22RE engine help
06-05-2012, 11:02 AM
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22RE engine help
Hey everyone this problem has me stumped. My friend recently blew his motor that had like 270,000 miles. We just put in a brand new motor. A new 22RE in a 88 4runner. We had all new plugs, wires, dis cap, pretty much everything is brand new now. Now our problem is the initial start. It would start but has an extremely rough idle. We made sure all the sensors where in the right spot, we got a vacum line diagram and got those all placed in the proper spot. Even when we tryed to feed it alittle gas it will not do anything but run really really rough. The idle will not even increase with the pedal pushed. Any help would be very helpful i got till saterday to figure this out. Thanks again. I will be by my ipad all day checking forums for advice.
06-05-2012, 11:16 AM
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We are going to start that here in an hour... Any pointers or anything i should watch put for? This is the first timeing we ever did and is going by the book... And the weird thing is they said the engines timing was already done by the manufacture.... Could there be a difference in the two vehicles the engine was in? The tag says it was only ran for 5 min to test the works of it or sometng like that.
06-05-2012, 11:22 AM
#4
Hmmmm, well, this could be MANY things, really depends on what got connected where, maybe missing vacuum lines, etc.
I've seen guys have this issue and wind up finding;
1. Dizzy off a tooth(not as likely to deny any increase in rpm through throttle... It would just be more rough... So COULD be maybe off a tooth AND a TPS issue/AFM issue)
2. CAM "off"(They can be installed improperly. If so, the dizzy gear will still be telling the Injectors to fire through the Igniter's signal... but the fuel would be mostly unburned.) Not as likely if they've run it for 5 minutes in the shop and determined "It's good to ship".... So hmmmm, would again lead me to think you got something wonky in the 'hook up' portion of putting this back in, ya know?
The more common ones;
3. TPS was soaked with solvent when cleaning out the throttle body
4. Coolant Temp Sensor damaged(Doesn't SOUND like your problem)
5. No fuel pressure(either failing fuel pump or badly clogged filter)
6. Vacuum leaks from hell
7. Did I mention vacuum leaks/hoses not connected?lol(that USUALLY creates a higher idle, but CAN, if too large a leak, cause very rough idle and an 'unmetered air' grelmin that just wont adjust through the TPS/ECU.
* Check for WHITE HOT SPARK at each plug wire/cracks in the plugs, NEW OR NOT, ya know?(Not as likely, but got to rule out the big 4, first/ Fuel/Fire/Compression/Timing)
* Sounds like a TPS issue, considering it wont increase in RPM with throttle. Go to 4crawler.com and do the testing for the TPS/go right to the 'ruling out a TOAST TPS' portion, first. ......... http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml
* Check EVERY vacuum line, including the IACV under/front of the intake/under the throttle body.
* Make sure none of the connectors on the intake side are crossed/plugged in the wrong place. Not likely, but it happens.
* Pull the plugs after trying to run it and check for SOAKED IN FUEL condition
No ability to get throttle to increase idle really seems like a TPS issue. Not sure on the AFMeter.... But I suppose if a portion of that is toast, it could also cause problems. 4Crawler has a section on testing that as well/as does the FSM and Haynes.
I've seen guys have this issue and wind up finding;
1. Dizzy off a tooth(not as likely to deny any increase in rpm through throttle... It would just be more rough... So COULD be maybe off a tooth AND a TPS issue/AFM issue)
2. CAM "off"(They can be installed improperly. If so, the dizzy gear will still be telling the Injectors to fire through the Igniter's signal... but the fuel would be mostly unburned.) Not as likely if they've run it for 5 minutes in the shop and determined "It's good to ship".... So hmmmm, would again lead me to think you got something wonky in the 'hook up' portion of putting this back in, ya know?
The more common ones;
3. TPS was soaked with solvent when cleaning out the throttle body
4. Coolant Temp Sensor damaged(Doesn't SOUND like your problem)
5. No fuel pressure(either failing fuel pump or badly clogged filter)
6. Vacuum leaks from hell
7. Did I mention vacuum leaks/hoses not connected?lol(that USUALLY creates a higher idle, but CAN, if too large a leak, cause very rough idle and an 'unmetered air' grelmin that just wont adjust through the TPS/ECU.
* Check for WHITE HOT SPARK at each plug wire/cracks in the plugs, NEW OR NOT, ya know?(Not as likely, but got to rule out the big 4, first/ Fuel/Fire/Compression/Timing)
* Sounds like a TPS issue, considering it wont increase in RPM with throttle. Go to 4crawler.com and do the testing for the TPS/go right to the 'ruling out a TOAST TPS' portion, first. ......... http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TPS/index.shtml
* Check EVERY vacuum line, including the IACV under/front of the intake/under the throttle body.
