xxxtreme22r

chef, I've got to thinking you might be on the right track with the FPR. Hopefully you will get this licked.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Well, I guess the only REAL WAY to check this is with a fuel pressure test kit. I have a Fuel Pressure Gauge, ...but it's for a mechanical one, not EFI(big diff, I hear, lol). I got this one for vacuum, actually, and it works just fine, but it wont work for the fuel,...can't take the pressure and no fittings, anyhow, lol. Waiting for today for my buddy to lend me his(he has to bring it by and he's VERY busy with divorce and other things), but if he can't, anytime REALLY SOON, i'm just going to buy one. Heck, at least I'd have it, right?

To be honest, I'm not so sure it's fuel pressure related. COULD BE WRONG, but I wont know until I test the pressure and, well, someone said "if there's no fuel in the vacuum line then it's fine".....so I guess I'm fine, according to them, ....no fuel in that VSV line to the FPR. That part is NOT CHEAP, so I hope it's not it, but if it would fix it? ....."I'LL TAKE FPR FOR 120$ ALEX!" hahahah.

Kiroshu

It could very well be the Fuel pressure regulator.... Do you have a fuel pressure gauge test kit or can get one? Have you tried unplugging the vac line on the regulator. The fuel pressure could be low as a internally leaking regulator would cause. If you unplug the vac line and it seems to run better it could very well be it. If you can get a fuel pressure gauge and tap it in and if you unplug the vac line of the regulator the fuel pressure should slowly go up. If not then well theres the issue. What about your cold-start injector? Have you messed with it any? It could very well be leaking extra fuel into the intake while warm when its not supose to. Fuel pressure Regs are not to expensive so if you just want to throw parts at till its fixed you can buy one and see. The fuel pressure on your truck should be about 34-37psi. I'm still leaning toward AFM though. Just from what i see in text.... Now a video....

xxxtreme22r

when I originally thought of the time switch and such the next in line would the the regulator.

Did you say you already replaced the CSI?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

^^^ post above yours, Kiroshu. Thanks man, and no, I don't have a FP-Test kit, details in my post above yours. Also, yes, I've unplugged the CSI connector while running and it didn't change anything,(more details above as well on that..) ...KEEP CHIMING IN if you think of anything, Kiroshu, I'm just not able to do the Fuel Pressure test until I get that kit from my homie, ...or just go buy one. The OEM FPR is 96$ wholesale, with my account# they gave me. Usually 120$ or so. So, it's about the same price as the TPS he gave me to hold onto in case I find that's my issue.

PS> PRAYING FOR UPS TO PULL UP WITH MY AFM soon!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

I'm going to test the time switch again today when I have time. As far as the CSI, I had RC Injectors do it(walked it in...walked in to pick them up, they're right down the road, lol), and they gave it an "Excellent" rating. I also, if you remember, had to tear it all down again due to a piece of something dislodging and clogging shut my #2, newly redone injector. Member that nightmare? lol. It was worth it, because, remember my wrap around coolant pipe was leaking and intake as well? Now all that's fixed and it's still doing this, so I'm not sure it's NOT the CSI or time switch, ...but I'm not sure it is, either, lol. Plus, NO STANK smell from the exhaust, and no smoke, WHATSOEVER, ..it really smells like, well, NOTHING, actually. I can literally breathe it in and it doesn't choke me out at all. I passed smog before I even rebuilt the nasty clogged up sucker, so I would imagine it's even cleaner, now. I guess that's what has me so confused, and not being able to hook it up to a "nox, etc" machine, it's hard to tell how rich, etc.

Think I'll also pull my plugs again, today, just to check em for anything....I'll take pics, too.

Kiroshu

Hmm i remember them being cheaper than that... Been a while i supose... Did you try the vac line like i said on the FPR? You can unplug that CSI connector but whos to says its not damaged/sticky/with trash and leaking anyway? Did the truck sit for a long period of time before and or after your rebuild? What about the fuel pump? Is it new? Did you replace it new then have the truck sit for a long time? How long have you let the truck run at idle in this condition? Have you let it run for more than 20 mins? If the fuel pump is gummed up from old gas or trash is could be overheating and the fuel pressure would drop off and the truck would seem to run very lean... and in some cases the car would cut off totally but to check this <--- you need to run the truck for like 30 mins+ if it will run that long.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Kiroshu, here is the post, #8, on page one with the readings for AFM and TPS….

