jasonbrink

I'm in the middle of changing my water pump, timing belt (and idlers,) and cam and crank seals on my 3.0 92 4runner.

I see in the FSM it says to use screwdrivers and a rag (to keep from damaging crank gear) to get the crank gear off, but it doesn't seem to be quite as simple as that for me.

Are there any tips, tricks, or voodoo you know of that can make this seemingly simple (but not) task any easier?

Also, any tips on replacing the cam and crank seals?

Thanks!

Jason

TNRabbit

I used a pulley puller I bought at Sears. Only way I could get it off. I greased the hell out of it so it'll come off easier next time....

bugs1961

Jason,

I have changed literally dozens of cam and crank seals by poking a hole in the steel part of the seal near the outside edge with a sharp pointed scratch-awl. Then I thread in a 2" or so long, thin wood screw about 1/8th inch or so. (Don't go too far or you'll contact the bearing cap behind the seal.) Then grab the screw with a pliers and the seal will pull right out. Use caution the the screw doesn't contact the crank, cam, or outside seal surface. I found that trying to pry the seal out with a screwdriver or other tool runs a great risk of scratching the sealing surface and causing a future leak.

Bugs

jasonbrink

What type of puller was this? Do you have a link or picture?

Bugs-
What puller/technique do you use to get the crank gear off? And what have you found works well as a tool for the the insertion of the cam/crank seals? Do these need RTV ? There appears to be some on the edge of the cam seals, where the side of the seal meets the sealing surface.

If it's not supposed to have any RTV, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the dealership where it had its' head gasket "V06 Campaign" done used some anyway. They have a very bad service department. The most half-assed mechanics (in my experiences there) I've ever seen, at twice the labor rate of any local shop.


Also-
When using the impact to take the left cam gear off, the cam turned about 45 degrees counter-clockwise. I tried to just turn the gear so the marks lined up, but it was very hard to turn, and then just ended up 45 degrees clockwise from the match marks. I did not remove the spark plugs, is this all i need to do to remedy this problem?

Sorry for the possibly newbish questions, but i am absolutely a newbie at this particular set of repairs. I have the FSM, I've read every article and posting found on Google and yotatech about the repair, which made for HOURS of reading. However, I don't recall ever seeing these questions/repairs answered/explained in any detail.

Thanks again for all the help!

Jason

bugs1961

Jason,

The crank gear is slip-on and isn't pressed in place. I have always been able to just pull it off with my hands with some side to side jiggling. The FSM has you put two screwdrivers behind the gear on opposite sides, and using a twisting motion, start the gear moving. If it's rusted in place you can use a harmonic balancer/ steering wheel puller to remove it. I've attached a photo of one. The crank gear should have 2 holes drilled and tapped to use with the two opposing slots in the puller.

The cam turning isn't a problem and if you take the spark plugs out it turns back much easier. You should be able to turn it by hand with the plugs out or you can put the bolt back in finger tight and use a wrench. A sharp pop on the wrench should loosen the bolt back up without moving the cam too much. You will set it to the mark just before putting the new belt on so it doesn't matter if it's off until that point. The bolt will be installed and torqued by then so you can use a wrench to set it exactly. I use a holding tool I made when removing or installing the cam or crank bolts that you can see in the photos. I highly recommend it.

If you get the seals from Toyota they will have a rubber coating all around the outside edge and seal great without any RTV. I've never seen one leak unless the head gets damaged where the seal goes. I put multipurpose grease around the outside edge and inside the housing where the seal goes and use my fingers to push it in as far as I can. The I use the end of an extension to gently tap the seal into place by going around the edge a little at a time. If it takes more than light taps to keep moving it, the seal is probably cocked and needs to get straightened before it bends. Go a little at a time watching for a high point so you can keep it straight all the way to flush.

Take care and good luck,
Bugs

jasonbrink

Thanks again Bugs! You have been a big help in this project!

Jason

bugs1961

No problem, glad it's all working out.

Bugs

jasonbrink

Bugs,
My crank gear has no drilled holes in it, it's a solid, flat face pushed on the shaft with notch for a key to hold it. I've tried the screwdriver method and tapped on it with a plastic headed dead-blow hammer to no avail. There is no rust visible, the pulley that came off of there before this was a piece of cake. It had a nice shiny shaft, no rust.

I'm stumped. I wanted to replace that crank seal, because I know if I don't it will be leaking within a week of putting it back together. That's how my luck is...

