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Old 10-13-2011, 02:03 PM   #1
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22RE Fresh Rebuild Smokes. Researched and tried everything, what next?

I have been putting this post off until I tested everything I could. I have read all the threads here, and some from Google searches and I have tested everything as per the FSM. I have tried everything else and I need some direction on where to go next.

1988 4Runner with 22RE that was just rebuilt at Autospecengines.com here in Phoenix. I have taken my time to install the long block as per the FSM--I have taken tons of pics an notes along the way and will do a build post once I get it right! It is a 5 speed, 4x4 and engine is stock except for Pacesetter header.

New (used) Toyota block, new casting aftermarket head, new cam, pistons and valves. New Toyota starter, aftermarket TPS, radiator, hoses and belts. Fresh rebuild with Rock gasket kit.

Truck runs great, plenty of power even with 33s. It does not seem to idle high at start up and then kick-down once it has warmed up like it should it also puts out white smoke and sometimes black. I have read that black is running rich and that seems intermitent. At startup truck idles fine and doesn't look like it is smoking, but it smells kinda strong. Once it is warmed up reving the engine will cause a lot of white smoke. Letting off the throttle is when I get black smoke--but only sometimes. The worst smoke is when it has been running/idling for some time and then you take off from a stop, it billows white smoke. And sometimes it smokes bad at a stoplight, other times, just a little.

Every test at the ECU is good. The TPS was off by a few volts, but I have since adjusted that as per the FSM and 4Crawler. All impedence is within range except for finding the open/infinite section of the TPS as per 4Crawler. Mine always has impedence. TPS is new aftermarket.

I just did a compression check... 200psi at all cylinders. Engine was warm and throttle open, and everything was unplugged. Seems high, but all even.

I just found the cold start injector timer switch (brown sensor at front of intake manifold below upper radiator hose) does not measure anything, and the electrical part spins in the metal part--safe to say this is bad and a good part of why I don't have a proper idle. But can this cause smoke?

I also just tested the coil and it is fine from positive to negitive, but from posative to the center (part that goes to distributor) I get nothing. Could the coil be bad even though the truck runs good? And can this cause smoke?

Everything is stock except the header, and the cat is hollow, I have a new one for it but do not want to install it until all my smoking issues are fixed. I do realize this can mess up the readings at the 02 sensor, but can this cause smoke?

So what now? I have put a ton of time and money into this build so it would be right, and in the end all I am getting is headaches--I know many of you know how frustrating this can be. I only have a 30 day pass to get this thing right before I have to smog it.

I want to try a leakdown test next. My only thought is that I have bad valve guides. I requested metal guides 3 times at Autospec but when I got there the head was done and he swore they were metal. Something tells me they aren't but I have no way to know.


Invironmental Self Portrait BB Edit by mortonphotographic, on Flickr
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Old 10-13-2011, 02:06 PM   #2
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Sorry that was so long, but I wanted to get all the facts in there. A couple things I fogrot was that I have driven the truck about 170 miles to try and break in the rings. I also found that the EGR vaccum diaphram filter was solid with carbon, I removed the filter with no change. Other than that the EGR tests out fine as per the FSM. Was thinking about blocking the EGR to see if there was a change.


1988 4Runner build. by mortonphotographic, on Flickr
This is the most recent shot I have of the build on-line. Need to shoot some new stuff and post it.
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Last edited by MortonPhotographic; 10-13-2011 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:07 PM   #3
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Went to Fesler Built and my buddies there helped me narrow it down to 1) head gasket, 2) something in the head like valve guides or 3) the rings. Best case it is the rings that only still need to break in and one of the guy's who works there has a brother who own's a machine shop--he said it really sounds like the rings.

Fingers crossed it just needs to break in more, still going to do a leak-down test though.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:27 PM   #4
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Is it eating coolant or oil? Keep an eye on your fluids and it will give you a better idea. Engines do have to break in, but 'a lot' of smoke of any color is unacceptable.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:33 PM   #5
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Thanks for the reply. Coolent looks good, but I have had to add oil. The oil gets black quick too. I suspect that is the engine breaking in. I have changed oil once already and plan to do it again and use thicker oil. Started with 10W30 Valvoline, went to 10W40. Now to 10W50.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:36 PM   #6
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Stick with the same oil so you can compare how much is burned. Changing weights will throw off the comparison. How much oil do you burn in 1k mi? And how many miles are on that engine?
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:45 PM   #7
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I only have like 170 miles. Within that mileage it ate a half quart. The first time it might have been sucking oil into the engine and filter, using up some. But I filled it after that and the next day, after along drive, it was down again--low enough to register on the dipstick.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:48 PM   #8
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Thats a HUGE amount of oil consumption. Not normal whatsoever. What head did you go with? Build looks clean tho!

And BTW, when you fill oil: Run it for a sec, turn it off, check it, then top it off
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:54 PM   #9
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I recently put an auto spec motor in my brother-in-laws truck. It never smoked like you are describing during the break in. However I stood there and watched them put it together. Some the build are great others are garbage.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:32 PM   #10
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Pismo Joe, I know that's what worries me. Gotta do that leak-down test. And thanks, I have worked really hard on this project which makes it all the more annoying.

Auquaprice, I am coming to that conclusion too. I did a lot of research before I went with them and all of it was good, I really like Phan too--he knows what he is doing. I think his employees is where their variance comes from. Of course I got one of the junkers, that is how my luck has been going.