0mm: VTA-E2- 2.5 initially > held at .65 at end
.57mm: IDL-E2 - 3.6-3.4-2.4> held .01 at end
.85mm: IDL-E2 - began with 5, held .01 at end
Fully Open: VTA-E2 - Held 4.21 at end
(" ?) : Vcc-E2 - Held 5.68 at end

AFM;

E2-Vs at 75degrees --- 32 to 70 then held at .2
E2-Vc at 75degrees --- 23 to 27 then held at .2 -(when removing the prod's one time, jumped to 180, but never again)
E2-Vb at 75degrees --- 33 to 43 then held at .3
E2-THA at 75 degrees- Held at 2.2
E1-Fc --- It read nothing, meter reading didn't change from display(is that infinity?) I'll read again, must have missed it.

Also important(I THINK, lol) to mention is that the dealer pointed out to me that the adjustment screw on the AFM had been sealed up with Black RTV. The top of this hole is cracked off(size of a large pea piece), but doesn't appear to have any cracks through the meter itself. Also, the screw inside that hole appears to have been adjusted at times. Also what might be important? It runs when that screw is FULLY screwed clockwise(all the way down, not out, same as how the throttle adjustment screw adjusts...WHICH IS OUT QUITE A BIT, bout 1/5" of it showing from the side)

**********************************

Here are the links for the resistance, etc., they SHOULD have…..

TPS link; http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml

AFM link; http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AFM/index.shtml

*********************************

Some vacuum pump and gauge testing;

Ok, so I got a MityVac Pump-Test/Bleeder kit and then, first, I checked the EGR, by checking whether it held vacuum and whether it was open at warm-up. It held strong at 12". When warm, I disconnected the vacuum line to it, checked the line and it had NO vacuum unless I had it up in RPM's. Even then, it would fall, even if I kept the idle to it.(Is that normal? It doesn't say in the instructions). The BVSV switches vacuum to it or not from the vacuum rail bolted to the intake, right? Anyway, then pulled the vacuum line to the EGR(fully warm) and it didn't change idle. Then plugged the feed line and Pumped 10" Air into the EGR, at 2000rpm's, and the engine wanted to die(instructions said that's good).

I then thought I'd test the BVSV and when warm, hooked Pump to bottom tube and gauge to upper tube, pumped air into the lower tube and the gauge read 10" Vacuum(Instructions also said that's good,....but the vacuum didn't hold strong and the instructions didn't mention that. Wondered if anyone had a thought on that one?)

Ok, so next I'm going to read up on checking the fuel pressure and then, see if'n it's an issue. Still seems to be 'coolant temp/vacuum' related(VSV or otherwise, maybe?

****************************************

The FPR checking I did, thus far;

I just came in from doing the vacuum test that 4Crawler suggested. When hooking the vacuum line from the "VSV?" to the Fuel Pressure Regulator, when cold, it read 15" and crawled up to 18" and held, pretty quickly. While doing this, I noticed that when removing the tester, it would idle up slightly, then back down slightly when plugging again.

THEN; I noticed it was going into that ‘after a minute running like crap, loop“.(within 1 min. max, it does this, as it did this time as well), and noticed that the vacuum pressure going to the tester was dropping in tandem with the rough running spasms by the motor, .....from 18" down to 15", then jump back up to 18" when smoother(the motor ). Then, I removed the vacuum line from the tester, leaving it open to suck air, and it would smooth out, idle up and while it was still having a lil hiccup/miss, it was something most people wouldn't worry about too much(pupping in the exhaust, NOT POPPING, JUST PUPPING, LOL....like it does, every few seconds or so, not in any constant repetition----erratic pupping and not constant, ok???// lol)

THEN; I tried one more thing, not sure what it's telling me but whatever, right? I hooked the hose back to the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and it dropped to 500rpm's again, wanting to bog out and seeming like it's missing, etc. When I'd remove it again, it would idle back up to 750-800(sorry, the idle screw is IMPOSSIBLE to get right at the moment...it isn't getting enough air unless I have it out quite a bit, kwi-mean?).

Also, by this time, it had entered that warmed up, running like crap LOOPYPOOPY NIGHTMARE, and had been in it for a while, Yet STILL, when removing the vacuum to the FPRegulator, it seemed to idle back up again. However, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be reading from this, so I'm just guessing, but it seems that something between the VSV(RIGHT????...THE Green sucker on the valve cover with a few lines, including the one to the FPRegulator)...something between that and the FPR or something that is related to reading those three is FUBAR! Could it be that the either the FPR or VSV are not operating properly or that something related to reading them(ie. coolant sensing thing, like the BVSV or something) is FUBAR?

