22re rough idle/ vacuum hose problem
08-08-2010, 06:50 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
22re rough idle/ vacuum hose problem
Hello all, long time reader first time poster.
I bought a 88 4runner 22re 5 spd with 390,000 km. Blew the head gasket driving back from the interior.
Full rebuild with a stage 2 cam was around 8 months ago, and she is running good but idles rough most of the time. she idles smooth between 950-1050 and thats what she is set at however when she is cold and roughly 70% of the time she will idle between 550 and 850 which is much too low almost stalling out at the lower rpm.
A few ideas i have as to why this could be:
1: i have a few vacuum hoses unconnected and i would assume that some are vital in the engines normal idle.
2: my coolant temp sensor is shot, it will not read accurately. it starts at 0 and will randomly shoot up to around half and sometimes drop back down, its almost like the gauge is sticking and this is what caused me to blow my motor originally.
i know that if the ecu cant get proper temp of the motor it cant tell it at what rpm to idle at. Also the coolant temp sensor seems to be unconnected and has one wire going to it, i ordered the factory toyota coolant temp sensor and it looks the same except is a two prong cable not a one...
First pictures attached are of the open vaccum lines. then the temp sensor with unconnected connector. and the final is another open vaccum and some other mysterious connector.
So i have come to you experts, if any of you can give me an idea of which hose goes where, or even some detailed pictures of your 22re with proper hoses and temp sensor. and maybe some other things i can try to get this baby idleing more smooth.
any help would be greatly appreciated.
I bought a 88 4runner 22re 5 spd with 390,000 km. Blew the head gasket driving back from the interior.
Full rebuild with a stage 2 cam was around 8 months ago, and she is running good but idles rough most of the time. she idles smooth between 950-1050 and thats what she is set at however when she is cold and roughly 70% of the time she will idle between 550 and 850 which is much too low almost stalling out at the lower rpm.
A few ideas i have as to why this could be:
1: i have a few vacuum hoses unconnected and i would assume that some are vital in the engines normal idle.
2: my coolant temp sensor is shot, it will not read accurately. it starts at 0 and will randomly shoot up to around half and sometimes drop back down, its almost like the gauge is sticking and this is what caused me to blow my motor originally.
i know that if the ecu cant get proper temp of the motor it cant tell it at what rpm to idle at. Also the coolant temp sensor seems to be unconnected and has one wire going to it, i ordered the factory toyota coolant temp sensor and it looks the same except is a two prong cable not a one...
First pictures attached are of the open vaccum lines. then the temp sensor with unconnected connector. and the final is another open vaccum and some other mysterious connector.
So i have come to you experts, if any of you can give me an idea of which hose goes where, or even some detailed pictures of your 22re with proper hoses and temp sensor. and maybe some other things i can try to get this baby idleing more smooth.
any help would be greatly appreciated.
08-08-2010, 07:06 PM
#2
Contributing Member
Can't see your photos. Upload them to photobucket and copy the "img" tags over into your text.
Yes, vacuum lines plugged in their correct locations are absolutely vital to having a smooth idle.
Yes, vacuum lines plugged in their correct locations are absolutely vital to having a smooth idle.
08-08-2010, 07:17 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
temp sensor? and first open vacum
temp sensor and connector
open vacuum and mystery connector...
cruise control open vaccum line?
Last edited by mrhtkarl; 08-08-2010 at 07:24 PM.
08-08-2010, 07:19 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
The following users liked this post:
Lilrip72@gmail.com (07-18-2022)
08-08-2010, 08:38 PM
#5
Registered User
Wow, needs a complete hose redo.
First, the temp sender that is not hooked up is for the gauge on the dash. There are actually 3 temp senders on your motor and the one the computer reed is under the TB.
The last picture that is labeled Cruise Control, that actually just gets a filter connected to it by a short piece of hose. No actual vaccum is connected there.
Personally I would rip them all out and start from scratch. Not only will all the hoses be new (no chance of pin holes) but by doing them yourself off of a diagram you will know where they go and what they do.
Here are the diagrams (you need the 4th one down labeled 1985-87 Toyota 22re) http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=579557 Pay close attention to the 4 metal vaccum pipes and which hose goes where at each end of the pipe.
Take it one hose at a time from one end of it to the other and you will have them all in the proper place before you know it.
First, the temp sender that is not hooked up is for the gauge on the dash. There are actually 3 temp senders on your motor and the one the computer reed is under the TB.
The last picture that is labeled Cruise Control, that actually just gets a filter connected to it by a short piece of hose. No actual vaccum is connected there.
Personally I would rip them all out and start from scratch. Not only will all the hoses be new (no chance of pin holes) but by doing them yourself off of a diagram you will know where they go and what they do.
Here are the diagrams (you need the 4th one down labeled 1985-87 Toyota 22re) http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=579557 Pay close attention to the 4 metal vaccum pipes and which hose goes where at each end of the pipe.
Take it one hose at a time from one end of it to the other and you will have them all in the proper place before you know it.
