lukeman970

What are the main differences between the older 22R motors and the newer V6 motors in models around 1993 other than the obvious? Are either of the two engines more prone to problems? I'm going to be buying a 4runner soon and would like to know the differences. thanks.

dcg9381

Rough overview:
Sometime in 1985, toyota went from a 22R to a 22RE. The 22RE is fuel injected. The motors are almost identical otherwise and most parts will interchange, with the exception of heads and pistons. There is a slight performance and mileage advantage of the 22RE (EFI) version over the 22R carb version.

Note there are carb'd 22R toyotas that are newer than 1985. These are usally the stripped down base model pickups (2wd).

In 1988 Toyota came out with a 3.0L V6. They continued to offer the 2.4L 22RE. The 3.0L has a power and torque advantage over the 22RE that you can feel, but the 3.0L is a less efficient engine in terms of mileage. It also suffered from head gasket failures which resolved under a massive recall.

There is always a debate on the 3.0L motor, but I can tell you that it's expensive to modify, fairly difficult to work on, and requires more frequent major maintainence (mainly a timing belt). It's absolutely not a bad or unreliable motor, but it's simply not as inexpensive to repair as the 22RE.

Both the 3.0L and 2.4L 22RE were manufactured until sometime 1994 or 1995.
Toyota went to a 3.4L 4-valve motor (big improvement in both power and fuel economy). The 4 cylinder series went to a 4-valve 2.4L and 2.7L motor.
If you're buying 1994-1997 year trucks, the 3.4L motor is recommended.

Toy-SkiTzo

tc

the above post is great - here's my $0.02

In the grand scheme of things, they are both reliable motors. The 22R/22RE is about as bulletproof as they come. The 3VZE can be prone to headgasket issues, but it is not uncommon for people to get 200k or 300k miles out of them.

The 22R/22RE has HUGE aftermarket support. It can EASILY be built to make as much or more power than a stock V6 and will still get better gas mileage. The trannies behind them are not the strongest, but they will suffice. They have gear driven transfer cases that are strong and easily modified.

The 3VZE has almost no aftermarket support. It is a smooth running engine with (IMHO) a pretty flat torque curve, but that's all it will ever be. It is quite thirsty. It takes up EVERY last square inch under the hood. The trannies behind them are some of the strongest Toyota ever made. They have chain drive cases that are plenty strong, but unmodifiable.

The newer motors (2.7L 3RZFE and 3.4L 5VZFE) are a HUGE step up over their predecessors. Both easily produce more horsepower while getting better fuel economy than their predecessors. Both have factory superchargers available.

If I knew what I know now, which engine would not be high on my priority list when evaluating vehicles, though. I would absolutely get a manual transmission. Not that the auto is unreliable, but its huge overdrive is just VERY poorly matched to the motors available. The auto will cost you about 20% in fuel economy. I would then evaluate the condition of the vehicle vs the cost, and then if there were still some that were equal, I would look at which one had which motor (and probably select the 22RE).

nix4x4

Well, the choice comes down to slow or slower. Neither of them are performance-machines, but since you're buying a 4Runner and not a Supra I guess you can live with that. The bottom line here is that both motors will go 250k miles at LEAST. From what I've seen, it takes a little more money to get the 3.0 to that point than with the 22R-E, so its just a matter of is that extra power worth the extra gas, fixes, etc...???? If you want my opinion, both engines are awesome, but I love my 3.0 don't care what anyone else says about em they're awesome

mehret

I have a 22R in my 87 Pickup, and I have a friend with a 3VZE in his 88 4runner. The power difference is definitely in favor of the 3.0. However, from what I've seen, if maintained properly, the 22R/22RE will create far fewer problems for you down the road. The 3VZE is prone to HG problems due to the cast block and aluminum head. With a 22R, you're going to have to deal with the problems that come with a carbed truck, ie. getting the right air/fuel mixture, flooding, stalling at extreme angles.

Overall though, I would say both are great engines, but I favor the 22R more.

CJM

As I see it unless your wanting a trail truck buy the 22re, the 3.0 is reliable in some cases but more often than not it simply is junk. Unfortunately it is not the 3vz-fe (aka toyota camry V6) that is 100x better.

The 22re will serve you well, get a stick its worth it..

I myself would buy a V6 truck but I am fully prepared to swap to a 22re if it ever gives me major issues.

toyotatom93

Ya all those posts are bang on.

When I first got my 93 pickup w/ 22R-E I was blown away by how gutless it was; mind you I'm used to our 2001 Golf TDI. But once I got her valves adjusted and did a seafoam treatment If feels way better uphills and puts along beutifuly on the trails.