*********************************

Repost of Symptoms;

1. When cold, it ALMOST purrs..not perfect, but pretty dang close.
2. Still, it's ok when cold, but within a minute it goes into that loop(NOT SURE that has anything to do with it...but seems so), where it will idle down(takes about 5 seconds or so, not immediate)..sputter and seem to miss and, well, RUN LIKE CRAP, thereafter that first minute.
3. It doesn't stall, but that's probably because I have the idle-air screw out so much just to keep the idle up.
4. When running this way, if I back out the driveway and head up the street, it will BARELY want to move, until about 3000rpm's(sometimes, 2500) and then BAT out of hell, like a powerband. 2nd gear, same thing, then third, it's smoother, but still not all it should be. By the time I get around the block, park it, ....it seems to be purring(tiny miss but nothing SCARY).
5. It will purr when 'DRIVEN OUT OF THIS HICCUP', at idle, for about a minute(more if I'm lucky, like tonight...3 MIN! i know, i know, lol). But, eventually, the idle drops back down and it's the same old thing...AT IDLE! If I drive it at this point, it doesn't hesitate, etc., anymore, ...but it doesn't want to keep a smooth-750idle.

ONE IMPORTANT SYMPTOM(REACTION) TO MENTION; .........

Whenver it's doing this, whether warm or hot, if I kill the motor, restarting it, ...it will idle SMOOTH for about 5-10 seconds, MAX! Then, it eventually idles back down to WHATEVER THIS IS!

I've tried advancing it and screwing the Idle Adj. screw back in and then out to specs, .....NONE OF THIS HELPS! I have to find the postings on my build thread for the Coil Readings, etc., .....because as I remember, the only "ODD" ones I obtained were from the TPS and AFM....(had a strange one from the CSI Time switch, but I was just reading the meter wrong). Since then, I've retested things, ....A LOT! Just running out of ideas.

****************************

That should get it all caught up to where I’m at, guys…I hope it helps in some way. Any questions and I’ll clarify. I know it’s a bit of reading, but if any of you wouldn’t mind catching up on that, it’ll probably help answer some of the questions I’ve already offered a few times. But please, if you don’t have time to read it, just ask and I’ll FIND THE ANSWER, promise! Lol.

Thanks again, guys,

Mark

PS> Napa has a remanufactured AFM for 199$, out the door. If the one I’m waiting for in the mail isn’t good, and I’m pretty sure mine is bad(or at least not reading right), I might check that out.

PSS> Kiroshu, I had RC Injectors do all of them, including the CSI, and they all came back to me with 'Excellent' readings. I walked them in, so no 'mailing damage', but sure, anything is possible. Just kinda figured I'd eliminated that for the most part. And, keep in mind, I have NO black smoke or stink from the exhaust....Just a lil miss and pup on rare occasion when it's smooth, and even when it's rough, it's nothing too stinky. Plus, if it was built up fuel, from CSI or otherwise, wouldn't turning it off and then on again make it even harder to start, ...not easy and then smooth for a few seconds? Any thoughts GREATLY appreciated.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Sorry for the long post, guys, but it's just that, well, I was getting lots of questions that I've covered, so I thought I'd just post EVERYTING, ya know? Might have missed some stuff, but just ask and I'll provide it!

Took me 1.5 Minutes to read it, ...not too bad, so please don't run off bcuz of all the text? PLEASEEEEEEEEE? LOL.

Thanks again, Guys,

Mark

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

UPDATE:

I just went out to start it up(to test a couple things), and it barely wants to stay running at this point, and it's popping fairly well in the AFM as well(backfiring that's called, am I correct?)

So, now I can't even keep it running to check out the FPR(I might be able to check it with the key in "ON" position, I'll check, but this is really just pushing me to my whits end guys.

Thanks for any thoughts on all I've posted above or now, with the "POPPING in the AFM and barely running".

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Honestly? I've nearly reached my limit on time that I can keep screwing with it, guys. I have shown, I think, that I'm not a quitter, but this has nothing to do with that, any longer, ....I HAVE to get my truck running, quickly, before I create tension in a place where I've lived for 8 years without creating EVEN A WRINKLE of stress for them. It's more about the principle, I think, as they don't really drive much any more.

I talked to Jimmie, asking "Where is that AFM?", and he mailed it, so I'm just waiting. But, I can't be sure that's my problem in the first place, ...it would just be nice to rule it out, if this thing has good readings, etc.

I drove it around for about 10 minutes last evening, after doing the fuel pump, and it was acting the same as before. Now, with it barely wanting to run and popping in the AFM, I'm really lost, unless that AFM was the problem all along. The ONLY thing I can think of, relating to the AFM, is that it's about 15* Hotter, today, than it was yesterday, ....so maybe how it's reading ambient temp has something to do with it?

