3rd member question
04-18-2011, 04:28 PM
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3rd member question
I've got a 92 pickup with a 22re. My pinion seal and bearing went out a good 9 months ago and all I've done is add fluid to it before I go out wheeling. It's been full of water numerous times, sat for awhile with water in it etc, the last time I took it out it was howling pretty bad.... basically ran hard and put away wet, there is no point to replacing the seal/bearing.
A buddy of mine has a 3rd out of an 83 pickup he said he'd sell me for a decent price. Now my question is will the 83 3rd fit in my 92 housing? Will my axle shafts work with this 3rd? Will I have any issues using the 83 3rd?
I know the v6 3rds are a little different, but I'm not too sure about the older 4cyl 3rds.
A buddy of mine has a 3rd out of an 83 pickup he said he'd sell me for a decent price. Now my question is will the 83 3rd fit in my 92 housing? Will my axle shafts work with this 3rd? Will I have any issues using the 83 3rd?
I know the v6 3rds are a little different, but I'm not too sure about the older 4cyl 3rds.
Last edited by mattaway; 04-18-2011 at 04:29 PM.
04-18-2011, 04:53 PM
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http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/
Search button is your friend, this is covered to exhaustion, but is a little confusing at first.
Search button is your friend, this is covered to exhaustion, but is a little confusing at first.
Last edited by ra33it; 04-18-2011 at 04:55 PM.
04-18-2011, 05:49 PM
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Another link that may be of interest: http://www.brian894x4.com/Gearratiosanddiffs.html
04-18-2011, 07:16 PM
#6
There are actually two types of R&P, let's call them "LPH" (Long Pinion Head) and "SPH" (Short Pinion Head).
- '79-'85 rigs have SPH gears and a "thick" inner pinion bearing designed for the 4cyl housing. All aftermarket "4cyl" R&P and inner pinion bearings are identical to these factory parts, that way the same part numbers will fit all '79-'95 four-cylinder rigs.
- '86-'95 four-cylinder and V6 rigs ALL come with LPH gears. However, to use LPH gears in a four-cylinder housing you MUST use the "thin" '86-'95 factory Toyota four-cylinder inner pinion bearing. If you use a "thick" aftermarket bearing (or a factory '79-'85 bearing) the pinion will be too deep into the mesh and won't work.
- SPH gears will fit V6 housings if you add a lot of inner pinion bearing shims. Precision Gear avoids having to use so many shims by offering an aftermarket LPH gearset for V6 housings.
- '88-'95 V6 housings must obviously use V6 inner pinion bearings, so there's no confusion here.
- Carrier bearings aren't an issue here either, just R&P. You need 4cyl carrier bearings for 4cyl housings and V6 carrier bearings for V6 housings regardless of year.
So what good does this do anyone? Say you have some used LPH gears collecting dust because you didn't think you could use them in your 4cyl housing. They're even the ratio you want, like the V6-only factory 4.56 or a set of Precision LPH gears (any ratio) your buddy traded you for a six-pack. Take your bad self over to Toyota and order a '86-'95 4cyl inner pinion bearing, and you're in business!
- '79-'85 rigs have SPH gears and a "thick" inner pinion bearing designed for the 4cyl housing. All aftermarket "4cyl" R&P and inner pinion bearings are identical to these factory parts, that way the same part numbers will fit all '79-'95 four-cylinder rigs.
- '86-'95 four-cylinder and V6 rigs ALL come with LPH gears. However, to use LPH gears in a four-cylinder housing you MUST use the "thin" '86-'95 factory Toyota four-cylinder inner pinion bearing. If you use a "thick" aftermarket bearing (or a factory '79-'85 bearing) the pinion will be too deep into the mesh and won't work.
- SPH gears will fit V6 housings if you add a lot of inner pinion bearing shims. Precision Gear avoids having to use so many shims by offering an aftermarket LPH gearset for V6 housings.
- '88-'95 V6 housings must obviously use V6 inner pinion bearings, so there's no confusion here.
- Carrier bearings aren't an issue here either, just R&P. You need 4cyl carrier bearings for 4cyl housings and V6 carrier bearings for V6 housings regardless of year.
So what good does this do anyone? Say you have some used LPH gears collecting dust because you didn't think you could use them in your 4cyl housing. They're even the ratio you want, like the V6-only factory 4.56 or a set of Precision LPH gears (any ratio) your buddy traded you for a six-pack. Take your bad self over to Toyota and order a '86-'95 4cyl inner pinion bearing, and you're in business!
Short answer though:
If the 92's gears are 4.10s, then yes, the 83 will be a direct bolt-in swap for all 79-95 4cyl or V6(though it would be slightly weaker than the 4-pinion Turbo/V6 diff)rear axles with 4.10s. All 83 4x4s had 4.10s. Part of that bolt-in procedure may require removing/retightening the pinion nut too(as in swapping flanges if the driveshaft bolt holes don't match).
Last edited by MudHippy; 04-18-2011 at 07:34 PM.
04-19-2011, 06:52 AM
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I was told the 83 3rd has a 4.30 gear (never heard of that) and my 92 has 4.10s... I know the gear differences aren't all too great for my t-case, but it's just a mud truck now, and I only use 4wd in soft mud so it should be alright temporarily. I've got a solid axle front with matching rear I'm going to build up before I do the swap. So this 83 3rd is just to get me by til then.
The LPH and SPH thing kinda threw me off a little
But from the short answer MudHippy gave it, it looks like I'm good.
