Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Hi guys,

I recently finished my V6 caliper swap over the past few weeks, and noticed while truck was parked in garage that it was dripping coolant on the floor daily - just a little. The past couple months when it was on the road I noticed some drops here and there when parked as well.

This morning, I topped off the radiator and burped the cooling system before heading 25 miles off to work. When I got there, I noticed the leak still fresh and got in there with an LED flashlight and my phone camera.

Below are the photos I took. The leak appears to come from the head, above the freeze plugs in the block on the drivers side, behind the metal coolant pipe. It's dripping down the side of the block.

I'm guesisng this means HG is on its way out? Is it something I can nurse along for a while as long as I keep my coolant level topped off (not having temp spikes or overheating lately)? Could it be that torquing the head bolts down again might help?

I'm new to heads/HG jobs, so forgive the questions if they are boneheaded. I'm learning a lot as I go, but it always seems to be something with this truck

Thanks for any input.

Phil

It's the 2 long, vertical fresh lines of drip in the photos:










And for good measure, here's the truck parked for 10 minutes, with the new puddle forming below it:

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

leaks all travel down from the top. I would carefully examine your intake manifold gasket. It could be running down the head from there as the picture doesn't isn't that good and i can't see the head in detail.

arlindsay1992

iTrader: (8)

He said driver's side. See if you can see the source better from underneath.

vital22re

iTrader: (2)

I missed the driver side part. Well its more likely to be an external hg leak. Better start getting a parts list together. Oem hg please.

92 TOY

not gonna venture a guess on this one. where you are seeing the liquid is not necessarily even near the source. a pin-hole leak under pressure could be sending it far away. likewise any leak may be traveling until it finds a crumb of something to drip off of.

not sure at what point an external headgasket leak occurs.

any other signs??

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks guys for the replies. What would be the difference in an external HG leak versus internal one - and implications?

The engine has 275K on it and I was going to do a rebuild around 300K (but I only put about 5-7K miles a year on this thing, so...).

I'd rather not replace it now if I can put it off.

As far as other signs, the radiator (new 9 years ago) shows accumulated green coolant drops at teh bottom cornders but I can't determine if it's leaking from there or running down from somewhere else. I think I just need to spray degreaser on the size of the block and that general area and start "clean" to see where it's actully coming from.

In the photos it looks pretty clear that it's coming from between the head and block, under the exhaust manifold - there's no coolant flowing inside the engine in that area, above the head, so that's why I was thinking it was the HG.


ugh

92 TOY

ugh is right.

I'd say, clean it up nice and see what is what.

I know you are asking about the implications of an external leak, but I have no clue. I can remember IAMSUPERBLEEDER having an issue right after his rebuild.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks 92TOY - clean up and see what I can see.

92 TOY

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...essing-188750/

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Great reference, thanks! I just read the thread - I think I'll go revive it yet again LOL. Maybe I'll send bleeder a message too - hope to goodness that's all it is....

Still plan to clean up first to isolate the leak.

Stay tuned!

92 TOY

alright man. good luck to you!

snobdds

I would at least do a coolant pressure test to see where the leak is first before condeming it...

iamsuperbleeder

Well, Phil, the thing I'd be concerned about with trying to retorque them is that with 275k miles on them, you may find that one or two simply will not break looks to be retorqed. When I did my engine rebuild with the 296k some miles that it had on it, two head bolts actually snapped clean off while trying to loosen them. When I went back to retorque mine after I found my leak, you have to remember that those head bolts had only been on for 500 miles, so they haven't had gone through the THOUSANDS of heat cycles that a motor with 270k + miles has gone through, so they turned without any problems.

I really wish I could just tell you "give it a shot, you have nothing to loose", but the fact is that if you do try to get in there and retorque them, there's a good chance that you're going to snap a head bolt, at which point you'll have no choice but to go through with a complete head gasket job...

My suggestion, with that many miles all ready on it, start gathering parts and plan a day to dive in and do the head gasket job. Get it done the right way, and enjoy the motor for another 200k miles


But before doing any of that, I would definitely take a very close look at all the hoses and be 100% positive that it's the head gasket leaking. I mean, it's a very good chance that with that many miles the head gasket has finally given up, but you're going to kick yourself in the ass if you do all that work, then when it's all done it still leaks and you come to find out it was a $7 radiator hose all along...

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks bleeder for chiming in and for the perspective about the age/wear on my bolts.

The past couple days I've been spraying and then rinsing the area with a Purple Power knock off brand degreaser in hopes of getting a cleaner slate to examine this week and really determine if it's indeed leaking from there. I'm pretty convinced it's those 2 fresh vertical streams of coolant you see in my photos above (all that other crap has been there for as long as I remember and it's not new).