Guess I just have to WAIT on that AFM and go from there. Really like test the Fuel pressure, and I haven't had a chance to read up on all that's entailed, but I will here after I'm finished with doing dinner.

Hope to have good news soon, .....I just don't know at this point what's next!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Popping in AFM? Barely wanting to run and stalling? Anyone? hahaha. Hopefully that DANG UPS TRUCK WILL PULL UP SOON! I better compose myself, ...I might run out there and tackle him/her. The normal guy is cool, he walks up and peeks in my hood, telling me stories of his RX8 and all the stuff he's doing. He actually helped me out one day! lol. Anyway, just waiting, and now, I'm going to head out and do the 'listen to the' FPR test, to see if it's operational. Got the whole day, ....but without that AFM, it's kinda useless, lol.

Take care, guys, hopefully I'll have better news, soon!

kiyobrown

Got my fingers crossed Chef.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

GUYS, PLEASE READ AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK? EVEN IF IT'S JUST, ''NO FRIGGEN CLUE'', OK?

UPDATE: I'm not sure if this is important, but IT WAS TO ME! Last night I pulled the ground and went to bed, really tripping out cuz it would BARELY run!(AFM popping like crazy, etc.) WELL........, just now, I went out and it started, stayed purring for about 2 minutes(LONGEST IN A WHILE!) and then idled down. The entire time I had my ear on the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and it was TICKING AWAY!(book says listen for injector like sound, it will CONSTANTLY do that when it's working in part....still have to check the fuel pressure though to be sure). Then, I drove it around the block, ...SAME THING AS ALWAYS, it smoothed out and ran ok, even idling smooth for the normal 30seconds or so when I pulled it back in the garage. It then idled down, I checked the FPR for 'Pulse' as the FSM puts it, and it was STILL pulsing away, not erratic, very consistent.

With it still running, I pulled the CSI connector, gave it throttle to force out any extra fuel for about 10 seconds, ...NO CHANGE!

So, I think I can rule out;

1. Cold Start Injector
2. Fuel Pressure Regulator(Still have to Fuel press. test....so HALF RULE OUT)


I'm going to try to read the BRAND NEW Denso O2 again, just to be sure, see if I get goofy readings....NEVER KNOW! But I doubt it, then I can rule that out.

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE;(COULD BE, LOL)

Yesterday was the first day of the new fuel pump, for one. Secondly, I cleared the codes for pulling the TPS and AFM(multi-meter checked for any connector to "BODY" of AFM, ...came out ok, but the readings still seemed GOOFY!) Thirdly, and what I think might be most notable. ..........IT WAS NEARLY 90* YESTERDAY! In fact, until about 9pm it was still 80* in the garage. Today?....60-62* SINCE I'VE BEEN OUT THERE!

Not sure, but I think I'm on to something here, regarding Ambient Temp. The AFM Ambient Temp. Cone CAN NOT be replaced as a part on the AFM, you have to change the WHOLE THING! And, when it's reading improperly, or NOT AT ALL AT HIGHER TEMPS(maybe?), it's telling the ECU, "IT'S REALLY HOT OUT, ....LEAN IT OUT"(OR WHATEVER it would tell it, I don't know, lol) When it's Cold out, it's telling the ECU something that makes it run better, but it's still erratic, possibly? This might have NOTHING to do with coolant temps, because it happens SO QUICKLY after starting it up(within a minute, sometimes less, sometimes more....Today, more).

I'm guessing, but WHY NOT, RIGHT? Either the AFM is so screwed up internally that, it's telling the ECU something COMPLETELY WRONG, or it's malfunctioning due to improper resistance and WILL NOT operate once it 'STOPS NEEDING SO MUCH AIR, LIKE INITIALLY WHEN FIRST STARTING IT", ...MAYBE? ORRRRRRRR, the ECU is SCREWED UP, and it's not reacting to the readings it's getting properly. I'd lean more toward AFM, or maybe TPS not reacting to AFM(or vice versa), because when I drive around the block, it's fine for a minute, and in fact, it's fine during driving for the most part(TINY bit of missing power, but no crazy missing during driving, unless I'm steady in 5th gear or something-Then I can feel a TEENY jumping here and there--{Recently read "My Trucks Story" guys thread, and he replaced the TPS because he was having some of my symptoms, so not sure on that yet} )

Unless my VSV or BVSV or FPR are having issues that I'm just having trouble reading, ....it seems REALLY ODD that the truck will run MUCH BETTER when it's cool out. And, as I said, I can't be SURE it's coolant temp related, because TODAY, WHEN IT'S 60* OUT.....it's still doing it fairly quickly, which would either have to be engine temp(86* to go into that ECU loop, right?), then FULLY WARM, 180* or whatever, it's seemingly ok while driving, but when it sits, AT ALL, at idle, ....back down to CRAPOLA!