And I find it does have plenty of power, you just have to be in the right rpm range and unfortunatly for the people stuck behind you it seems pretty slow, but you get used to it. They seem like they were meant to be off the road. At any rate I just love my Toyota and would easily buy an other 22R-E vehicle.

87TurboYota

I think this is the first really decent thread I've ever read on the comparison of these two motors. Nobody actually got heated over the comparison. I agree with everyone that has posted.

The 22RE is "bulletproof" and is much easier to work on and less costly to fix than the 3.0 V6. But the V6 has an edge in power and performance. You can't go wrong with either of these motors. And how come nobody has mentioned the 22RET?

MudHippy

Granted that I'd kill for a 3vzfe, my 88 3vze is a humdinger. Best 6 cylinder engine I've owned so far, like it better than my old Buick 3.8L V6 which "outgunned" it in every way. Damn thing was NOT reliable though, tons of trouble. I didn't fully understand reliablity 'till the Toyota.

CJM

Honestly I think after 1990 they started having the major issues.

bigtrucknwheels

here is a little bit of a correction...

88-95 Pickups and 4Runners had the optional 3VZ-E.
85-95 Pickups and 4Runners (mid trims and up) came standard with 22R-E
after 1990, there was no 22R, all came with EFI

My opinion, get the V6, unless you wanna dump a ton of money to achieve a relatively similar Horse Power. Many guys, after dumping a ton of money in the 22R-E, still come up to around 150 Horsepower, (stock rating of the 3VZ-E) and hardly any torque. I personally would go V6 period. Mod support or not. Slap a set of Weasy 2k cams in there and do the MLS headgaskets, bam. Reliable and around 170 HP.

I have owned and driven both, a 22R-E with a manual, and my current rig, a 3VZ-E with an auto, which IMO, is the slowest on earth and i hate autos. if i ever get a chance to do it all over agian, ill get a V6 with a 5 speed. get around 19-20 mpgs stock, cams, around 21-22, compared to a 22r-e, around 23-26.

final thoughts...

if one mods a 22re to be as powerful as a 3vze, it will undoubtedly lose its famed longevity. it wasnt designed to produce that much power, henceforth, shorting its life dramatically. To be honest, even though the 22re goes a long time with no trouble, they need to be ripped down and completely rebuilt (in most cases) long before a 3vze. you wont kick yourself in the butt if you go with either, but youll love yourself more if you get a good V6. just make sure it was taken care of...

stormin94

The main difference is that the 3.0 has POWER.......well, sort of(not really). And the 3.0 likes the gas....

bigtrucknwheels

yeah, it does like the gas. but trucks weren't meant for gas mileage...

CJM

14mpg or less outta most of them in a significantly lighter truck doesnt please me personally. If I wanted that I would grab a ford with a 351 or a chevy 454.

josephah2000

I had the 22 re in my 88 4wd truck. The damn thing was bullet proof and could tow 4000 lbs at highway speeds. I finally sold it at 253,000 miles.

My next truck, a 1998 4wd tacoma 3.4 v6 also had a bullet proof engine. The damn think felt only slightly more powerful than the 22re but the extra difference was well worth it. Pulling a 4000 lbs load was a lot easier.

I just sold my Tacoma today and I will miss the hell out of it. But that's life. I will probably buy another in a couple of years. Who knows?

I don't know if that helped...but I did own both trucks for over 8 years each and never really had any issues with either. It's just ridiculous how damn indestructible those damn engines are.

Tim_Snapple76

i've dumped quite a bit of money in mine. 3.0 auto. it is slow. but, if it is taken care of it will last you a long time. im on 240k miles or so now, idk 240sumthin. 22re is tough, but it just doesnt cut it for me. if you install oversize ss valves, (engbldr) or a good cam (weasy2k), remove the isr, and keep things checked, you'll have a motor last you for a long time. i know for me, it seems like my motor just keeps takin a beatn and it actually wears me out, not it, but me! either are a good choice.

bigtrucknwheels

idk about you, but beating the hell out of my truck i still get 16.5, with 31's and about 50-65% city miles. if i run highway about 50-60% of the tank and take it easy, i can get 18.5ish out of it. grant it, thats def. not good, but its fun to drive, and in the end, i think its *almost* worth it.

and yours is a 96 T100, shouldnt that have the 3.4 anyways? or is it a model year 95 titled as a 96?

CJM

No I have a 3.4L T100 but a friend of mine has a 3.0 slow pick up, 12-14mpg and it doesnt even have 31's on it and its been tuned up.

bigtrucknwheels

thats weird...

either way, id kill to have a t100, with either the 3.0 or the 3.4, preferably the latter... i guess your lucky! lol.