* Make sure none of the connectors on the intake side are crossed/plugged in the wrong place. Not likely, but it happens.
* Pull the plugs after trying to run it and check for SOAKED IN FUEL condition
No ability to get throttle to increase idle really seems like a TPS issue. Not sure on the AFMeter.... But I suppose if a portion of that is toast, it could also cause problems. 4Crawler has a section on testing that as well/as does the FSM and Haynes.
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 06-05-2012 at 11:24 AM.
06-05-2012, 11:34 AM
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I forgot to mention the other peice of information that might help... Its not a high or normal idle... Its a very low rough idle and it stalls after like a min and then press on the gas it picks up a very little bit and then release the gas again and it stalls
06-05-2012, 11:49 AM
#6
Check all the above that I posted, primarily the "TIMING" portions, as Wabbit suggested, like "Distributor off a couple teeth or worse", maybe might even have to pull the valve cover and check the CAM gear mark at TDC on compression stroke to be sure it's even adjustable(making sure they didn't do the chain wrong)... That's not likely, and I doubt they would find it running like crap and then ship it off... So I would only be guessing, but would say it's more likely that something you did installing the parts you had was wrong or maybe a part was bad, like the TPS? AFM?
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06-05-2012, 12:16 PM
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So i just finished going through my motor and was having a similar issue very rough idle. one thing i did was pull one plug at a time to see which plug was missing. this may not be the best for the engine but it helped me find that #2 was not getting fuel. upon further research I found that the wiring harness down by the intake where Toyota had spliced a bunch of the intector wires, was all corroded. when i had taken the motor out and done some other things in the bay I had broken some of the very corroded splices and so no fuel was getting to #2 creating a very rough idle. Another thing is that if you are off on tooth on the dist. you can just put the engine at tdc on #1 and make sure the rotor is just before the #1 plug. this should set it up pretty close. i had to do this on mine as i was in a rush pulling things apart and forgot to mark it, i just make sure that if i was one tooth to far the rotor was past #1 and went back one tooth from there. hopefully this helps.
06-05-2012, 01:30 PM
#9
Hey Gerlyne,
TPS: (In the link I posted for ya^^^) "Throttle Position Sensor"
AFM: Here's the link for that with the same guy "Air Flow Meter" ... http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AFM/index.shtml
What motox711, above, said is true... But I would add this; The Distributor has a notch in the gear that meets with the CAM/Distributor Drive Gear. When you pull the Valve Cover, then turn the motor to TDC on compression stroke, you want the NOTCH in the top of the Distributor Gear to be RIGHT BEFORE touching the CAM's-Distributor Drive Gear.
Not to be insulting, as I'VE BEEN THERE, .... but you sound like you're just learning this motor.... And unless you want to read up pretty well to figure out exactly how to verify/rule things out in a good Process Of Elimination.... You might want to just take it in to a shop and have them troubleshoot it for ya. With a newly rebuilt motor, the last thing you want to do is 'break it in' improperly, Gerlyne, ya know? (I'm assuming it's a new CAM, Valves, Crank was polished, new Bearings, etc., etc.... ????)
Could be something as simple as "TPS is fried"... But it could be something more serious that could lead to some drama, like; Timing Chain Improperly installed/or otherwise mechanical issues that would NO DOUBT require you to tear it back down, ya know? That's why I suggest taking it in, just to locate the trouble zone. IF NOT, and you're content to fish through and locate the gremlin giving you problems... First thing you need to do is download the FSM(factory service manual)... I happen to have an 88 FSM in my signature, just below every post I make, in blue, very bottom. >>>>>
First thing I would do, considering this might be, indeed, a 'brand new motor', is STOP TURNING IT OVER. Pull the valve cover, first thing, and get it to TDC on Compression stroke(that's all in the FSM and even in this link.... http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/EngineMods/index.shtml ) . Once you know, by the mark on the Crank being on the "0" Mark....Make sure the CAM Knob that protrudes through the GEAR is at 12'o'clock. There is also a dimple in the CAM gear that will be at 11:59, just a TEENY bit left of the knob from the cam that is protruding through the CAM gear. NOW: You can look at the Distributor drive gear for that notch....., making sure it's JUST counterclockwise of mating with the CAM's-distributor drive gear.
It might not be likely.... but I would be more worried about improper assembly than I would a failed sensor or improperly connected/not connected/ sensor or whatever.
Obviously the AFM is connected..... or you would have NO starting let alone running(AFM especially, as when it's disconnected, you will NOT get fuel from the fuel pump to the rail). The TPS can be disconnected and still run... It just wont go into the loop where the sensors are all doing their jobs and relaying/controlling how it runs through the engine Computer(ECU). I mean, you COULD just start testing every sensor and the AFM and TPS... but you're asking what they are... So I would start with MAKING SURE the timing is right on, mechanical and otherwise.
