scope103

You changed the No. 2 idler without taking the tension (such as it was) off the timing belt? The only way I can imagine that would be possible is if the timing belt is TOO LOOSE. Just because you "can't" get to the tensioner doesn't mean you can ignore it and still (somehow) fix your engine.

I don't know if your loose timing belt is causing your noise, but it sure is never going to let the engine run right.

Budman1

Good point Scope103, tomorrow I'll look at removing the cover plate in front of the #1 tensioner and adjusting it, then reassess the noise!
Thanks

Budman1

Today I started the engine, pulled the spark plug wires to see if the noise would go away, it did not. I then removed the plenum and valve covers, the lower timing belt cover, tightened the #1 Tension pulley, removed the spark plugs and started checking the valve clearances. The closest feeler gauges I had were .008 & .010, the range is 7/9-11/13, IIRC, most were tighter than the 8, two were looser. I'll check them again Monday with a full set of feeler gauges. The spark plugs were black as pitch with soot on all, running way rich. Haven't found anything that screams I'm the problem except the two valves (#3 intake, #5 exhaust) both too much clearance. I've never done valves with spacers so this is my first, we shall see.
Thanks for all the input, it helps.

Charchee

You may be getting a little over my head at this point. I do agree with Scope that you shouldn't be able to turn anything with the timing belt in place though. Since you are already in there, consider servicing the timing belt system including changing the belt. I haven't pulled a 3.0 before but have pulled a 3.4 with the heads on. The transmission bolts are in the same place so I would think you could pull it with the heads on. I will say it is tricky to reach the top two bolts. I had to get creative with a long angle head ratchet and a wobble head adapter.

Budman1

I've got (1) 3vz rebuilt for the 95 4Runner, heads on, intake on, was ready to finish with parts from this 92 4Runner (remember it's supposed to be dead), but the 92 is not really dead....yet. I've got another 3vz in parts, good block, good heads, good crank I had turned 10/10, enough parts to build another.
Methinks I'll look at my extra heads for shims to do a better job adjusting the valves in the 92, button it up and crank it.
According to the PO, the 92 engine was rebuilt (at least top) winter of 2014/15, he bought it in June 2015, I have the covers down to the harmonic balancer(crank pulley), the belt looks ok, I changed the #2 Idler pulley, tightened the tensioner pulley. If what I do next (adj valves, new spark plugs) clears up the rattling, then I have a new direction, if wisdom says I needed to go back in, I will change the belt, water pump, t'stat, probably #1 & #2 pulleys, making that part right......
so much to think about......

Budman1

Monday....3 exhaust valves with .007 clearance, re-shimmed to about .010, without removing cams (a bugger-huh?), valve covers on...... Tuesday, lets roll....

Budman1

........Tuesday, buttoned up, runs, clatters still.....coming out tomorrow......

Charchee

I was reading back over this thread and didn't see where you ever did a compression test. When the question of whether to pull an engine for rebuild or not, a compression test is like, step one. The other thing I didn't see, forgive me if I just missed it, was a basic timing check using a timing light. Engine noise, described differently by everyone who hears it, can be caused my an overly advanced or retarded timing. Those are two things that you need to know before you can make an educated decision on whether or not to pull it.

Again, I may have missed your post on those steps but if you haven't done those tests, do them before you pull it. Bad compression + engine noise = pull it. Good compression + timing off = adjust your timing advance and drive it another 100K. Those tests aren't hard to do and you may save yourself a ton of work and money depending on what you find.

