BrendenD

Guys,

I can't figure out whats going on with my 22RE.
My gf is saying if I can't fix it with another $500-750 we have to get another vehicle...
like a honda civic... :-(

Specs:
91 Toyo Pickup, auto, 2wd,
22re rebuilt 8k km ago

Problems:
-Engine Stalls out after the vehicle has been running for 20+ minutes (when its at operating temp), particularily after idling in traffic.
-fuel economy not great - 16-21 mpg city

What I know:
- Compression good (150 psi dry)
- No warning lights/ no codes coming up (TE-E1) (wtf)
- New plugs (gapped correctly), cap, and rotor
- Fresh oil, air filter cleaned
- Voltage testing at the ECU was mostly in spec except:- I have 12.53 V across the battery (truck off) and 14.51 V (when running). With accessories on such as radio and heater it drops to 14.48 V. When running the alternator reads 14.75 V (pos lead at alt positive cable, negative lead on frame ground)

- The truck will run if I remove the negative battery cable once started. However if I turn on an accessory circuit (like heater fan) the vehicle will stall out. This is the only time I have been able to recreate a stall condtion.

- I had the battery (which is 2 yrs old) bench tested and the auto store reported 12.45V but 0 amps! Its rated for 875 cranking amps. Yet for the most part the vehicle fires up without issue (I have had to boost it a few times now)

- connections appear clean, and free of corrosion. All fuses good.

- When I changed plugs 2 weeks ago they looked like this (see attached)


- The valves need to be readjusted, timing and idle should be good.



I can't seem to wrap my mind around what the problem is. Battery? Battery and alternator? Ignition circuit? Where should I spend my effort/ money next?

Your help is greatly appreciated

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

When was the fuel filter last replaced ??

Once it quits how do you get it running again??

Have you check resistance of the coil when this happens??

When it is hot!!

Girl friends can also be traded in for newer models as well when they get old and cranky !!

BrendenD

Thanks for the feedback Wyoming9, you helped me out with my exhaust too. Sage advice about upgrading models ... haha

- The filter was changed with the engine 8k km ago
- The coil was testing within spec

- At first, when it quit, I could throw it in park, wait a minute, then fire it up again. Then more often then not, I would have to boost it (lights would come on, but it wouldn't crank over). This is why I was focusing on the electrical elements.

- Note, I haven't been able to recreate the stall condition the way it happens when I am out driving.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I would look at your ground connections .

if one or all are bad if they move as the engine and body flex while driving it might be enough to cause the ignition to lose power and shut off.

Your two main grounds coming off the negative battery terminal should go to the engine block and the inner fender.

Battery terminals clean and tight not broken??



Loose fuse in the fuse block losing contact at times.

The stalling happens all the time ??

You really don`t want to be pulling off the battery cable with the engine running that can cause strange things to happen in not a good way. In these newer engines compared to back in my youth.

I am not a Auto Trans person could very well be something I have no clue about .

It is rough if you need to pay labor to have work done on these trucks.

BrendenD

Update:

- I forgot to mention: the first thing I did when I noticed the stall/mpg problem
was check for fuel leaks. I didn't find any leaks from the gas tank to injectors

- I was getting impatient so I took my truck and test results
to the dealership by my work for 1.5 hrs of diagnostic help.

- The Toyota Tech could hear a difference in the idle when electrical load was
increased. They were able to recreate the stalling by maxing out the electrical
load on the vehicle, wipers+lights+fan+radio+cig lighter... everything on.

- The tech pulled a fuel line and noticed fuel pressure was good without any
accessory circuits on, but it would drop when the electrical load was increased

- Fuel pump was in spec... HOWEVER... when they checked the "circuit opening relay (fuel pump relay)"
they found it was full of water and looked as shown attached.

- I understand the opening relay was being shorted out. Particularily under higher
voltage draw (accessories on), the relay would arc and cut off fuel to the engine.
Note: I believe that is how the tech explained it, but I am just now understanding
the role of this relay

- There is likely a crack/break in the windshield perimeter seal that is allowing
water to drip down the harness and into the relay. My ECU, glovebox, and passenger
carpet which are in the vicinity of the relay are all dry. Otherwise I would
have looked at this area sooner.

- I bypassed the relay by connecting Fp - B on the diagnostic terminal, drove
the truck home without issue and will just wait for parts now.

$750 - 293 = $457 to hopefully deal with the leak and then evaluate if
any other issues are present

BrendenD

-I checked most connections I could easily get too before I started voltage testing.

- I wire brushed and tightened down the battery terminals and connections before voltage testing too.

Curious. What can happen if I disconnected the battery to test the alternator?

I noticed fsm and the haynes manual don't mention that procedure, just some guy on youtube.
I figured it wasn't best practice...but I was getting desperate and it was a quick and dirty check.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Could be you could get lucky like you did.

With the ECU and computers on the vehicle can get a surge depending just what loads might be powered at the time.

Since when the key is on current flows to the ecu/ECM

RJR

You don't need to disconnect the battery to test your alternator, and as Wyoming says, you shouldn't - it's bad for the electronics. Your multimeter will tell you everything you need to know. Just turn on lights and heater fan, and measure the battery voltage with the engine running at a fast idle. If it's above about 13.3V the alternator is doing its job, because a loaded battery by itself can't produce that much voltage no matter how good it is. And, furthermore, if you have 13.3+ volts on the battery, it will be charging from the alternator (assuming it's a working battery.)

Ideal voltage on the battery when the engine is running should be about 13.75. Above 14.5 you're cooking your battery. Much below 13.3 or so and your charging is going to be slow - probably indicates a weak alternator or poor connections.

BrendenD

Thanks for the input guys,

Sounds like I better do another round of voltage testing at the ECM to make sure I didn't cook anything.

I will report back if the fuel pump relay doesn't solve the problem. I haven't been driving but I took it around the neighborhood a few times with the jumper wire between and B+ and Fp. I couldn't get it to stall out with various levels of electrical loading.

RJR

So just to clarify about the circuit opening relay. That relay supplies power to the fuel pump when the engine is running. It is activated by a switch in the air flow meter in the engine air intake. If the air flow stops (meaning the engine has stopped), the relay opens and shuts off the fuel pump. This is for safety in case of an accident - if your engine stops and your truck is all bent up with fuel lines severed you don't want the fuel pump continuing to run pouring gasoline all over the wreckage. Jumpering B+ to Fp bypasses that safety feature. It's a good diagnostic procedure to isolate your problem as you've done, but you want to replace the circuit opening relay as soon as you can.

It's quite likely that replacing your relay with a good one will fix your problem, given what you've discovered thus far.

Chances are your ECU is OK in spite of disconnecting your battery. Generally Toyota (and other manufacturers) work pretty hard to make the electronics robust and resistant to surges, etc. It's just good practice not to test how robust the electronics really are, however. Leave that to the Toyota hardware qualification engineers. They've got more money for replacement parts than you have.

Odin

I took the factory matting out of my truck and discovered the windshield was leaking on the passengers side and is STILL leaking on the drivers side. I purchased the truck used so no telling how long it's been leaking.
If all that water is just left there the water will obviously cause rust in the floor pan. But all that condensation from it sitting there can cause your electrical connections to turn white with corrosion. I found a little on a few connections.

I cleaned up what I could with a brass brush and applied dielectric grease to the grounds, then I sprayed DeoxIT DN5 on everything I could unplug. The truck seems to run a little better after that, could be the placebo effect though.