Grabbit89

First off I want to thank everyone on this site, there has been a ton of helpful info that's gotten me to this point. I'm a first time yota owner. I got a 94 SR5 4x4 from my brother in-law as a non-runner. He had cold start and rough running issues with it before tearing into it to troubleshoot before finally giving up. I've replaced a ton of parts so far such as knock sensor, timing belt/accessories, cap/rotor/plugs/wires, rebuilt injectors and more I'm probably leaving out. Anyways....... I've got almost everything back together but it won't start. I've checked and got spark on all six cylinders. Timing is dead on. Pretty sure I got fuel, CSI gives a nice spray for a half second on initial crank. All of this and I get zero fire. The only thing I haven't done is filled the radiator with fluid. I wanted to make sure it fires before installing the hoses/belts and so forth. Would this cause an issue starting? I was reading the CTS may not be giving a valid reading so this may cause a starting issue. Can anyone confirm? I marked the timing and even tried playing around with this while cranking but get the same result. The only thing I can think of is to pull the intake manifold again and check continuity at the injectors, maybe even an official pressure reading. Any other ideas?

Grabbit89

Also:
-Intake boot and all vacuum lines are accounted for and tight (replaced the vacuum lines. 10ft of hose wasn't enough!)
-Replaced fuel filter
-Replaced fuel injector pigtails
-Intake manifold cleaned, tons of carbon build up from EGR removed

Grabbit89

Bump. Planning on changing the Fuel Damper (leaking) and testing the Fuel injector wiring with a noid this weekend.

Charchee

You should be able to get to the fuel injector wires on the forward injector on the driver's side. You will probably have power going to them but what you are looking for is a ground signal from the ECM to trigger the injector. I doubt the CTS would give you this trouble as it should run in open loop mode without input from the sensor when you first start it up. Pull a spark plug and look at it. Is it wet or does it look like it has any evidence of combustion in the cylinder at all? Double check your EFI fuse. I wouldn't think your CSI would spray without power to the ECM but I could be wrong. I had an ECM go bad on me one time and I was getting CSI spray but no signal to the other injectors. If you have access to an ECM that you know to be good, you could plug it in and see what happens.

ZUK

iTrader: (1)

What do you see when you use a timing light and point it at the timing marks while turning the engine over?

Grabbit89

I've got spark. I tested each plug lead. I have no evidence of combustion plus they are new plugs. I haven't tried the timing light on it yet.

I got a pressure tester I'm going to throw on there tomorrow to check fuel press is good. Haven't done the continuity check yet on the injectors But plan to since I have the upper plenum off. When I did have everything back together the CSI was pointed into a water bottle it only sprayed for a second on initial crank. If you kept cranking it would stop. Is this normal? Would I expect to see any useful codes using the jumper wire if it hasn't started?

I have to say I'm feeling deflated. I've taken this 3VZE on a lot of nice dates but I'm getting the cold shoulder from her. First base is no where in sight.....

Grabbit89

So I tested fuel pressure today. Got a solid 45 psi. I tried testing the fuel injector wiring with a noid light but got nothing with the distributor and throttle position sensor unplugged. Got code 12 and 41 so I plugged the distributor in and the TPS and then got the noid light to light up on cyls 1, 3 and 5. I then proceeded to drop the noid light down the intake runner on cyl 3. I had to pull the passenger side rail to get to it but I got it out but lost daylight and called it a day. Hoping to put the passenger fuel rail back in and test cyls 2, 4, 6. If all goes well I'll put the the upper intake runner back on and try to start it. Still puzzled why this didn't start in the first place. The only anomaly I found today was an ohm resistance difference in the injectors. I tested all of them and got around 16.5 ohms. Manual says about 14 is standard. Would this cause any problems?

Grabbit89

So I tested everything today. Got the noid light to light up on all 6 injector plugs. Put everything back together but it just cranks and cranks and cranks but not a hint of firing. Even played around with the timing. No codes.

The only two things I can think of is that the injectors might not be firing (almost as if they are bad) or the spark isn't strong enough. I'm going to try a different battery tomorrow. I'm at my wits end with this thing..... about ready to call the wrecker to haul this POS out of here.

Grabbit89

So I got a brand new battery today. Popped it in and I get the same. No hint of firing. I also got some starting fluid while I was at the parts store. I sprayed a good 2 second burst at the throttle body and hit it again. Nothing...

Now I'm leaning towards a spark issue. I tested before and got spark while cranking on a spare plug grounded at the throttle cable bracket. Is it possible to have weak spark that's visible but not enough to ignite. Also any recommendations on where to set the timing while cranking.