PS> Hey Kiyo,

THANKS! I'LL TAKE THOSE CROSSED FINGERS AND MATCH YOU AN ENTIRE CROSSED HAND SET OF 10! HAHAHA. In fact, I'm crossing my toes as well!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Just an ADD NOTE: PLEASE READ ABOVE POST????^^^^^^^^

Also; USPS just drove up....NOTHING! GEEEEEEEEZ, I can't wait for them to take over my healthcare!!!!

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Latest Update;

I'M AN IDIOT! lol. Jk, but really, I WAS, IN FACT, reading the Multi-Meter wrong!(OH WELL, I'm learning, give me a pass....PLEASE? LOL...Ok, rail away, whatever, lol) . I went and got resistors from Radio Shack for 99c and actually verified this for myself, on accident! lol. So, when rechecking the AFM readings are all within specs! DANGIT! No, I'm ok with thattttttt, ...it's the fact that I thought I was on to something and WAS NOT! LOL.

I'm going to re-test the TPS, now, but I think I had read that one properly, ...and it was all within specs as well.(Barelyyyyyyyy on a couple readings, but nonetheless nothing 'WACKED OUT WACKY', ya know?

Earlier, before heading out to VOTE, I tried pulling the plug wires during the hiccup, to see if I had anything weird showing up, like NO SPARK at times or "no changes" during pulling a wire....and no go, they were all CRAZY SPARKIN! lol.

So, let's say the AFM and TPS are ok;

ANY THOUGHTS? PLEASE? I'm willing to try ANYTHING, and I'm still waiting on the Fuel Pressure Gauge, ....but anything else? Something EGR related? VSV? I still find it wacky that the AFM was popping and all when fully warm. I'm going to warm up the truck good and check the AFM again, ...I JUST DON'T TRUST THAT MICKEY MOUSED LOOKIN THING! LOL.

Did everyone give up on me? , hahaha

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

NEWER'ER update: hehehe.......

An acquaintance who works at Napa just stopped by with a TOTALLY REMAN'D AFM and let me try it out. NOTHING! Same stuff, diff' day! Soooooooo, I'm pretty sure I can rule out the Air Flow Meter as being FINE!

So, .....WHAT NEXT? any ideas?

mel63

Mark,

Hate to be so persistent on my solution...but during my troubleshooting of similiar symptons, the tps had similiar readings for the resistance. I removed the tps from the throttle body and noticed that as I manually rotated the tps, the movement was very irradict. The rotation of the internals of the tps was not smooth and was kinda jumpy.

My $0.02 is to replace the tps.

Good luck.

Mark

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

MARK, ....BE PERSISTENT! LOL. What I mean is, I'M TOTALLY overwhelmed, not so much with the Truck, alone, but more so the combination of working 12+hrs.-6 days, caring for both parents every other spare minute(I prepare all their food as well as drive them all over) on top of having 20 and 18yr. old daughters, A GRANDKID, .....and so I'M FORGETTING A LOT! lol. DANG I need a good woman! lol.

Anyway, I THINK I WILL IN FACT, Mark, try out the TPS I have.(OEM dealer)....and my buddy said I can use it if I use plastic washers just to test it out, so that I don't make any markings on the brass pivot/slides for the adjusting screws. Either way, I'm going to get those allen screws from 4Crawler. They seem VERY SMART to use and easy to remove and adjust without stripping the orig. suckers! lol.

Thanks, Mark, I think I'm really to the point where it's either the TPS or something EGR/Vacuum/Temp related. I also find it very odd that when I unplug the vacuum to the FPRegulator, the idle jumps up when it's behaving, and down when hooking it back up. 4Crawler told me that it should be smoother when that's hooked up, because, well, obviously it regulates the fuel pressure to the injectors, etc.

Hopefully I'm getting to an answer, here! I'm going to remove the Tbody tonight, if I have time, because it's back in that mode of 'issues' where it BARELY wants to run, backfires and is even misfiring! I guess I can also check the coil and pick up again. WHY NOT, EH?

WHAT WERE YOUR SYMPTOMS AGAIN, MARK? Sorry, I just can't remember.

yotarob2005

I am surprised that the AFM didn't fix it. Are you sure to reset the computer after every parts change? I guess I would say to go ahead & replace the TPS and see what happens. You are bound to find the problem really soon Chef, we are running out of possibilities here.