Does this motor have a warranty? What I mean is, if you take it in, to a reputable shop, and they say, "this thing is FUBAR, it's assembled wrong".... Could you get your money back or exchange it for another motor? ANDDDDDDDD, important; Did you get a COMPLETE, totally ready to run motor? Or did you install many of the sensors, and more importantly... did you install the DISTRIBUTOR?
TPS: (In the link I posted for ya^^^) "Throttle Position Sensor"
AFM: Here's the link for that with the same guy "Air Flow Meter" ... http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AFM/index.shtml
What motox711, above, said is true... But I would add this; The Distributor has a notch in the gear that meets with the CAM/Distributor Drive Gear. When you pull the Valve Cover, then turn the motor to TDC on compression stroke, you want the NOTCH in the top of the Distributor Gear to be RIGHT BEFORE touching the CAM's-Distributor Drive Gear.
Not to be insulting, as I'VE BEEN THERE, .... but you sound like you're just learning this motor.... And unless you want to read up pretty well to figure out exactly how to verify/rule things out in a good Process Of Elimination.... You might want to just take it in to a shop and have them troubleshoot it for ya. With a newly rebuilt motor, the last thing you want to do is 'break it in' improperly, Gerlyne, ya know? (I'm assuming it's a new CAM, Valves, Crank was polished, new Bearings, etc., etc.... ????)
Could be something as simple as "TPS is fried"... But it could be something more serious that could lead to some drama, like; Timing Chain Improperly installed/or otherwise mechanical issues that would NO DOUBT require you to tear it back down, ya know? That's why I suggest taking it in, just to locate the trouble zone. IF NOT, and you're content to fish through and locate the gremlin giving you problems... First thing you need to do is download the FSM(factory service manual)... I happen to have an 88 FSM in my signature, just below every post I make, in blue, very bottom. >>>>>
First thing I would do, considering this might be, indeed, a 'brand new motor', is STOP TURNING IT OVER. Pull the valve cover, first thing, and get it to TDC on Compression stroke(that's all in the FSM and even in this link.... http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/EngineMods/index.shtml ) . Once you know, by the mark on the Crank being on the "0" Mark....Make sure the CAM Knob that protrudes through the GEAR is at 12'o'clock. There is also a dimple in the CAM gear that will be at 11:59, just a TEENY bit left of the knob from the cam that is protruding through the CAM gear. NOW: You can look at the Distributor drive gear for that notch....., making sure it's JUST counterclockwise of mating with the CAM's-distributor drive gear.
It might not be likely.... but I would be more worried about improper assembly than I would a failed sensor or improperly connected/not connected/ sensor or whatever.
Obviously the AFM is connected..... or you would have NO starting let alone running(AFM especially, as when it's disconnected, you will NOT get fuel from the fuel pump to the rail). The TPS can be disconnected and still run... It just wont go into the loop where the sensors are all doing their jobs and relaying/controlling how it runs through the engine Computer(ECU). I mean, you COULD just start testing every sensor and the AFM and TPS... but you're asking what they are... So I would start with MAKING SURE the timing is right on, mechanical and otherwise.
Does this motor have a warranty? What I mean is, if you take it in, to a reputable shop, and they say, "this thing is FUBAR, it's assembled wrong".... Could you get your money back or exchange it for another motor? ANDDDDDDDD, important; Did you get a COMPLETE, totally ready to run motor? Or did you install many of the sensors, and more importantly... did you install the DISTRIBUTOR?
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 06-05-2012 at 01:41 PM.
06-05-2012, 01:40 PM
#10
And YES, AS MOTOX SAID, .... "As you pull the hoses to pull the valve cover, etc., MARK EVERYTHING", lol. I can do it now in my sleep, just a couple years into learning about them(and I still have PLENTY to learn about a few things, trust me! lol)... But the first time I did it? I photo'd and tape marked EVERYTHING with numbers, lol. It seemed like spaghetti soup to me, lol.... Now it's all familiar... It's just that, well, familiar or not, WEIRD things happen in these old goats! lol
06-05-2012, 03:13 PM
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First if all i want to thank everyone for the fast response and very helpful information... We got the timing set and done the engine runs.... But now we snagged into another problem... I wont idle and we getting a loud squeeling nose and gets louder when gas is applied... Its not the belt but comeing around somewhere near the EFI
06-05-2012, 05:30 PM
#12
"Somewhere near the EFI", as in, ....near the INTAKE where it says "EFI" up there? Hmmmmm, ... I've had a thermostat half open make a weird noise once.. But the squealing I had more often came from either the idler pulley, or water pump or alternator.
