom end wear (rod bearings) and 10w is just a bit too thin. Mine sounds like someone tapping as fast as they can with a screwdriver on a tin can for about 2-3 seconds if I use 10W oil, even with a warm start, but is only a "tap tap" with 15w and never makes a noise with 20w.

peow130

My 87' is real noisy at startup, too.
And it blows steam for a good 2 minutes at startup when it's frosty out.

pruney81

^^same as my 90, I think it's just the nature of the beast. I've had 22re's that were way louder than the one I have now and I drove them hard all over the country and never had to deal with a timing chain failure and they all had over 200K and I have no idea if the timing chains were ever done or not. I'm guessing my 90 right now with 102K miles is on the original chain.

allnmstkn313

Nothing new for cold weather. Just being paranoid

If the guides are intact and chain tight no need to replace. If the guides do eventually break and hit the timing cover you'll hear a rather unmistakable sound under load.