NCRebel

My '90 4Runner started knocking the other day, so I took it home (was a couple miles out when it happened), and went through the motions. Compression was good, adjusted the rockers and didn't note anything crazy there, drained the oil and saw some metallic flakes and knew what I had to do. Fast forward to today:
I finished changing the oil pump seals (their leaking was what ultimately led to bearing wear IMO), cleaned up everything, installed the oil p/u and oil pan, tightened belts, etc. etc. Time came to test it out, and despite the butterflies and the urge to crank it up I thought it'd be better to turn over the crank w/ a breaker to get the oil pump primed a little, and just to do a final check. Connect the 19mm socket to the crank bolt, apply a little pressure, and nothing
Make sure she's still in neutral (it's a manual), get my wife to press the clutch just in case, give her a turn aaand......nothing.
Dropped the oil pan, kissed 5 new quarts of oil and a nice new FITP gasket goodbye, re-removed the oil p/u, belts, pulley, and oil pump just to rule out everything, gave her a turn with truck in neutral and wife pushing clutch--bingo! Just kidding, s*** still didn't turn over at all. Almost made some more body damage to the old thing, but my wife convinced me to eat my Bojangles biscuit and try again tomorrow.
I'm not a mechanic by nature, but I take a lot of pride in self reliance and this (with big help from the FSM and this forum, Haynes book sucks) has allowed me to keep the ole 4Runner trucking the 6 years/100,000 miles I've had it (up to 230,000 mi. now). I know the engine pretty well by this point, but I don't know why the f it won't turn over. It turned just fine yesterday when I finished installing the rod bearings, and even with the knock idle was steady, she didn't run hot, and there was no noticeable loss of power. Old bearings were in place and intact, just worn to the brass in some cases and a little scratched up in others. Crank was fine, save for one small scratch on the #1 rod journal. I DID notice that #2 piston was a little harder to push up/down than the others at one point when I was replacing the rod bearing there, but I checked that out today and it was easily manipulated. All new bearings plastigaged within spec, and I used a torque wrench to tighten rods bearing caps to 51ft-lbs, main caps to 76 ft-lbs. If I didn't know any better I'd say the truck was stuck in 5th gear, but the shifter is fine and it moves positively into and out of all the gears. What do you guys think? I'm lost here.

T_F_E

Is there a click or anything? Could be something simple like the clutch safety switch, wife not pushing in the clutch all the way?

justin_4runner

batt? got 12 volts? starter good? is something binding up? or above items? did u loosen or remove any grounds? even if u got 12 volts need to make sure u have good grounds. do u have a alarm or stock alarm on your car? might be stopping the starter from working... just some ideas...

NCRebel

Battery is good, 1 year old and I had it hooked up to a charger all day. The starter hits, the engine just doesn't turn over at all. Even with the transmission in neutral and with the clutch pushed in to try to rule that out, I can't get the crank to budge with a 2' breaker bar (so that rules out any starter/battery issue). I've got bad luck in that when I fix one thing another one kicks me in the ass on this vehicle, for example when I replaced the power steering idler pulley/belt, first time I turned the wheel to check function engine cut off.....turned out to be ignition wires in the steering column had broken, I paid hell trying to figure that one out. So we'll see......would it be worth it to drop the rear driveshaft just to rule out it being stuck in gear? I can't picture a seized piston, etc., as freely as they moved when I replaced rod bearings.

NCRebel

Anything else I could have missed here, or any other steps I could try besides removing the driveshaft? I read here and there about compression lock--what is that exactly?

xxxtreme22r

I might have missed something but is the engine turning at all? Have you tried turning it by hand via the crank.

