Lanqe

First off, im about to set this thing on fire

A couple of girls wanted to go to Moab and camp and i thought it would be a good opportunity to test how much my ifs can really take while im finishing my 85.

Mid trail my engine just dies and as i try and start it, it will run for about 2-3 seconds and then sputter out and die. Ive gone through everything i know how to and CANNOT seem to find a fix. Im thinking its starting off the cold start injector but then runs out of fuel and dies. But when i pull the plugs after trying to start it for about 30 seconds or so they are sopping wet. Im about ready to rip all this bullsheet off and throw a carb on there. Someone please help me, thank you in advance.

Things I have tried and tested:
New plugs
New wires
Distributer and cap are new
checked for vacum leaks
checked for leaks between afm and throttle body
tested afm
set tps (might be bad but tested the same as before Moab)
new fuel filter
jumpered fuel pump
didnt set the b!tch on fire

any more suggestions would be appreciated. Sorry i forgot to mention it is throwing a code 14. Could this be my ECM? i can get it to run for awhile on starting fluid, so im thinking it isnt kicking the injectors on? but my plugs are soaking wet. So i would think its the afm? Im just lost on this one so hopefully a 22re jedi will chime in and help me out. This is my DD and i would love for it to be up and running as soon as possible. THANKS

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

This is just a thought but it almost seems you have a open circuit in the run side of the ignition system.Well a code 14 is the loss of ignition signal

Which means the ECU is not seeing a signal from the coil igniter which pretty much describes your problem.Know some one close to swap one and see??

The solder joints in the igniters can get brittle with age and does not take much to break one.

What happened did you hit a few hard bumps ??

Then maybe just slow and easy??

Will it keep running as long as you spray the starting fluid??

Just where are you spraying it in through the air intake??

scope103

First check for spark. The easy way to do this is with a $20 timing light (which you should already have); put the inductive pickup on the plug you care about, and if the light flashes the plug fired.

Code 14 ("Open or short in IGF or IGT circuit from igniter to ECM, Igniter") certainly suggests the igniter is not triggering (no spark), either because it is defective itself or because of a wiring problem back to the ECU. Igniters are not cheap and there is no good way to directly test one, so run the FSM diagnostics before you start replacing parts at random.

Lanqe

Well i was wheeling with ifs so its not exactly smooth. Definitely a bumpy ride haha.

Yeah I kept it running for about 15 to 20 seconds on starting fluid, but didnt want to do it for to long because i heard that stuff burns way hotter than gas and these little engines dont like it. (and yes i was just spraying it in the intake)

Yeah im almost certain im getting spark. Because it will continue to run on starting fluid. So you would think im not getting fuel? but if i try to start it a few times and pull the plugs they are wet. If i can do any more testing to dial it in to the igniter i would like to order one ASAP. Is there a way diagnostic on it that is covered in the FSM?

Thanks for everything so far. This thing has been 1 problem after the other

scope103

As in, you disconnected the pipe between the VAF and the throttle body? If you did that, the VAF is not sensing the air flow, and the fuel pump will not continue to run after letting go of the key. (You might have wet plugs because the residual pressure in the rail is enough to wet them, but too lean to keep running).

Code 14 shouldn't appear WITH spark. You can get spark for about 8-10 revolutions if the problem is just in the IGF side, but the ECU shuts down the IGT to the igniter if it doesn't get the confirming IGF. Therefore, it wouldn't run on starting fluid. SO .... pull the EFI fuse for about 30 seconds to reset the ECU just in case 14 is a stored code.

Lanqe

i reset it and the code came back. i pulled my k&n cone filter off and sprayed a little in there. When running on starting fluid as soon as i touched the throttle it would die.

scope103

sb5walker says http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/80...g-igniter.html that the 22re has a VAST system rather than ESA. He believes the igniter can generate spark signals to the coil for a few seconds based solely on NE, even if IGT fails. But, without the IGF to the ECU, the ECU shuts down the injectors. (And, presumably, throws 14.) He concludes that the engine will run for a few seconds then quit, from lack of fuel. (Hence running with starting fluid.)

You could have a partially bad igniter (it's still generating spark based solely on NE, though), but the first place I would look is for the IGF signal back to the ECU.

Yes, it's multimeter time.

Lanqe

Messing around with the idle mixture screw and playing with the timing i can sometimes get it to run for a little while longer but it really struggles and then stumbles and dies. I will see if i can find a good FSM tomorrow and break out the DMM

Lanqe

I switched out the ignitor and coil with a good working one and nothing. Still throws a code 14. Can anyone point me in the right direction with how to begin testing the harness? What exactly am i looking for? wires grounding or just conductivity

Lanqe

Also could this be a problem between between the distributor and ignitor? involving the NE signal?

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I am looking at this from the fuel side issue as you mentioned about it. Scope103 and wyoming9 will be far better for the electrical issues as that is a weak area of mine.