If I DO end up trying to re torque I have 2 follow up questions for ya:
1) Is my best shot to tighten then as they stand or to break them loose first (and do I break them loose in reverse order of torquing them down?)?
2) If I do snap a bolt (yes, I know I'm in for the HG job at that point), what would be the best way to get that sucker out once the head is off? I have some reverse threaded back out bits from DEWALT that I haven't had to use yet - is that what I'd be doing at that point?

Thanks again, and I'll keep you guys posted on next steps and results.

The good news is that my friend from work, Hgill on this board, just wrapped up his HG replacement this weekend and it started up with no leaks the second turn of the key - so I'll have a fresh reference

iamsuperbleeder

Well, before you even try to break them loose and retorque them, plan on one breaking; basically, don't plan on needing the truck immediately afterwards in case one DOES break and you need to do the head gasket job...

You would probably want to try to break then loose first (counter clockwise) just enough to make them move. I wouldn't even loosen them more than a 1/4 turn. Then, retorque them to about 65 ft/lbs. Just follow the same sequence use to torque them down to break them loose, then go through and follow the sequence to 58 ft/lbs, then again to 65 ft/lbs.

If a bolt does snap and you dig into the head gasket job, what I used to get mine out was a Vise-Grip pipe wrench just like this one:





I was able to get a bite on the studs, despite one only having maybe 1/2" left above the block's surface.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

I degreased the engine twice over the weekend with a Purple power knockoff that I'd used on my V6 calipers before I painted them - got a good amount of the grime off but there still is some residual from years of use, along the drivers side block just behind the timing cover.

This morning, it was dry, but then I drove it 1 mile to the train station and took some photos - it's leaking, from the same spot I thought.







This one shows it best - Between the $1 cylinder header tube and the lower coolant hose:






So, it appears it is indeed the HG leaking. The wife is not going to be happy about this thing getting back in the garage again, after being there the past 3 weeks for the V6 caliper swap I'm thinking of holding off on this as long as I can - no mixing with oil yet, and I'm keeping an eye on the coolant levels frequently (radiator still full as of this morning).

I was all jazzed about my new Supra AFM and Chevy springs that have been lying in wait for so long....damn.

Stu Pidasso

That seems to be the way this stuff goes when you play with old trucks. I had done a Supra AFM swap, rebuilt my front and rear axle, added lockers front and rear, replaced all 4 shocks, and put on a new set of tires when my timing chain broke. I can understand the wife not being happy about hogging up the garage space. I suppose what you could do is either buy a head from EngnBldr or you could have a shop build you a head, then take your truck apart between a Friday evening and Saturday morning, then drop the new head on and finish it up on Sunday. That would not be too hard to do. Unless you want to go ahead and build a motor for it. Realistically if you have all the stuff you need before you turn the first bolt, it can be done in 3 days. There is not much to pulling one of these engines out. I did it by myself and it was the first time I had ever done it all on my own. I had just helped a little before that. I used SuperBleeder's thread to get me through.

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Stu - I know I'm not alone on that LOL. I jsut spent an hour talking with HGill here at work, looking at his truck (He just finished up his HG/268* ENGNBLDR head swap job last week so that helped, while all the iinfo was fresh in his head

I think I'll try to get it in my garage in the next couple weeks and try the bolt tightening job - if it snaps, I'm in for the HG replacement. My big thing is, should I do the head while I'm at it, or just do the HG and pray it lasts a few more years until I do a complete rebuild (on my long term list). Also would be a ton cheaper to do the HG only this go round!

I'll keep you guys posted, and thanks again

Philbert

iTrader: (2)

Now that I got my Datsun running again (replaced a leaking heater hose that ran from the engine bay into the heater core - sense a theme here?...), I had the guts to try out Bleeder's approach to re-torquing the head bolts today.....


Loosened a quarter turn in the same order as the FSM says to tighten, then tightened to 58 ft/lbs in the same order, then again to 63 ft/lbs. No snapped head bolts, yay!

Did a pressure test on the cooling system and it held 13-14 PSI for 20 minutes with no visible leaks. Then idled it for 20 minutes and no visible leaks.






Thanks again Bleeder

Crossing my fingers that it did the trick!

Phil

Huntingtruckcletus

I'm glad this worked for you! I was in complete doubt that retightening the head bolts would of worked with this many miles on it! It saved you a lot of hard work. Let us know how long it last, hopefully you have no more problems out of it!

Okay so since I didn't see it posted anywhere on here I figured I'd try to explain the difference between and external hg leak and and internal leak. Im no where close to an expert but ive learned a few thing since i got my 93 22re a few years ago! External leaks cause oil or coolant to run down the side of your block. These aren't as bad because of the motor doesn't run hot or run to low on oil they don't cause much damage in most cases! Internal leaks are more troublesome. Usually an internal leak mixes your water and oil. I know from personal experience that this can cause a lot of damage to your crankshaft and cause your rod bearing to go or seize up. Internal leaks can also cause water to leak into your chamber causing water to be forced out your overflow everytime the piston comes up.