NCRebel

Yep, I tried turning it by hand to help prime the oil pump, and it wouldn't turn at all. While I was replacing the rod bearings, I could turn it with a 6" socket wrench with a cheater bar, now putting all I have into it with a 24" breaker bar and a cheater bar, and nothing! Right now pistons #2 and #3 are close to top dead center so I haven't loosened those rod bearing caps yet, but it turned over fine after I torqued them down--I put in #1 and #4 last. However, I removed those bearings and caps, and loosened (loosened bolts on and wiggled until they came unstuck) the main bearing caps. Crank still won't turn. Didn't get to work on it today because of work/bad snow storm, I'll get back at it later this week. I'll loosen the other two rod bearing caps and see if that helps, and I guess that will let me determine if a piston is compromised. I apologize if I'm asking/stating the obvious, my mechanical inclinations aren't the greatest--it's taken me over five days to replace the bearings and oil pump seals!

xxxtreme22r

Just so I understand, you wiped a rod bearing out which is why you replaced the rod bearings right?

NCRebel

She was knocking, but none of the rod bearings had spun, and all were fully intact--couple of them worn to the brass, couple of them scratched up a little (i.e. one scratch), that was it. Ditto the mains, no spun bearings, only issue with the crank was one scratch on the #1 rod journal. Honestly I was a little dissapointed, and worried that maybe it was something else, but I know the valves are alright, wrist pins seemed fine (each piston had plenty of rotational free play), and as mentioned earlier I could move each piston up and down freely while changing out rod bearings. Everything was plastigaged and torqued to spec, and in order as stated in the FSM.

xxxtreme22r

I think it's time to take that whole motor apart and have thew crank turned and rods machined. Sounds like to me you got some binding issues with any of the bearings. Even a small nick in a bearing journal can wipe out a bearing fast. It's also possible when putting those bearings in that they were pinched a little and mushroomed the edges where they meet with the other bearing side. Especially if done when the block was still in the truck.

This is one reason why I am against anyone replacing known bad bearings without machining the crank and rods. Or at least having them checked by a machine shop. Plastigauging them only tells half the story. And doing that assumes you have perfectly round journals. Which is very possible they aren't if the engine was knocking.

I'd be almost willing to bet once you get those other rods apart that that motor frees up considerably.

NCRebel

I'm gonna pull the rest of the bearing caps to try to rule this out, if it turns over then then I'm f'd--we'll see. I really appreciate the input. This truck is my daily driver and I don't have the time/money to get machine work done--it will either be get another 22RE and drop it in, or sell this one and get a car

yoda604

I'm having the same problem on a complete rebuild. I adjusted the valves after and I can't turn the motor either by hand or starter. could it be a bent valve?

razed

There's your problem. You have warpage.
Time to line-bore and such; total rebuild.

You can say plastigage this and that and such and such clearance, but that doesnt correct or even measure oval'd crank or rod throws.

Bojangles

The first thing that popped into my mind is you may have the timing off and the pistons are hitting valves...
But that seems unlikely...


It wont turn clockwise or counter clockwise?

yoda604

for me it wont turn any direction. The timing was quadruple checked not only by me but by my buddy as well. top dead center, notch in the pully/sporcket lines up with the lifter assembly mark. and everything, i mean everything is new. and even while i was adjusting the valves everything turned freely and sounded good. it wasn't until i tried to start it and it almost fired that I was un able to turn it at all

yoda604

Just a bit of an update. After almost a complete dis-assemble, re-assemble and the same problem again. I had my buddy come over. 15 minutes later, he went under the truck, pulled off the oil pan cover. removed the rear rod cap and found that the bearing had a small nick in it and because oil had not been pumped through the system yet it was siezing up. replaced the bearing and fired right up.

So NC Rebel, after tons of troubleshooting and a bit of help, I believe that you are having one of 2 problems:

1) if you drive through water a lot, check you starter. Sometimes the water fuses the starter and you will be unable to turn the motor at all.

2) it's the bottom end. Either main, or rod bearings.

If it is 2 start with the rod bearings because you will not have to pull the motor to change them and a whole set is like $25. If it's the main bearings, well have fun.