854x4

Yep, sounds like you have a spark issue. Try using a test light grounded (not to the battery) and crank the engine with a spark plug wire removed and the test light about 1/2 inch away. It should be able to jump this gap. If it doesn't then check the coil lead into the distributor the same way. If its weak at the coil lead then its a bad coil (or coil wire), if its strong at the coil lead then its a cap or rotor problem. Remember the spark has to jump the air gap in the distributor and then the plug gap so it has to be strong.

Grabbit89

Thanks! I'll give this a shot today.

Grabbit89

Argggggh. So I tested spark today. Got the spark to jump a 1/2 inch gap a few times on the stock coil. I did the resistance measurements per the FSM and found the values out of spec so I replaced the coil. Same scenario, crank but no start. I thought the plugs might be fouled so I pulled them and they were pretty wet. I replaced them with some used Bosch 3 prong plugs that came withe the truck and still no start. New coil seems to jump spark at 1/2 gap no problem but I also noticed the spark was jumping around a few other places when testing. Not sure if this is the the plug wires or not (they are new so I hope not). I can't emphasize how frustrating this is, I know I have fuel, I can smell it from the intake and exhaust. the spark seem adequate yet I get absolutely no hint of any cylinder firing......

Grabbit89

I'm wondering if I fouled the other set of plugs. Is this possible if the engine was still flooded? The set I took out were wet but other wise relatively clean. Will wet plugs still fire?

Going to to order a timing light and test this week. Debating on ordering a different set of plug wires.

854x4

Did you test for spark at the plug wires or just the coil?

Grabbit89

just at the coil. I previously tested the spark at the plugs and got spark although it looked week. This was before replacing the coil though. I'll have check again at the plug. Also going to try the ignitor check but need to get a new test light. Mine crapped out today..

MudMachine88

Hey Guys,

I know this is a fairly old post, but i am having th same trouble with my 4runner,
a quick run down of my truck,
It is a 1992, Toyota 4runner, with a 3VZ-E engine in it, about 205,000Kms on the engine, its original, to the car,

I bought it of a dealer, about 7 months ago, and was running mint,
i noticed that the valve cover gaskets where pissing out oil, so i popped off the intake manifold and changed the gaskets to the valve covers, put a new intake manifold gasket on it as well,
after i did all that and put it back together, i noticed that id drive to and from work, park for 5 mins, and then go to start the engine, and it would idle between 400-500rpms almost at the point of stalling.

Last weekend i decided to pull it all off again and check to see that all the vacuum lines were connected properly, bolted it back together and it stopped doing the idle surging,
so i also advanced my timing from 10 to 12, and it runs great now, with advancing the timing i get no pinging. which is great.
BUT.........

see attached photos


I took out the Cold Start Injector, and as you can see from the top photo, it was caked in carbon build it, so i polished it up and cleaned (2nd photo), i feel like i did a great job of doing that.
and replaced it and seems to run a bit better.
( living in Melbourne, Australia, its coming into summer now and is not really cold in the mornings) but still, was god to clean it up.

so ive also done that,

Next, tonight, i want to remove the EGR from the intake manifold and clean it up as well.

But my major problem is that no matter when i try to start my car, i turn the key and all it does is click, click, click, click, click, click, click,........................................ and then it tries to start, and i can here a metal noise from the starter motor, and turn the key again and it starts.

I am trying to figure out what my problem is, and why the key wont turn over the engine with the first or second go??
it really has me stumped?????
i turn the key to the start position and it just clicks and doesnt even crank,
i hear relays clicking, i have fuel coming from the cold start injector,

any help would be greatly appreciated,

thank you
James

J-Dog

If its going click...click...click....click...then occasionally will crank over either your battery needs a proper charge or replacing or your solenoid/starter motor is on its way out. Check all your wiring and connections on the battery, started, earth ect.

MudMachine88

I am going to look at all that tonight, i did read somewhere online about maybe a faulty earth loom to the battery possibly,
it may also be the starter motor, i have done the bash test on the starter motor and it had no effect,
where is the starter soleniod located?

thanks for the help!

J-Dog

Solenoid is actually on the starter motor, the large round cylinder shaped part.

Grabbit89

Still nothing.....

So today I tested the distributor, ignitor and spark at each plug. On the ignition side the plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil and battery are all new. Engine cranks but never fires. I previously tested the fuel pressure at the rail which as good (45 psi). I got a noid light to light up with each injector. The only thing I can think of at this point are two things:

The injectors aren't firing:
So I'll pull the upper intake manifold and check that each injector is actually pulsing and spraying fuel. I was thinking of jumping the fuel pump at the diagnostic port and then jumping each injector while checking down the runner with a cheap usb bore scope/camera I have.

The timing is off:
Ive set it at both ends and in the middle all with the same result. Ive never set timing before but just got a timing light. Any idea where it should be during cranking?