OOOOOOOOH, wait, ..... check to see if you reversed the AC-VSV or Fuel Pressure Regulator-VSV vacuum hoses... When I did that on my AC-VSV, it warns you that it's BACKWARD with a 'WHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE' kinda hissing/whining sound from the basket/filter portion on the end. Check the routing on those to be sure, for the AC-VSV (IF YOU HAVE AC that is! lol....(and double check the routing to the FPR-VSV as well.)
Hmmm, still, seeing that it wont idle(you mean if you let off the gas, it stalls?)... that's sounding like something else, or at least in addition to the squealing, which could be unrelated?
I've had a bad PCV make some noise.... And 2 times when breaking in a new motor I had the breather hose on the front of the valve cover BLOW OFF after hissing a lil bit, lol. Doesn't sound like your issue though.
It would REALLY help to have a video with audio, ya know? Maybe do some pics of all the routing of the vacuum lines that you've installed? Wont stay idling..... Still sounds like timing or TPS or LARGE vacuum leak after the AFM.... something like that.
OOOOOOOOH, wait, ..... check to see if you reversed the AC-VSV or Fuel Pressure Regulator-VSV vacuum hoses... When I did that on my AC-VSV, it warns you that it's BACKWARD with a 'WHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE' kinda hissing/whining sound from the basket/filter portion on the end. Check the routing on those to be sure, for the AC-VSV (IF YOU HAVE AC that is! lol....(and double check the routing to the FPR-VSV as well.)
Hmmm, still, seeing that it wont idle(you mean if you let off the gas, it stalls?)... that's sounding like something else, or at least in addition to the squealing, which could be unrelated?
I've had a bad PCV make some noise.... And 2 times when breaking in a new motor I had the breather hose on the front of the valve cover BLOW OFF after hissing a lil bit, lol. Doesn't sound like your issue though.
It would REALLY help to have a video with audio, ya know? Maybe do some pics of all the routing of the vacuum lines that you've installed? Wont stay idling..... Still sounds like timing or TPS or LARGE vacuum leak after the AFM.... something like that.
06-05-2012, 05:40 PM
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Yup its the weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee noise no hissing i do have a video with audio but im not at home or with computer... I can probably email the video if need be... And it idles just fine now...
06-06-2012, 12:29 AM
#14
First if all i want to thank everyone for the fast response and very helpful information... We got the timing set and done the engine runs.... But now we snagged into another problem...
I wont idle
.....and we getting a loud squeeling nose and gets louder when gas is applied... Its not the belt but comeing around somewhere near the EFI
I wont idle
.....and we getting a loud squeeling nose and gets louder when gas is applied... Its not the belt but comeing around somewhere near the EFI
06-06-2012, 05:05 PM
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Sorry it took awhile i had problems with the video but heres the link to the video with audio of the weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee noise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJHLc...e_gdata_player
06-06-2012, 05:19 PM
#17
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how tight are those acorn nuts holding the valve cover down? I would start there. I don't recall the spec, but it's inch/lbs.
06-06-2012, 05:24 PM
#18
That is a TERRIBLE 'WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE', indeed! lol... That'd drive me to punching something, no doubt, haha.
Very hard to tell where it's coming from in a video.. But have to take your word for it that it's "THE INTAKE AREA", right?
You're SUREEEEEEE that's not the VSV on the valve cover? I'll watch it again a couple times, later, when I get home again..... I can see MUCH of it long enough to see lots of the vacuum is where it's supposed to be. Just need to watch again, as I said. WEIRD!
On that VSV on the valve cover, switch those 2 vacuum lines and see if it stops.... That's VERY similar to when I had my AC VSV and maybe my FPR VSV lines reversed. It REALLY 'wheee'd on me, lol. You know what I mean, lol.
EGR lines hooked up wrong? I can't say off hand. Be back later tonight to try and listen again/pause it so I can see all the hook ups.
You went off the diagram on the hood?????
Very hard to tell where it's coming from in a video.. But have to take your word for it that it's "THE INTAKE AREA", right?
You're SUREEEEEEE that's not the VSV on the valve cover? I'll watch it again a couple times, later, when I get home again..... I can see MUCH of it long enough to see lots of the vacuum is where it's supposed to be. Just need to watch again, as I said. WEIRD!
On that VSV on the valve cover, switch those 2 vacuum lines and see if it stops.... That's VERY similar to when I had my AC VSV and maybe my FPR VSV lines reversed. It REALLY 'wheee'd on me, lol. You know what I mean, lol.
EGR lines hooked up wrong? I can't say off hand. Be back later tonight to try and listen again/pause it so I can see all the hook ups.
You went off the diagram on the hood?????
08-11-2012, 10:24 AM
#20
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What is the verdict here? I am building an engine at this time and I am gathering all the information that I can. I do hope that I do not arrive at this problem, but in the event that I do I want to be able to remedy it. Please update so that we can know. Best of luck to you I hope this is resolved.
