Camus

I'm in a bind; I'm out of town and away from most of my tools and my 22re has decided to give me problems.

Truck has been running rough, but running. No smoke out of tailpipe, but rough idle, etc. Pulling the coil off the plug on #3 makes no difference, so bingo. #3 was where the coolant leak was occurring back when I replaced the headgasket almost a year ago. I've driven maybe 10000 miles since then with no problems.

Plug was dry, but half of it blackened. Ignition seems to be working fine. Is there an easy way to check injectors w/o a sound scope? Check valves?

Thanks in advance for any advice. I'd hate to be forced into the arms of the stealership just because I'm away from home.

Erik Beeman

Check compression on #3.

If you can get your hands on a 12mm socket and wrench, a flat head screwdriver, and feeler gauges, you can do a valve adjustment wherever you are.

You may have blown another head gasket. Take a flashlight and look down #3 and see if its all clean in there. Are you losing coolant at all?


Where about are you? Any chance you're in Nor Cal? I've got tools and time to help you out?

Camus

I'm going to buy a compression tester now and check it out.

Injector seems ok. Resistance is about right and the input cable makes the noid light flash correctly. Beyond that though, I'm not 100% sure how to confirm its actually squirting w/o removing the fuel rail and going through that PITA.

Ignition seems fine as well. Spark plug fires when checked outside the cylinder.

If you got time to help man, let me know, I'll shoot you a pm. I'm in Sacramento at the moment.

Edit: forgot to mention, inside cylinder seems fine, totally dry. I've driven with it like this too much already and haven't lost any coolant.

Erik Beeman

How many miles are on the motor total? If you look into cylinder number three and it looks completely clean, you probably blew another head gasket at cylinder 3. The first time I blew a head gasket on my 88' was @ cylinder number 3, and the second time was 15,000 miles later at the same place!

Camus

Sorry it took me so long, I don't really have that many tools with me and have to scrounge or buy anything I need.

The compression (warm) on the good cylinders is around 180psi or so. On #3 it was about 135. After adding a little bit of motor oil and testing again, I got 150.

I don't seem to be getting any fluid mixing though, should I check the valves?

The engine probably hasn't had more than 20,000 miles since it was rebuilt shortly before I got it. The block, head and whatnot are all new or "rebuilt".

Erik Beeman

In a typical scenario, when a motor blows X psi during a test, and then blows more psi when oil is added, the rings are bad or are going bad. This means they are not sealing. 150 is low, but is on the bottom scale had the motor we were dealing with was 250k miles, but 135 is not a good number.

abecedarian

@Erik: True, but even 135-150 is arguably 'acceptable'. And that amount of compression should not cause a total misfire on a cylinder.

Valve adjustments should be checked. If they're okay, I suggest performing a leak-down test to isolate head gasket, burned valves/seats, etc.

Camus

When the headgasket blew last year, I was getting I think around 125 from #3 and adding oil didn't have any effect.

With all that said, it seemed like the engine was still running better then, even with steam out of the tailpipe. At this time, pulling the coil from the spark plug seems to have zero effect on the engine, as if the 3rd cylinder isn't functioning at all.

Erik Beeman

Camus, if you find out there is a problem with the head/valves/seals, let me know. I have a perfectly working head from a 92 22RE sitting here in my garage. You can have it if you need it. If you're still in Sacramento, I'll bring it to you and help you install it if you want.

I would check valves.

Camus

Just went through and checked the valve clearances and they seemed fine, but I re-did them all just to be sure. Compression remained the same.

I've been working on the street, so I'll have to call it a day.

When I did the last headgasket job, I had a valve job done at the shop that did the grind/level, so I'd think the seals and everything should still be good, but barring any movement on the ignition or fuel fronts, I think I'll have to strip down to the headgasket again.

I do remember the 3rd cylinder being comparable to the others after the first job was finished, so clearly something dropped the ball.

abecedarian

injectors and ignition won't affect compression check, if the check is done right.

Erik Beeman

If you would like help, let me know. I'm more than willing to drive out and give you a hand, I've got the tools for the job! I don't work for money, beer, or any type of payment, but the fact of a handshake and time spent learning and wrenching on another project. I also have 3 tubs full of spare 22RE parts, and chances are if you need it, I've probably got it. Let me know Andrew

bugs1961

Man, we need a few more guys like you around!

Camus

Well, now we're 95%+ sure it's not spark or fuel. Pulling the injector off of #3 while its still running makes a noticeable difference. So I'm running on 4 cylinders; one without enough compression.

Hopefully it's the headgasket, rather than the cylinder rings.

Erik's been nice enough to offer his help and tools, so we'll probably start tearing into it tomorrow.

yoterr

sorry to hear you gotta do it again, but at least you think you found it good luck

Erik Beeman

Abe, maybe we can get some input from ya if you're around..

I've been leaning towards a blown head gasket, or leaky rings. You've gotta have fuel, spark, and compression to make a boom. Camus pulled the plug on three and got zapped while doing so, so we have spark. He pulled the fuel injector plug on 3 and it started running different, which tells me he has fuel. He has compression, but is low. When he stated that it started running weird when he pulled the fuel injector plug tells me something decently important; the number three cylinder is infact firing, but not all the way up to par, and my best guess would be because of the low compression.


Now, I'm trying to think hard on this one. The motor has roughly 20,000 on it. He says that this problem just started recently, and has run good all throughout. This is what is driving me away from bad rings. I'm not saying its not possible, but I've never seen a set of rings just "go out" after 20K miles under normal driving. I think it's a head gasket, and this could also be causing low compression on cylinder 3, because it's causing a leak, even if it's small.

Input anybody?

Camus

Looks like we have a winner

Erik Beeman

Which means what? Is that water in the oil?

Mapquest says 1 hr 47min, I think I can cut that down a little

Camus

It seems like water to me.

I'll admit it isn't super obvious, but it doesn't look normal.

What do you guys think?

abecedarian

looks a bit like water. have a shot from the side?
but... no steam from the tailpipe though...?

you have to consider how could moisture get in to the oil- the oil supply passage to the head is at the front of the engine and the return to the crankcase is in the rear- no other oil passages from the block to the head, every other passage is coolant. condensation from the crankcase in the oil? oil cap is clean, no evidence of moisture on it? looked inside the valve cover?
I suppose the leak is small enough to not cause steam but when the engine sits after running, pressure could force coolant out of a gasket and in to the cylinder where it would seep around the rings and wash the cylinder walls and rings clean... and that could cause the rings to lose their seal. But again, where's the coolant coming from? Head gasket or intake manifold gasket or engine damage?

When the head gasket was done last, the block and head were checked for cracks, correct?