A descent way to see if you are getting plenty of fuel is to jumper Fp and +B and with the fuel line at the back of the fuel rail pulled off, see if it will fill a quart jar in a minute or so. If it does, most likely you are getting plenty of fuel and that is not the issue. The fuel systems in these trucks get dirty from the fuel tank and all the way thru the lines and back to the tank.
Fp +B Fuel Pump Test for 87 and newer. Use a paper clip for better results.


The ground on the manifold is to the injectors and I would check all grounds as Toyotas love there grounds.


Your first post you mentioned your injectors. Here is how I check for a pulse>>> https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...t-22re-270857/

Unless the computer has gotten wet, it is the last thing I would suspect as it is a solid piece of equipment from my experience. Even in the FSM, the test for the Igniter is not the best. I just keep a spare from the boneyard and swap it out. Haynes Manual has a great test for the coil if you would like to see if it is passing. I would suspect the coil before the Igniter. Twice I have seen a coil make a plug fire but not hot enough to ignite the fuel.

Other thing I check for non firing injectors>>>> https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post51897320

Past experience on a coil. Seems like the secondary passed.
I ran some test on my Igniter and the coil is showing bad on the primary terminals. I am getting 0 ohms and should have .4-.5 ohms. I am going to use the coil assembly off of my flat bed to see how things will go. I was getting a spark at the plug and the manual says if there is spark it should start. I have run into this in the past where I got spark and the motor wouldn't run. That was on a Ford. Hoping things go the same way on this one.

jennygirl

Good info, Terry. This is on my list

gunpilot

Check the injector wires like on this post #15
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f120...ing-up-245892/


This was my issue. Re connected injector wire splices and good to go.

Lanqe

Were you having the same symptoms?

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Jenny... The first time I had to deal with an injector issue, it took me a while to figure out the system and wish I could of found some of this information when I had issues. It was a tough problem for me but I learned the fuel and injection system well.


Lange... This may not be your problem, but it could help eliminate a possibility if you have to go this far on testing the injectors. You have not by chance run any fuel cleaner recently have you? I have seen where that will break up 20-30 years of gunk in the tank and clog the injectors. One reason I don't suggest running fuel cleaners in these trucks if the tank has not been cleaned out.

To test and clean my injectors, I take a 9 volt battery and by touching the leads a second at a time, it will operate the injector. With a rubber hose attached to a syringe and the syringe filled with cleaner. I put pressure on the syringe and touch the injector to the battery for a second. This will open the injector and let me know if it is functioning. It also cleans the injector.

You can also attach the rubber hose to the outlet side of the injector and back flush it. It takes a couple of extra hands to do the whole operation or I use a vise to hold some of the components to do it. You can use clips to hold the battery or injector connectors if you don't have a spare connector laying around.

There are some screens on the inlet side of the injectors that I have seen get clogged with rust and not let the injectors flow. There is a kit on ebay that sells the seals and screens for these injectors if you cant get the screens cleared out.

gunpilot

Yes. Same issue. Initial crank runs for 2 seconds. It is probably due to fuel from some injectors getting by. Then crank but no start. Starts with starting fluid. Plugs were wet. The corrosion on the harness prevents a perfect ground for the injectors. Redid the splices and easy fix.

I also did a similar set up as in above post to clean injectors. Found a syringe to fit over injector. I used a rubber hose to connect large part of syringe to injector. The red pipe off carb cleaner fits perfect in the needle end of syringe. When you spray the cleaner, it creates a pressure. Then use a battery to activate injector. Should spray out cleaner in the syringe. I wired battery to injector with homemade clips and put an inline push button switch to activate injector.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

To eliminate the injection/fuel side, I would

Remove the crimps.
Use the LED to see if I was getting a pulse.
Do a resistance check on the injector.
Flush the injector to see if it is operating.

After that I would start to look at the firing side of the system.

Lanqe

I am checking the splices and injectors right now. But do you think clogged injectors would happen so sudden? I feel like with fuel cleaner it would run like blah for a little while. Also would bad injector wiring cause a code 14? Wish me luck

Lanqe

I should be happy. But im just more frustrated. Fuel side is looking good. Splices looked good but i fixed them anyway. Cleaned fuel rail and injectors tested out good. I just want to say THANK YOU for all of the help so far. Where next?

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Looks like you got your injectors in good shape. Just to answer your previous question about all the injectors getting clogged, I have seen it happen twice. These fuel systems get nasty. The tanks and line get build up and looks like rust but in my opinion it is chemical build up. You can clean the tanks and wont find any pitting. It looks like rust but isn't. On pickups, the mud gets on top of the tanks and that will cause rust holes.

I try to post answering more then one question for the next guy sometimes. I don't understand the firing side of the system as well so am looking for suggestions on that as well. In the mean time I would check my timing, vacuum leaks and what you can on the firing circuit.

This is not as bad as some cases I have seen in the fuel systems but gives and idea what they look like. I have seen build up in the bottom of the tanks 1/4 inch deep. An aggressive fuel cleaner can break up all the gunk in the tank and clog the injectors. Jason in tn went thru that fairly recently in his build thread.