lectric80

Yes, I searched, and there is a lot of information, but no one that actually tells me everything I need to know.

So, a little background:

90 4x4 pickup 22re 201k on the clock. I pulled the valve cover yesterday and adjusted the lash to .008 intake and .012 exhaust. Still have the same tap. It sounds like just a single rocker tapping. No idea on oil pressure there is no gauge in this truck and since it is a driver/beater truck I don't want to spend a bunch of cash on it. There was plenty of oil at the top end when it was open. No lash appeared to be very far off, most were in spec or slightly too tight. Chain guides were intact, and the noise appears to be coming from the top rear of the engine.

So, my next step is to deal with a bad #1 spark plug, the end came off and stripped, going to replace all plugs and wires later today. However, I pulled that wire with the engine running and it makes no difference, so it isn't the source of the noise.

So, exhaust leak is a possibility but this doesn't sound like a leak, it is a very clear tapping that increases steadily with RPM. Pitch doesn't change regardless of RPM, it is a steady tap noise. I do know of a very small exhaust leak from a broken bolt on the manifold, but the sound is not coming from there, and it is a very different sound. The broken exhaust bolt will be repaired this weekend as well as doing a new seal kit for the leaky oil pump.

So at this point I am thinking of a few possibilities based on what I found searching here, and I am hoping some of you can give some insight into how to properly check this stuff:

1. Bad rocker bushing - no idea how to identify this
2. Cam flat spotted - I can check this pretty closely when I take off the rockers
3. Bad/broken valve spring - seems unlikely but I will check them all with the rockers off
4. Rockers hitting baffle at top of valve cover - possible but unlikely since I didn't see any wear on the baffle when I had the cover off

Anything else I missed? How do I check the bushings to see if maybe one has gone bad? What about worn rocker shafts?

Unfortunately this is my driver, and I cover 70+ miles a day 5 days a week. The oil is changed regularly, and I run Napa Gold oil filters exclusively. I count on this truck to get me decent mileage, which it has been for a long time, but I also need it to last so I want to resolve this soon. The noise has gotten worse this week, just in the last couple days, so it is currently parked while I use the more costly Safari to get to work.

Once I get past this issue I want to look at any way I can boost the power a bit. Yeah I am well aware that the engine is far from a powerhouse, but it would be nice not to get outrun by everything on the road.

my 75 toyota

Im having the same problem sounds like at back around number 3 or 4 cyl. Very noticeable while driving

lectric80

Nobody can tell me how to verify the rocker bushings? I guess I need to just start tearing things apart.

my 75 - I will post up with what I find after I tear into it tomorrow. I won't have time to get to it today, and yesterday was really busy, but I should be able to give you some ideas to check. If you haven't already checked the things I have, please go check them out. Everything I listed was either taken from this site, and others who have had simliar problems, or from past experience with engines. I have now had 3 22r's, and 2 made it well over 300k before my young reckless disregard for maintenance took them out. This is just an odd one that I haven't been able to identify yet.

superex87

These engines are known for wearing out the valve train. Supposedly a poor oiling design for the cylinder head. The rocker arms wear into the rocker shafts creating lots of play. LC engineering has a complete new rocker arm assembly that addresses the poor oiling issue. Though I have no experience with LC engineering valve train so I don't know for sure if it fixes the problem long term.

lectric80

Thanks for the information, I will pull the rocker assembly tomorrow and take a look. Been doing a bit of studying, just need to decide if I can afford to wait for a new assembly or just order new shafts from Napa which can get here much faster. I will post up with my findings and some pics if possible.

lectric80

Ok, has anyone dealt with toyheadauto.com? I looked at LC Engineering, but $450 for a rocker set, plus a $60 core is just way too much money for me to spend at this point. I can buy a good used engine for that much. Toyhead has a basically stock parts rocker assembly (resurfaced OEM rockers) for far less at $170 plus $60 core. I know it won't fix the oiling issue, but with the engine already sitting at 201k I am not too worried. I think I can easily get another 200k out of this engine with proper maintenance.

Unless someone says there is a reason not to do it, I will probably go with them for the rocker assembly and engnbldr for the 268* RV cam. If I have to replace the rockers I might as well do a new cam while I am there, and a bit more power would be nice.

Inferno451

The valves set at stock specification are just loud. That's just the way it is with a worn drivetrain. I set mine tighter and it runs silent as the grave. Lots of people on here set them to .007 and .011 COLD.

lectric80

Already tried adjusting them a bit tight, but the tap persists. I am used to the slightly noisy valve train as this isn't my first 22r engine, but this is a new issue. In the past, with the others, the only time I got taps like this were when I was low on oil. In this case I have plenty of oil, good oil flow at the top of the engine, but this persistent tap that only started last week. If it hadn't of suddenly come up I wouldn't worry about it, but since I have been driving this truck for almost 25k miles, a new noise is a problem to be dealt with now.