I also stood there and watched--I took pictures! Everything looked perfect to me. But I have watched several people ruin a job right in front of me without knowing until after the fact (mostly home remodel stuff). I don't trust anyone anymore and with good reason--NO ONE cares about doing a quality job anymore. Just get it done and give me my money.

I have since went back and talked to Phan. He looked at a few things and then told me the white smoke was gas--the truck was running rich. I said black is running rich, not white. He told me that they put methinol and ethinol in the fuel so it can run white. This statement has really shaken my faith in him. I feel he is telling me it is running rich because he knows something was done wrong and he doesn't want me to make him fix it under warranty. Not that I really care--if he can't do it right the first time I won't trust him to fix it, not after how long it takes to put one of these engines together.
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Last edited by MortonPhotographic; 10-14-2011 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:10 PM   #11
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running rich will prevent ring seating from happening properly. they can make up all kinds of excuses. it is like a double opt out for them. cuz even if you can prove it is the rings he would still be able to say it is your fault. sniff the smoke. what does it smell like. OIL, COOLANT, and RICHness.... all smell different... can't argue the way something smells. go sniff your tailpipe...
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:11 PM   #12
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Autospec-9533 by mortonphotographic, on Flickr


Autospec-9534 by mortonphotographic, on Flickr


Autospec-9566 by mortonphotographic, on Flickr


Autospec-9575 by mortonphotographic, on Flickr


My Rebuilt 22RE Long Block by mortonphotographic, on Flickr
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:15 PM   #13
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I will say it is running rich, it even puts out black smoke. That's why I have been trying to fix everything and narrow it down to a specific problem or two. At this point I have tested everything and it all works. I want to narrow it down before I go back and hit him with facts.
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Old 10-14-2011, 06:07 AM   #14
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I don't really see any 30* or any angled crosshatching..? What does it look like to you?

Did you get rebuilt injectors for it?

What rebuild parts were they? Rock?
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New motor .40 over, run 10* timing.Engnbldr RV head-ported, LC Cam
Newer intake t/b swap, Supra afm, intake/batt swap,new oem cap'n'rotor, bpr5egp. NGK oem upgrade wires
ported oem exhaust manifold, 2.25" magnaflow exhaust&cat.

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suspension...maybe 1" up front and 2" in back. It flexes well..a lil bit. =D Clearanced fenders and slightly longer than stock shocks.

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Old 10-14-2011, 07:44 AM   #15
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that hone doesn't look right to me. Maybe its the pics. There is another thread here about rings not seating but if you're running rich, too rich you run the risk of "washing" the cylinder walls. What does the oil look like right now? is it thin and dark?
I would look into the cold start injector and make sure its not leaking and operating as it should.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:49 AM   #16
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I was gonna say, I don't think the pics of the hone do it justice. I remember comenting on how nice it looked when I was there. And when I blow up the raw of this shot you can see the perfect diamond pattern, I would ay 30 degree crosshatch... will put a large crop up and you guys tell me.

Injectors were completely redone by Wichunter.

The oil is thin and dark with I assume fine shavings from the engine. Will the hallow catalytic converter make it run rich because the 02 sensor doesn't get the correct readings?

I have unplugged the coldstart injector and thought I saw less smoke, but then it came back. Not sure what that was all about. I did find that the cold start injector start/stop sensor (temp sensor) is bad so I am going to replace that--could this be making it run rich? I think this is why it doesn't idle high and then kick down.


Autospec-9549-2 by mortonphotographic, on Flickr
Hers is a close up of the crosshatches in my cylinders--click through to Flickr and view it large for more detail.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:42 AM   #17
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Oh, and the rebuild parts were Rock I am pretty sure. I was told he uses stuff from Engnbldr. Just checked the pics, Rock head gasket for sure.
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Old 10-14-2011, 11:03 AM   #18
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"white smoke" - purely white or a blue tinge to it? It matters. White is either coolant or tranny fluid into the engine (with the latter not really possible or your rig). Coolant would suggest something like a cracked head or bad head gasket.

"white smoke with a blue tinge"...especially at start-up...usually means something valve seal related. Something like a valve seal was not installed correctly or a valve is not fit properly into its guide.

I would pull the plugs and look for a single plug that has a grayish soot versus the others. That would be your problem cylinder.

Agree with what others have said regarding the black smoke and rings not seating. Not sure, but it seems you have two separate problems versus one problem having two symptoms.

FWIW, I have an extra cold start injector switch that is intact. The resistance is not correct, but I can't see the cold start injector contributing to any of your problems. Heh - at least mine did not run rich with it installed.

I'm in NW Peoria if you want to drop by and pick it up.

"oil is black and thin" - can you smell fuel?
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:05 PM   #19
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Thanks a bunch for the injector offer--I might take you up ont That! I agree that I have tow seperate problems--or a mix of several!

At start up there is very little smoke--hard to tell if there is any--it is more of a rich smell than smoke. I think the smoke is bluish white. I am confident it is not the coolent as it is fine and I haven't lost any that I am aware of. I get big clouds of smoke when I take off from a light, and sometimes when I am sitting at a light, but not always.

I was looking for wet an oily plugs, I didnt' realize the soot was bad--3 are that way, check 'em out.


SparkPlugs-4801 by mortonphotographic, on Flickr


SparkPlugs-4802 by mortonphotographic, on Flickr


SparkPlugs-4803 by mortonphotographic, on Flickr
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:25 PM   #20
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I would show those plugs to the engine shop. I don't know them and am not going to bag on them, but I am thinking there is a problem with the valve seals. You are losing oil, you have white smoke with a blue tinge, and you have soot on the plugs. Tell Phan those three things and see what he says.

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