Thanks,
Jason

RMA

The crank gear should just slide out like the pulley did, maybe the woodruff is damaged..

jasonbrink

The key looks fine, unfortunately. I cannot figure this out, the damn gear is just not budging. There is zero rust on the shaft. I tried the FSM suggestion of using two screwdrivers to "wiggle" it off, and nothing.

Any other suggestions? I can't believe that this tiny step is holding the whole repair up!

Thanks,
Jason

sb5walker

I had this exact problem when I changed the head gaskets on my veezy. No holes drilled for a puller, I didn't want to destroy the soft aluminum oil pump by prying against it, and using Liquid Wrench and tapping didn't loosen it. It wouldn't budge. Since I only intended to replace the seal as a preventative measure (it wasn't leaking), I just left the gear and seal in place.

Now 70k miles later, I'm about to replace the timing belt, and the front seal is seeping some (not much). I plan to get the rascal off even if I have to drill and tap holes for a puller myself. I plan to try PB Blaster first - didn't know about it last time around - and maybe try a little heat on the gear, but if that doesn't get it, the drill and tap are coming out. I may replace the gear with a new one, not sure yet.

One thing I've read about it over the past couple years is that the gear will only slide off if it is pulled exactly evenly straight off: if you try prying one side or the other, it gets tight and won't budge. So maybe focus on getting the pulling force as even and straight off as you can.

Anyway, good luck. I look forward to hearing how you solve this issue, as I'm soon going to need to know.

jasonbrink

That makes sense. But getting the pulling force straight and even is just about impossible with the room I have to work in there and the angle of pull.

My seal is not leaking at all, but I know when i get this back together and drive it another 10k it will probably start leaking, that's how my luck goes... I'm about to say screw it, and leave the thing on there and just get this damn job done. I'll deal with it at the next belt change unless this thing comes off on my first try tomorrow.

Thanks,
Jason

bugs1961

Hi Jason,

I just got back on line and answered your PM. Just read through the problems you're having with the pulley. Try tapping it towards the engine and see if it will free up. You could put the crank pulley back on and use that to tap on the crank gear. It may be cocked a little and be jammed and tapping it back may straighten it out. I have never seen one that didn't come off by hand. Good luck,
Bugs

flashkl

Mine was all rusted and seized on there too. I tried prying and ended up mangling the crap out of my pulley, so I drilled and tapped two holes in it, used a harmonic balancer puller to pull it off, and just bought a used one from a fellow YT member who was parting out his veezy. It cost me like 20 bucks and saved me a boatload of headaches. If you can find one to replace it with, I say just drill and pull.

flashkl

Oh, and lots and lots of grease when reassembling is a good idea.

Th3duke

jasonbrink: I had the same problem, I tried soaking it with WD40 and it wouldn't budge... I friend of mine came over with a can of Moove iT and it worked like a charm (waited 5 mins after spraying the stuff) 9 and 3 o'clock with screw drivers finally got it off... keep trying, you'll get it.

jasonbrink

I hope so, I REALLY want to change this crank seal. The cam seals were fine and not leaking, but when I removed them I could tell they wouldn't make it to the next belt change at 160k miles. The crank seal must be in similar condition after 100k miles.

I have the gear soaking in PB Blaster, and it will be soaking all night. I hope tomorrow brings me a pleasant surprise....

I find mention of "moove it" online, but cannot find a source. I've never heard of that one.

Thanks again everyone! I have my fingers crossed this will work.

Jason

scope103

Jason -

Like some of the others, I didn't have much trouble pulling mine off with just my hands (no screwdrivers, even). So my experience won't help.

But if the woodruff key (shaped like a half-moon, I guess) is cocked a little it might jam. You might try to VERY GENTLY tap directly on the woodruff key to see if it will rock every so slightly and release the balancer.

Good luck, and let us know what happens.

sb5walker

I forget exactly what's in the way, and I'm too lazy to get up and go out and look, but if it's the bumper, I've heard it's not too difficult to take that off. You must have the radiator out of there, but maybe the A/C condenser? I could see where that would be a problem. The p/s lines run near there too, and perhaps some sheet metal? I guess I'll find out when I go to drill my crank gear, if it comes to that.

jasonbrink

It's more the angle of leaning over the front end and grasping the gear that's the problem. Especially when it's stuck on there. Prying is difficult as well, due to the soft aluminum casting of the oil pump. It has the gear sort of "blocked" due to the protruding casting that holds the lowest timing cover tight to it. This is a pain in the a$$. I should have known it would be. All the "simple" repairs always end up having some ridiculously long step (usually an extra day) that should really only take 5 minutes. Usually it is due to living in the rust belt, but unfortunately (or fortunately) this one doesn't involve any rust, it's just stuck....

Jason