I should explain, I did the screwdriver trick to locate the tap noise, after replacing the exhaust gasket, spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor, and it appears to be the area around #2 or #3 that is tapping. None of the things I fixed/replaced made any change to the noise, including resetting the lash.

lectric80

Assuming I am right about a bad rocker, I should know by this weekend. I need to call engnbldr this morning and order the cam. He has already told me that it may take a day or two before it ships out due to stock right now. Man what great customer service!

Rockers are just coming from Napa, as well as Felpro gaskets. I hope to have it torn down and back together this weekend but it will depend on the cam making it here. I will post up when I figure out which rocker it is, or if I find a cam issue. Hopefully the new cam will help me find a bit more power out of this engine.

lectric80

So an update, the #3 exhaust rocker was badly worn, nearly through the cam pad. There is also damage to the cam, and #4 exhaust also had some wear although no cam damage. The remaining rockers were all in very good condition, but they are all going to be replaced.

I have new rockers ready to go, as well as the 268* cam from engnbldr, but I have a new concern. The head bolt between 3 and 4 exhaust was very badly rusted, and was extremely hard to remove. I am not sure if there is a crack in the head or if this is a common problem. I don't remember seeing this on previous 22r's, but I am hoping the experts here can tell me. My concern is that it is right there where the bad rockers were, it sits directly between them.

lectric80

Almost done, and then BAM!, break a tiny bolt off in the intake and I have no clue what I am going to do. It was one of the small bolts that hold the heater pipe onto the intake manifold block on the head. I am going to pull the intake completely out, and see if I can get the piece out. If not my buddy has another EFI intake I can probably work a deal on to get my truck back on the road.

That was it, I needed to tighten those two bolts, hook up the EGR crossover pipe, then install the plenum. I was almost done and ready to break in the cam. Speaking of which, number three exhaust lobe had a flat spot, pretty noticeable one at that, that was causing my tap. I will do my best to take pictures of the rockers and cam showing the wear, but I don't know how well they will turn out.

All new rockers and cam are in place, with heavy amounts of assembly lube. I have also added some high zinc break in oil to help protect the new cam. Valve lash was set tight at .006 intake and .008 exhaust, hopefully I will have a nice quiet valve train with that. I will be double checking lash once I complete cam break in. Hopefully this bolt issue won't be too bad and I can get this thing running later tonight.

lectric80

I got it fixed, unfortunately one of my children got to my camera so I can't take pictures. Runs well, starts quick, and seems to have a bit more pep. No long drives yet, and it appears the gasket is leaking at the top of the timing cover. Going to keep an eye on it and if I need to do the timing cover I will at the same time I do the oil pump seal. Probably in the next two weeks or so. I still need to double check the timing, it is just rough set based off the marks I made before tearing it down.

Cam break in was 3 rounds at 15 minutes maintaining 1500-2500 RPM and fluctuating the throttle a little. Temp was a bit high, but that is most likely just the fact that I wasn't moving and I was still clearing the air from the system. I will top it off before I take it to work tonight to be safe, as well as keep a close eye on the oil level. Valve train is quiet as can be I think.

lectric80

First good run in and I have to say I am impressed. My drive to work consists of about 37 miles each way with about 90% being freeway/highway driving. Along the way there are several places the freeway rises to go over a small tunnel and some RR tracks. Prior to the change the truck would lose 5-10 MPH just going up the hills, then gain it back on the downhill side. Now I can climb the same hills without losing any speed, accelerate from 55 to 75 without downshifting in less than a mile (that may not sound like much but it took about 2.5-3 miles before if I didn't shift down to fourth) and there is a noticeable increase in pep. I would highly recommend this cam to anyone with a driver that is looking for a bit of a power boost.

The timing is still a bit off, idle is really low once it is warmed up. All the air in the cooling system appears to have cleared out, but I will monitor it for a while. Not sure on the oil leak, it didn't appear during the first cam break in run, only during the second. I took the truck for a drive after the third break in run, and after parking I saw no signs of oil leakage. It may have just been oil that got spilled when I removed the head, and it took getting the engine hot to run off, or it may be leaking around the front of the timing cover. Going to watch and then decide what I need to do.

Does everyone usually put a bit of silicone around the timing cover/head gasket mating area? I have never done that, but I have never had a leak from that area. Both mine, and a buddy of mine who just rebuilt his, have a leak in this area and I want to ensure I get it killed since I hate oil leaks.

my 75 toyota

Yeah i currently have my vehicle up for sell on ebay and if it dont sell i was looking at the master rebuild kit from ENGBLDR it has the rv cam included which cam did you use Lectric80

my 75 toyota

Oh and did you get aluminum rockers from napa or what and how much

lectric80

I used the 268* RV cam from Engnbldr with new aluminum rockers from Napa. My Napa showed 2 different rockers, one with each rocker at about $10 and one at $25. In my case, I didn't have a lot of cash so I went with the cheaper version. Total cost was about $117 including shipping for the cam and about $73 for new rockers. I rebuilt/reused my rocker shafts since they showed no wear signs, but they are available from Napa as well if you need them for about $40 each. I already had an exhaust gasket set at $25, intake cost about $5 and head gasket cost about $35. You can get a complete top end gasket set for around $75.