Budman1

We pulled the engine Monday, we found 3 seeping freeze plugs, that leads me to believe the bottom end was not rebuilt, so, The engine is out and most needed parts have been changed over, I'm now adjusting valves, swapping shims.......
Happy thanksgiving to all, I'll pick this back up next week,
Bud

Budman1

I'd like to run my thinking on valve adjusting and choosing the correct shim for my 3vze by you experienced yota-heads.......
If I've followed the book correctly ,.....TDC, rotate 120*,etc, the lobe is pointing ^up^, not up/out perpendicular to the head, I get my reading. For the #1 Exhaust valve my reading is .006, it should be min .009 max .013. For correction I aim for .010/.011, so I need to add .004/.005 to the shim thickness, rather find a shim .004/.005 thicker than what's under this lobe.
Is my understanding correct?

millball

You want the cam at the middle point of its base circle, with the lobe pointing 180' away from the shim when measuring; I guess that would be perpendicular to the face of the shim.

To make the clearance greater, the new shim needs to be THINNER, not thicker!!

scope103

0.009-.0.013?? Where do you think your truck was built? Detroit? (in the 1960s, at that)

The shims are sold in metric sizes (e.g., 2.75mm, in 0.05mm steps), so you might as well get used to doing the math in metric. (exhaust clearance 0.22 – 0.32 mm) You'll want to have something to measure in metric, and while a good micrometer is more accurate, an inexpensive Harbor Freight digital caliper is the way to go. You only need to measure +/- 0.05mm, and all cheap calipers switch between metric and SAE if you're getting confused.

I've found that the cam base circle is more than 180° of the cam, so you only need to get "close" to straight up; the clearance won't change as long as you're measuring from the shim to that base circle. But there's no harm in picking one direction and hitting it each time. And yeah, make sure you're going the right direction in your calculation!

Be sure to record the clearance, and the shim thickness, on each valve that is out of spec. If you're lucky, you can switch shims around and reduce the number you have to buy.

If you can get them for less than $20 a piece, let us know where. Last time I bought shims I got them from http://parts.lakelandtoyota.com/ at about $10 each, but the shipping runs that up compared to my otherwise excellent local dealer.

Me, I find it hard to stick my arm down past the fan to turn the crank, so I turn the crank from below. But then I can't see the cams! So I mark the harmonic balancer (I use a bright yellow paint pen, the one I used on the head bolts) every 120°, and just turn until the mark lines up.

Budman1

Thanks millball, great information especially "thinner not thicker", from my first observation, measurement is about the same perpendicular or straight up, but it's still better to form a habit of doing it right.......

scope103....fyi, I was in the army in 1960, so yea I've got some old ways......The first shim I measured was 2.53 mm with .1524 (.006) clearance, should be 2.28 (.010) clearance. I will recheck all measurements, but I don't think I have anything less than 2.53mm in the (12) extras I've got. Hmmmmm

serious thanks to you both, you are encouraging

Budman1

Scope103, I'm online looking at shims.....
check this out:
http://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/parts...html?PNC=13751

Budman1

my wife and I spent three weeks with the grandkids round Christmas, came home with colds, took three weeks to become social.....y'all didn't even know I was gone.
I've cleaned the engine bay, green stuff and oven cleaner, pressure washer.....
I checked the valve clearances on the stand, changed shims trying to hold clearances in the middle of acceptable, NOTE: I did have to purchase (3) shims, after looking on line, I called a local Toyota Dealer (Shout out to Toyota of Melbourne, their parts department is great, everyone I talked to treated me like 'the Donald'), manager Steve Bowman, great prices too,(is that ok Mods?)
Next up is valve covers, exhaust manifolds......I'm deliberately:::::use standard exhaust system or eliminate the crossover, tie right exhaust back in before the cat,...so here's a question, if you're buying this/a 4Runner, 3.0, would the removed crossover be a good thing, bad, or who cares?
I'm not in a hurry, just keep wrenching

Budman1

Just an update to where we started.........I'm trying to upload a video
should I continue on with my rebuild in this thread or start another?

Budman1

Still going forward....... we've got the rebuild in the 92, it starts, runs, not real smooth, but runs.....I put my hand over the mouth of the maf, it smooths out and idles fine, I can press the footfeed slowly and reach over 3000 rpm. Normal pedal pressure it will die.
we changed nothing that was on the exit engine but: new manifold cups for injectors.
What do ya'll think......are we a first?