08-09-2010, 10:56 AM
#7
The Temp Sensor you're pointing at in that picture is called the "Thermo-temp Time Switch".... i have one on my 87. It's very difficult to find the EXACT purpose of it, but I believe it relays a message to the ECU for a hot soak purpose, like the Vacuum Switching Valve on the back of the valve cover does.
The 'Coolant Temperature Sensor' is usually under the throttle body, next to the Cold Start Injector Time Switch and is MOST DEFINITELY very important in relation who how you're running. In fact, if you unplug it..... your truck will stall. Keep in mind, as I learned recently, that, ....Your multi-meter needs to be set on 20K when testing that item, especially if your motor is cold. Why? Because the suggested reading is around 2.4K. If you have your meter on 2k, it will drop off, over and over, no matter how many times you hook it up tight. Try it on 20k(If you've done that, then it's unusual for it to drop off 'completely', period. Not very common.)
The missing line on the item on your Throttle body(passenger side of the Tbody) is the Dashpot. It DOES NOT draw vacuum. It is supposed to have a vacuum hose(4" or so) connected to it with a filter on the end that acts in slowing the speed of throttle travel-closing. What I mean is, "When you let off the throttle, instead of slamming shut, it slows down that action of the throttle plate by resisting against the linkage stop screw on the linkage itself. It's argued on this site, often, as to how important that is. I use mine, because when it's not hooked up(or the screw is set back to eliminate it) my idle drops too quickly when the fuel cut system engages.... ME NO LIKEY< lol.
The vacuum line behind that that you pointed to(on the hard metal line?)... That's one of the lines on the vacuum rail that bolts to the head with intake bolts. It is passive...but, if something should be there, and isn't, then that component(EGR, Modulator is what most of them are used for) will NOT serve it's purpose. Not sure if your truck has the BVSV, but it's on top of the coolant temp sensor and those vacuum lines from it go right into that rail at it's front most point. the top ones I believe go to EGR or Modulator. I'd have to look.
You don't have a Vacuum diagram under your hood?
PS> Go to my build thread, below, in red, and you'll find plenty of pictures(as long as most of them are the same as my 87).
The 'Coolant Temperature Sensor' is usually under the throttle body, next to the Cold Start Injector Time Switch and is MOST DEFINITELY very important in relation who how you're running. In fact, if you unplug it..... your truck will stall. Keep in mind, as I learned recently, that, ....Your multi-meter needs to be set on 20K when testing that item, especially if your motor is cold. Why? Because the suggested reading is around 2.4K. If you have your meter on 2k, it will drop off, over and over, no matter how many times you hook it up tight. Try it on 20k(If you've done that, then it's unusual for it to drop off 'completely', period. Not very common.)
The missing line on the item on your Throttle body(passenger side of the Tbody) is the Dashpot. It DOES NOT draw vacuum. It is supposed to have a vacuum hose(4" or so) connected to it with a filter on the end that acts in slowing the speed of throttle travel-closing. What I mean is, "When you let off the throttle, instead of slamming shut, it slows down that action of the throttle plate by resisting against the linkage stop screw on the linkage itself. It's argued on this site, often, as to how important that is. I use mine, because when it's not hooked up(or the screw is set back to eliminate it) my idle drops too quickly when the fuel cut system engages.... ME NO LIKEY< lol.
The vacuum line behind that that you pointed to(on the hard metal line?)... That's one of the lines on the vacuum rail that bolts to the head with intake bolts. It is passive...but, if something should be there, and isn't, then that component(EGR, Modulator is what most of them are used for) will NOT serve it's purpose. Not sure if your truck has the BVSV, but it's on top of the coolant temp sensor and those vacuum lines from it go right into that rail at it's front most point. the top ones I believe go to EGR or Modulator. I'd have to look.
You don't have a Vacuum diagram under your hood?
PS> Go to my build thread, below, in red, and you'll find plenty of pictures(as long as most of them are the same as my 87).
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08-09-2010, 11:18 AM
#8
Looking again at your pics, it's hard to tell, but I believe you have the throttle body vacuum lines(the 3 next to each other on top) hooked up, well, not wrong, but more 'directly'... I'll explain.
I just went out and looked, and if your 88 is the same as mine, then here is the difference in how the guy before you(or you) hooked them up.
1. The line marked 'E' on your throttle body goes to the second line in the vacuum rail.
2. The line marked 'R' on your throttle body left of it?... To the first line.
3. The line marked 'P' on your throttle body, furthest left, is right. It does go to the ....Charcoal Canister on the rear left of engine bay.
Those lines go to your EGR Modulator. HOWEVER; ... It appears to be hooked from 'E' directly to the Modulator.. So you should be fine there.
Check your EGR pipe that goes into the back of the Plenum(Upper intake) and, with the engine warmed up, that pipe should NOT be hot as hell. If it is, you have a problem.(If you can get a vacuum PUMP, it will have instructions how to verify the EGR for SURE. But, you can remove it and plug the vacuum line...checking to see if it runs better, for now. I've had some similar symptoms as you, if you read my Build thread and troubleshooting thread, below in my signature..... but since you don't have a month, haahhaa, ...I'll just say, most of my 'idling down' problem was solved when I replaced my ECU(Was just trying it out with a running 87-swapping them.... and it LARGELY helped). DO NOT go out and buy an ECU. But, if you have one you can swap out really fast from the same year, ...GREAT, why not eh?