The LPH and SPH thing kinda threw me off a little
But from the short answer MudHippy gave it, it looks like I'm good.
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04-19-2011, 07:17 PM
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I picked up the 3rd earlier tonighta and he said it was from an 85, he has 83 axles in his buggy, that's why he was thinking 83. So I guess it's possible it came from an 85 with an auto? When did they start using autos?
Tomorrow I'll know if it'll work or not, I'm going to hopefully get it put in and take it for a test drive
Tomorrow I'll know if it'll work or not, I'm going to hopefully get it put in and take it for a test drive
04-19-2011, 07:23 PM
#11
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if it came from an 85 with an auto then they are 4.30 gears, yours is a 4cyl manual with 4.10 gears. It wont work. It will bolt in, and work, but once you put that thing in 4wd something isn't gonna like it. And that goes for mud too.
http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/t...ion-18588.html
http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/t...ion-18588.html
Last edited by xxxtreme22r; 04-19-2011 at 07:25 PM.
04-20-2011, 03:08 AM
#13
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if it came from an 85 with an auto then they are 4.30 gears, yours is a 4cyl manual with 4.10 gears. It wont work. It will bolt in, and work, but once you put that thing in 4wd something isn't gonna like it. And that goes for mud too.
http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/t...ion-18588.html
http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/t...ion-18588.html
In low traction situations like sand, mud, and ice/snow, mismatched gears are a nuisance but won't destroy your transfer case or transmission. I found out in all 3.
Put in the diff temporarily, or go find a 4.10 and save yourself the hassle the second time around. Otherwise, the diff will work and your truck will NOT burst into flames
04-20-2011, 04:51 AM
#14
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not the chance I would want to take peow130. But you might be right its only a 4.10 to 4.30, but even still not worth the time to do it or the chance to take. What's the odds of him finding a 4.30 to match the front?
04-20-2011, 08:55 PM
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Well, I put the new 3rd in this afternoon and took her for a spin, she's got a little more pep on the street and in the sand in the field next to my house. I haven't put it in 4wd yet, but probly will this weekend.
All I had to do to get the new 3rd to work was swap the flanges, the bolt holes on the new 3rd's flange was smaller than the bolts for my drive shaft.
I replaced the inner/outter seals/bearings a couple months ago, and they're all fine. So no worries there.
And for the guys saying my t-case/tranny will blow up as soon as I put it in 4wd... all I have to say is whatever, I drove this truck with a blown out pinion seal and bearing for well over 10 months, everyday on the street and 3-4 times a week in water/mud/sand etc before it began to howl, I worked at a dealership and would collect old/half full bottles of gear oil everyday because I had to add 1/2 quart every other day... one time I skipped a few days and dropped the plug and about 1/4 quart of water drained out and that was it... and today when I took the old 3rd out, it surpsingly looks perfectly fine. There is no abnormal wear on any of the gears, no rust built up, no whatever else anyone might say/think...
I also completely blew #4 piston out the block and drove home, with a fist sized hole on both sides of the block and no oil in the motor...
Pic to prove it!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...type=1&theater
All I had to do to get the new 3rd to work was swap the flanges, the bolt holes on the new 3rd's flange was smaller than the bolts for my drive shaft.
I replaced the inner/outter seals/bearings a couple months ago, and they're all fine. So no worries there.
And for the guys saying my t-case/tranny will blow up as soon as I put it in 4wd... all I have to say is whatever, I drove this truck with a blown out pinion seal and bearing for well over 10 months, everyday on the street and 3-4 times a week in water/mud/sand etc before it began to howl, I worked at a dealership and would collect old/half full bottles of gear oil everyday because I had to add 1/2 quart every other day... one time I skipped a few days and dropped the plug and about 1/4 quart of water drained out and that was it... and today when I took the old 3rd out, it surpsingly looks perfectly fine. There is no abnormal wear on any of the gears, no rust built up, no whatever else anyone might say/think...
I also completely blew #4 piston out the block and drove home, with a fist sized hole on both sides of the block and no oil in the motor...
Pic to prove it!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...type=1&theater
Last edited by mattaway; 04-20-2011 at 08:59 PM.
04-21-2011, 03:09 AM
#16
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They're out there, just most people don't know that they're 4.10, due to the closeness of the ratios.
Anyways, I say run it if he doesn't have the money to find a 4.10 or rebuild his. Unless his is actually 4.10. All he needs to do is count the R/P and divide lol.
Besides, summer is coming up, and 4.30s is a good combo for mileage.
04-21-2011, 10:56 AM
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It feels like there's a little more pep to it now, but it's hard to tell with the gears being so close, it's not like i'm running a 4.56 or 4.88 now where you'd obviously be able to feel the difference.
I won't notice fuel mileage, it's not a daily now, I took the tag off it about 4 months ago. She's just a toy now
I won't notice fuel mileage, it's not a daily now, I took the tag off it about 4 months ago. She's just a toy now
04-21-2011, 06:21 PM
#18
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probably 4.30's then.
i know when i had 4.30's it was much more peppy. i could take off in 2nd easy, lol.
if it's just a toy, run it then.
you won't bust the transfer case in soft dirt. but asphalt and high traction will make it bind up
i know when i had 4.30's it was much more peppy. i could take off in 2nd easy, lol.
if it's just a toy, run it then.
you won't bust the transfer case in soft dirt. but asphalt and high traction will make it bind up
Last edited by Tofer; 04-21-2011 at 08:15 PM.
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