John79

I just replaced the timing chain and gears on my 22re and put everything back together but it won't start. Since I had the valves cut when i had the head off I thought I would adjust them cold to make sure they were close enough to get the engine running. When i had the engine at TDC the intake valve rocker is loose but the exhaust is not on cyl #1 because the cam is starting to put pressure on it. The manual says at TDC both valve rockers on cyl #1 should be loose. It seems like the timing is off but when I put the new chain on I had the marks lined up. Is there anyway to check without taking the timing cover off again? I really dont think it slipped off the crank sprocket when putting the head on but I don't know what else could be the problem. any ideas would be appreciated.

Flash319

There are 2 different TDC. It is a 4 cycle engine so the piston is at the top 2 times for a full cycle. This means that when you have the mark at 0 deg on the crank pully it can be 180 degrees out. Just turn the crank one more turn to the mark again to get the "combustion" TDC which is both valves closed (both tappets loose).

abecedarian

Be very very careful if you don't disassemble it and try rotating it by hand. Pull all the sparkplugs and spin it very slowly since it doesn't take much force from a piston to bend a valve.

...as mentioned there are two TDC- one where the piston is at the end of the compression stroke / start power stroke and one when the piston is at the top of the exhaust stroke / start of the intake stroke. You set the valves at the top of the compress / power stroke (or can set an individual valve if it is off the ramp / on the heel of the cam)... but either the valves should both be loose (closed at tdc compression/power), or both have some tension on them (tdc exhaust/intake). At the top of the exhaust / start of intake strokes, there should some overlap where the exhaust valve is closing and the intake valve is opening and both are open slightly.

-edit: nevermind the cover question: you were replacing the chain.

John79

it is at the combustion TDC if I turn it one more revolution it will be on the intake stroke with the intake valve wide open.

abecedarian

At the correct TDC, both valves should be loose.
If it IS at TDC and the exhaust valve is tight (like you said to begin with) but not the intake, there's a problem, like maybe the chain on the cam or crank is off a tooth (or more).

here's a little more detail:
1) intake valve opens just before piston reaches TDC
2) exhaust valve closes as piston passes TDC.
3) intake valve is open, piston moves down, drawing air and fuel into the engine.
4) when the piston nears BDC, the intake valve closed
5) piston moves up, compressing mixture
6) piston nears TDC (both valves are closed), sparkplug fires, fuel starts burning
7) piston travels past TDC and pressure in the cylinder is rising, forcing the piston down
8) piston travels past BDC again and exhaust valve opens
9) piston travels up, pushing exhaust out exhaust valve
10) go to 1
in step one, both the exhaust and intake are just barely open, this is called "overlap" and is a function of the camshaft design.

... so for the piston to be at TDC and the exhaust to be open and the intake not... something is off...
If it were my engine and I noticed that one turn of the crank the exhaust valve was tight and one more turn and the intake valve was tight...
Well, maybe the valves are too tight?

Turn the crank until both valves are loose, then set them, then proceed through the other cylinders the same, then see how things go.
If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

deserthound

When the crank indicator is at TDC is the timing mark on the cam gear at the correct spot (essentially top of gear)?

John79

when the crank indicator is at 0 TDC the dot on the camshaft sprocket is in the 2 o'clock postion. It should be straight up 12 o'clock correct?

abecedarian

The keyway on the cam and crankshaft should both be at approximately 12 o'clock when you are at TDC on the compression stroke and both intake and exhaust on #1 should be loose. Given you're at 2 o'clock, sounds like the chain jumped a tooth on the crank sprocket.
I do not recommend turning the crankshaft around since the 22r/re are what's know as "interference engines" meaning that it is possible for a piston to contact a valve and damage the valve. If you have to move the crank, turn the crank left and right, not fully rotate it.

xzyragon

to get mine to TDC, what i did was I took out the #1 spark plug (first one) and cranked the flywheel around. What happens is that through every 2/3 of a rotation, you get a really easy turn, because of the air escaping out of the open spark plug hole. So you crank it around until the easy stroke coincides with the 0 degree mark, the notch on the flywheel. Set it at 5.

Then, take out the distributor, and point the rotor at the 2 'o'clock position, it should rotate the the 10 'o'clock position once its fully in, just make sure that when you bolt it in, the rotor (on the inside of the distributor) touches the metal contact plate. Might take a couple tries. To adjust timing, Rotate the flywheel or turn the distributor.

I ear-tuned the distributor by turning it to where when it was at some RPM (no tach) the door would not wobble.

abecedarian

@xzyragon- 2 comments:
I'd pull all the plugs so it would be easier to feel if a piston is contacting a valve without worrying if the resistance is caused by compression. It doesn't take very much force to bend a valve on these engines.
The rotor in the distributor should not touch the pick-up coil, but should be very close... I think the gap is something along the lines of .008". I think you meant "points straight at".

xzyragon

yes, i meant points straight at.. you know too much

i have heard that you can take all the spark plugs out and put cellophane in each of the cylinders, so you know which cylinder fires when the cellophane blows out.

abecedarian

you could also put a finger over the plug hole and feel the air coming out.
but I get what you mean- scotch tape over the hole and the compression will blow the tape loose.

John79

Is it possible to remove the timing cover with the head still on? I've always just removed the head to do this job in the past but I really don't feel like breaking the head loose after I just put a new head gasket and new bolts in.

John79

nevermind I got it off by just loosening the oil pan alittle and it popped right off.

abecedarian

so what did you find?

John79

The timing chain was ok it didn't jump a tooth. But I wasn't on TDC even though the crank pulley was aligned with the 0 on the indicator.

John79

I figured out the problem I couldn't find TDC because I was using the crankshaft pulley and somehow it is off. The notch should be pointing at 0 on the indicator but it is around in the 9 o'clock position. I don't know how this happened. But the engine is at TDC now the camshaft gear dot points straight up and the crankshaft gear dot straight down, piston is all the way up I looked in the spark plug hole to check. I just won't be able to set the timing till I figure out what is wrong with this pulley.