First, however, start going through the things that are more likely to cause this.
1. Coolant Temp Sensor
2. AFM
3. TPS
4. Fuel Pressure
5. Spark
6. Distributor and Pick up Function(air gap, too)
7. Coil/Secondary/Ignitor(Not common to slowly go out)
HOWEVER; First thing you're going to start hearing right off, ...and it make sense to check and replace it if it's been a while.... FUEL FILTER
I just went out and looked, and if your 88 is the same as mine, then here is the difference in how the guy before you(or you) hooked them up.
1. The line marked 'E' on your throttle body goes to the second line in the vacuum rail.
2. The line marked 'R' on your throttle body left of it?... To the first line.
3. The line marked 'P' on your throttle body, furthest left, is right. It does go to the ....Charcoal Canister on the rear left of engine bay.
Those lines go to your EGR Modulator. HOWEVER; ... It appears to be hooked from 'E' directly to the Modulator.. So you should be fine there.
Check your EGR pipe that goes into the back of the Plenum(Upper intake) and, with the engine warmed up, that pipe should NOT be hot as hell. If it is, you have a problem.(If you can get a vacuum PUMP, it will have instructions how to verify the EGR for SURE. But, you can remove it and plug the vacuum line...checking to see if it runs better, for now. I've had some similar symptoms as you, if you read my Build thread and troubleshooting thread, below in my signature..... but since you don't have a month, haahhaa, ...I'll just say, most of my 'idling down' problem was solved when I replaced my ECU(Was just trying it out with a running 87-swapping them.... and it LARGELY helped). DO NOT go out and buy an ECU. But, if you have one you can swap out really fast from the same year, ...GREAT, why not eh?
First, however, start going through the things that are more likely to cause this.
1. Coolant Temp Sensor
2. AFM
3. TPS
4. Fuel Pressure
5. Spark
6. Distributor and Pick up Function(air gap, too)
7. Coil/Secondary/Ignitor(Not common to slowly go out)
HOWEVER; First thing you're going to start hearing right off, ...and it make sense to check and replace it if it's been a while.... FUEL FILTER
08-09-2010, 11:46 AM
#9
Registered User
im @ work so i don't have time to do much other than this but hope it helps
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...RE_Engine_Pix/
part of mr. brown's seemingly endless library of toyota knowledge
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...RE_Engine_Pix/
part of mr. brown's seemingly endless library of toyota knowledge
08-09-2010, 12:11 PM
#12
In the first picture, see the two sensors(unlabeled) below the BVSV, facing forward? The one on the right is the CRUCIAL Coolant Temp Sensor. If you have a loose connection on that or bad resistance readings....well, then it MOST DEFINITELY can be a source of your problems...If not THE source. However, I've seen many run without that one on top of the thermostat housing....and not have many issues if any at all. The Coolant Gauge Sender is even less important to the running of the vehicle....but it sure is nice to know, where you're running at, eh? lol.
08-16-2010, 06:48 PM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Ok, i know its been a few weeks but the 20 minute hose job is done.
Things seem to be a bit better, she idles closer to the goal of 950-1000 when cold but once she warms up she will drop down to 650 range... However the 650 now is a bit smoother than before but still a rough idle.
i still managed to find two hoses open, it would make sense that they go to each other... any clarification on these?
It's the third vacuum line on top of the other two that are already connected.
Also, not related but something else of concern... I located two metal pipes that seem to run in one long loop with a kink in the middle...
motor side, my two fingers point to both pipes.
kink right in the middle.
loop near the transfer case
Things seem to be a bit better, she idles closer to the goal of 950-1000 when cold but once she warms up she will drop down to 650 range... However the 650 now is a bit smoother than before but still a rough idle.
i still managed to find two hoses open, it would make sense that they go to each other... any clarification on these?
It's the third vacuum line on top of the other two that are already connected.Also, not related but something else of concern... I located two metal pipes that seem to run in one long loop with a kink in the middle...
motor side, my two fingers point to both pipes. kink right in the middle. loop near the transfer case
Last edited by mrhtkarl; 08-16-2010 at 06:59 PM.
08-16-2010, 06:59 PM
#17
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The first picture that you linked to is the fuel pressure regulator vacuum switching valve (FPR VSV). It needs to be hooked up. It really doesnt matter where it gets vacuum from as long as it gets vacuum. Hook a hose from the first picture linked to the second, see if that helps.
The last three pics you linked to look like they are coolant hoses that would go back to rear air. Im not sure if 1st gen 4runners ever came with rear air option ( think they did
) but looks like someone took yours out possibly.
The last three pics you linked to look like they are coolant hoses that would go back to rear air. Im not sure if 1st gen 4runners ever came with rear air option ( think they did
) but looks like someone took yours out possibly.
