3vze won't run right with correct timing
11-18-2012, 10:08 AM
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3vze won't run right with correct timing
Hello from the new guy. I have a 92 truck with 200K on it. It has the 3.0L motor and is 4 wheel drive. It has been a great truck, few problems. I had a tough time passing smog last time because when my timing is correctly set it runs like crap. I found a guy that passed me with my timing fudged.
So, I installed a new timing belt as it was due and was hoping it would resolve my timing issue. It did not but now my exhaust stinks. I have to set the timing to about 20º BTDC in order to make this truck run ok. With the timing set correctly it makes no power and runs like crap. I am using the correct procedure to set the timing, jumper, light on wire #1. The idle drifts a bit but overall is smooth. Has original wires, distributor, and all emmisions are original...O2 sensor etc. The timing needed to be advanced with both my old belt and the new one. I am 99% sure I have the belt timing ok.
Any ideas appreciated. I need to get a sticker on my truck. It's just sitting in the driveway unused. The wife wants me to sell it. I see no reason to part with my old friend.
Steve
So, I installed a new timing belt as it was due and was hoping it would resolve my timing issue. It did not but now my exhaust stinks. I have to set the timing to about 20º BTDC in order to make this truck run ok. With the timing set correctly it makes no power and runs like crap. I am using the correct procedure to set the timing, jumper, light on wire #1. The idle drifts a bit but overall is smooth. Has original wires, distributor, and all emmisions are original...O2 sensor etc. The timing needed to be advanced with both my old belt and the new one. I am 99% sure I have the belt timing ok.
Any ideas appreciated. I need to get a sticker on my truck. It's just sitting in the driveway unused. The wife wants me to sell it. I see no reason to part with my old friend.
Steve
11-18-2012, 12:58 PM
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This is the 2nd timing belt on this truck. It get plugs every couple of years. Oil not as often as it should but it gets changed. Other than that, if it isn't broke I don't fix it. So, O2 sensor and emissions stuff is original. Same with plug wires, it runs smooth so I haven't changed them. Along with the timing belt I replaced the water pump, thermostat, idlers and radiator hoses. So I am a bit negligent but could be worse.
It is possible the timing has always been set this way and I never knew until a smog shop wouldn't pass me because the timing was off. So I set it at 10 BTDC and it ran badly, knocking, no power. So I put it back. I was hoping the timing issue was caused by an old loose timing belt. That wasn't the case. The only weird thing was the exhaust didn't smell bad until I changed out the timing belt. Doesn't smell like rotten eggs or anything like that. It smells like driving behind a old classic car with no smog controls on it.
My problem is to pass smog I need to set my timing right. The smelly exhaust is an issue and I need to fix that also.
Are you suggesting the distributor might have been installed a tooth off when it was built?
I will look into the TPS. Thanks for the suggestion.
Steve
It is possible the timing has always been set this way and I never knew until a smog shop wouldn't pass me because the timing was off. So I set it at 10 BTDC and it ran badly, knocking, no power. So I put it back. I was hoping the timing issue was caused by an old loose timing belt. That wasn't the case. The only weird thing was the exhaust didn't smell bad until I changed out the timing belt. Doesn't smell like rotten eggs or anything like that. It smells like driving behind a old classic car with no smog controls on it.
My problem is to pass smog I need to set my timing right. The smelly exhaust is an issue and I need to fix that also.
Are you suggesting the distributor might have been installed a tooth off when it was built?
I will look into the TPS. Thanks for the suggestion.
Steve
11-18-2012, 02:14 PM
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This is probably pretty uncommon, but there are reports of the harmonic balancer twisting (it's a rubber-filled torus, so the rubber tears). You could pull the #1 plug, bring the crank close to TDC, drop a chop stick down the plug hole and bring the crank up to TDC. The chop stick should rise up to TDC.
If that happened, your timing WAS correct (10 BTDC) when your mark was up around 20. You'll need to fix that; you don't want it coming apart.
If that happened, your timing WAS correct (10 BTDC) when your mark was up around 20. You'll need to fix that; you don't want it coming apart.
11-18-2012, 02:42 PM
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^that. And the fact that all those electrical bits, after 200,000 miles, need replacing. Plug wires, O2, cat maybe, TPS at least checked and adjusted if needed, that stuff wears out, even if it isn't "broke". Don't be cheap. If you love your "old friend" why would you let it live in poor health? 
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11-19-2012, 05:33 AM
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Replacing the O2 sensor should net you at LEAST 2-3 mpg & clean up that rich running, at a minimum.
Plug wires, distributor cap & rotor will give you a stronger spark, so more complete burn, again relating to the rich exhaust smell.
Plug wires, distributor cap & rotor will give you a stronger spark, so more complete burn, again relating to the rich exhaust smell.
11-19-2012, 10:49 PM
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How long have you owned the truck? Did the previous owner have the engine rebuilt? It is possible.....because it happened to me......the previous engine rebuilder messed up the cam timing on my engine! He did NOT SET The Cams Properly at the Engine Rebuild! If this is the case.....your engine will Never run correctly no matter what you do until you set the cams Properly!