When you tear down the rocker assembly, simply pull the single screw at the front of the rocker assembly, then everything slides off of both shafts. Keep a close eye on the 2 spacers near the center on the intake side, without them the rockers won't line up with the valves.

lectric80

So, it's been quite a while since I updated this, or even posted here, so a few long term notes about the changes I made here.

1. I now have over 214k on the clock, and she still runs great and strong with the new cam.
2. I am currently averaging 24-25 MPG with the shell off and tailgate closed. It might be possible to get a bit better with the tailgate open, but I have my spare back there and don't want any chance of it slipping out. With the shell on I get 22-23 typically. Your results will probably vary since my driving is almost entirely highway/freeway. I drive 75 miles a day and all but about 5 of that is at 65+. I also have a tendancy to run up to 80 MPH on I-80. I also calculated this while my skid plate was off, it is still off because I need to deal with a leaky pinion.
3. I am still able to maintain 5th gear under almost all conditions. Winds certainly slow me a bit, but I can typically maintain 65-70 on the freeway even with strong winds.

There have been a few minor issues come up, including the loss of an exhaust bolt yesterday and a broken timing chain guide. But, that cam and rockers have held up really well, and I did go ahead and readjust the lash when I did the guide. The guide breaking also forced me to finally resolve the oil leak issue from the oil pump, which included a new sleeve on the dampener to resolve the groove that was in it.

Of course now I need to deal with a gear oil leak on the front diff, but that is an unrelated matter.

Edit: I should point out I made a rather boneheaded mistake when I was doing the guide. I got it all put back together and tried to start it, but I hadn't put the air tube in from the filter to the throttle body, so of course it fired right up and died. I should have remembered that the computer doesn't know the engine is running if it doesn't sense air flow.

semperfi121212

im having the same problem, ended up being a froze up push rod. these yota's are notorious for the valve problems.

great-info-thanks

If I put a finger on the four nuts with the rubber bottoms (I think they're called gramonts) that are on the studs off the head that hold the valve cover down, I can feel my engine ticking/clicking. The ticking is more intense on different nuts and I've readjusted my valves based on which nut felt like the hardest hits were by it.

Weeks ago I put my 22re 87 4runner in 4-wheel drive and pulled a big fallen branch backwards for about 15 feet. I unfortunately had forgotten that I had the emergency brakes on and man did it make the brand new front brakes smell.

Well since then the engine made scary noises that 30-35% Lucus Oil in an oil change and 4 valve adjustments (done while the engine was cold but I used suggested smaller gaps to compensate for the engine not being at operating temperature) have improved, (or more like changed) the noise but what remains is when the car is warmed up there is a strong, poorly adjusted tappit clicking/hitting kind of sound and I can feel metal hitting metal when touching the four nuts that hold the valve cover down.

The gas mileage for the car has improved quite noticably, to the point where it's become fun to watch the gas gauge, and the power is roughly the same, though weaker now at idle (to point where the engine can lug when in gear at idle like it didn't before.)

The timing chain is tight and the plastic (unfortunately not metal) chain guides look fine. I have loosened the valve cover nuts and while the engine is running don't feel metal hitting metal when I put my hand on the valve cover (but as noted before do when I put my finger on the nuts over the four studs that come up from the head that hold the valve cover down.)

One of your great posts suggested finding where the noise is the loudest, from the top, the front or bottom. I need to do that.

If it is a valve smacking metal I am concerned that the valve could break, though from posts I get the impression other fellow owners have heard in their car(s) this noise for a very long time. I have to wonder if it's as loud as mine after the engine is warmed up.

Any other suggestions, words of solace? Thanks.

lectric80

Well, first I will point out that the emergency brakes have nothing to do with the front brakes, that only affects the rear brakes.

Pull the valve cover and rotate the engine by hand. Pay attention to each cam lobe as it rotates around, if any are not almost perfectly shiny all the way around you have found your problem. If you really revved the engine while pulling the branch it could easily have flat spotted the cam. The rockers all ride on arms that those 4 studs for the valve cover are mounted to, so if one is shaking because of a bad cam you could feel it there.

If it is a tapping noise this is your quick way to find the problem, if it is a rod knock, or like when this particular engine went out on me a couple months ago, a rod rattle, the sound should be much lower on the engine. I suggest the cam first because it is the quickest one to identify.