Make Sure the Cams are Set Properly!!!!!!
The next thing to check is the O2 Sensor and Cat Converter. I use a Magnaflow high flow Cat.......and a Bosch 02 Sensor! They both work awesome! And I always smog like a brand new truck!.....which it actually is now with my new 3,000 mile brand new free under warranty engine.
Best of Luck!
Make Sure the Cams are Set Properly!!!!!!
The next thing to check is the O2 Sensor and Cat Converter. I use a Magnaflow high flow Cat.......and a Bosch 02 Sensor! They both work awesome! And I always smog like a brand new truck!.....which it actually is now with my new 3,000 mile brand new free under warranty engine.
Best of Luck!
11-20-2012, 05:27 AM
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I bought this truck new. I did have the head gaskets done by Toyota, the recall they had. That is the only time anything could have been 'mis-installed' unless it was built this way. I have 4 days off for Thanksgiving so will play around with it some more. Thanks guys!
Steve
Steve
11-20-2012, 08:02 AM
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+1 on the harmonic balancer. I had to replace mine recently because it was spinning on the center hub and I had to set the ignition timing by ear.
Last edited by BMcEL; 11-20-2012 at 08:04 AM.
11-20-2012, 08:24 AM
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I ran into this issue down to the letter on my 1992 3.0. I couldn't get it to run properly without being way advanced. I didn't see anyone ask if you have used the jumper wire while you set the timing. I assume you are so you do have the same issue.
My issue became a distributor pickup not working properly. I replaced the distributor and all my timing issues went away. I straight piped the cats for a couple minutes (unhooked and put in straight pipe for temp test) and nothing changed. If you think about the pickup being the issue it makes sense. Older cars didn't have much for a good timing advance and that is what your smelling (in my opinion). Do you know anyone with a good distributor that you can try? Picknpull units are pretty cheap.
My issue became a distributor pickup not working properly. I replaced the distributor and all my timing issues went away. I straight piped the cats for a couple minutes (unhooked and put in straight pipe for temp test) and nothing changed. If you think about the pickup being the issue it makes sense. Older cars didn't have much for a good timing advance and that is what your smelling (in my opinion). Do you know anyone with a good distributor that you can try? Picknpull units are pretty cheap.
11-20-2012, 11:22 PM
#13
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The O2 Sensor also Controls the Fuel/Air Mixture at the ECU. I would check the O2 Sensor and make sure that it is working correctly. If your truck is starting to burn oil.....this can also foul your O2 Sensor and Cat. The best prices I have found for parts are on RockAuto.com. I have been through this many times!
.......Carry On!......
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.......Carry On!......
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11-20-2012, 11:30 PM
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More items that can begin to fail over time are the ..... Igniter.
And the Coil.
I have already replaced my coil with a.....PERTRONIX 40,000-VOLT HIGH-PERFORMANCE COIL. Just in Case!
.......
And the Coil.
I have already replaced my coil with a.....PERTRONIX 40,000-VOLT HIGH-PERFORMANCE COIL. Just in Case!
.......
11-21-2012, 03:25 AM
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This is probably pretty uncommon, but there are reports of the harmonic balancer twisting (it's a rubber-filled torus, so the rubber tears). You could pull the #1 plug, bring the crank close to TDC, drop a chop stick down the plug hole and bring the crank up to TDC. The chop stick should rise up to TDC.
If that happened, your timing WAS correct (10 BTDC) when your mark was up around 20. You'll need to fix that; you don't want it coming apart.
If that happened, your timing WAS correct (10 BTDC) when your mark was up around 20. You'll need to fix that; you don't want it coming apart.
11-21-2012, 07:16 AM
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Good catch: I don't know the answer to that.
I did assume that "all" harmonic balancers had some sort of compliant (rubber) component to damp vibration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer
This photo of my Harmonic balancer (3VZE) does look like it has the rubber annulus (ring).
I did assume that "all" harmonic balancers had some sort of compliant (rubber) component to damp vibration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer
This photo of my Harmonic balancer (3VZE) does look like it has the rubber annulus (ring).
11-21-2012, 07:49 PM
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Hopefully it isn't the balancer. I was just in there not long ago. I can wait awhile before going back in.
The distributor is the next thing I'm doing. Regarding the jumper for the timing check...the idle makes no change when I pull the jumper or install while running. Makes me wonder if my advance works. Is that normal?
Yeah, my truck burns some oil these days. I need to replace the O2 sensor I know.
If my plugs look good, a nice tan...can I assume my O2 sensor is ok?
Happy T day
The distributor is the next thing I'm doing. Regarding the jumper for the timing check...the idle makes no change when I pull the jumper or install while running. Makes me wonder if my advance works. Is that normal?
Yeah, my truck burns some oil these days. I need to replace the O2 sensor I know.
If my plugs look good, a nice tan...can I assume my O2 sensor is ok?
Happy T day
11-22-2012, 01:15 AM
#20
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If you don't see a drop in idle with terminals jumpered, then that would point towards your TPS being out of spec. Try adjusting, takes a little time and a multimeter. Your ECU isn't seeing that the throttle is closed.
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