22R running kinda slugish
03-17-2013, 08:44 PM
#1
22R running kinda slugish
As most know I have a 87 pickup I'm running the factory 22r engine with mild upgrades.
For the life of my truck its ran great. Rebuilt factory Aisin carb once and replaced fuel pump once. I'm currently setting on 119,624.1 original miles.
Over the past few years I've not done much to my engine. The only upgrades I've done is header and exhaust. Never even changed the first oil seal or gasket.
For about 2 months now I been leaking oil from the timing cover. About 2 weeks ago it got really bad. So I decided to do some much needed maintenance along with some upgrades.
Here Is a list of what all I done.
Head gasket kit ( complete )
Timing cover gasket kit
Timing chain
Oil pump
New crane cam performance cam
New lifters
Plugs, wires, cap, button
Changed oil and filter
New weber 32/36 dgev
Okay now for my issue
To start off my truck has never had a tick like most 22 series engines until now. I've adjusted my valves at least 10 times in the last week. I've re torqued head, check valve cover nuts. I've done everything I know to do. My valves still chatter annoyingly loud. I have nowhere near as much power as before. I'm constantly downshifting and it seams as fuel mileage has decreased. I've read thread after thread on setting up my weber. I seem to have it correctly. I've doubled checked timing numerous times and its right on. I've even advanced it alittle and still no increase in performance. I've changed fuel filters and still nothing changed. Im de Smogged as I thought that may have been a issue. Im clueless.
Has anyone experienced this problem? Any suggestions or should I just deal with it....
For the life of my truck its ran great. Rebuilt factory Aisin carb once and replaced fuel pump once. I'm currently setting on 119,624.1 original miles.
Over the past few years I've not done much to my engine. The only upgrades I've done is header and exhaust. Never even changed the first oil seal or gasket.
For about 2 months now I been leaking oil from the timing cover. About 2 weeks ago it got really bad. So I decided to do some much needed maintenance along with some upgrades.
Here Is a list of what all I done.
Head gasket kit ( complete )
Timing cover gasket kit
Timing chain
Oil pump
New crane cam performance cam
New lifters
Plugs, wires, cap, button
Changed oil and filter
New weber 32/36 dgev
Okay now for my issue
To start off my truck has never had a tick like most 22 series engines until now. I've adjusted my valves at least 10 times in the last week. I've re torqued head, check valve cover nuts. I've done everything I know to do. My valves still chatter annoyingly loud. I have nowhere near as much power as before. I'm constantly downshifting and it seams as fuel mileage has decreased. I've read thread after thread on setting up my weber. I seem to have it correctly. I've doubled checked timing numerous times and its right on. I've even advanced it alittle and still no increase in performance. I've changed fuel filters and still nothing changed. Im de Smogged as I thought that may have been a issue. Im clueless.
Has anyone experienced this problem? Any suggestions or should I just deal with it....
03-17-2013, 11:24 PM
#2
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First of all, great job on doing all of this work yourself. We have to take care of our 87's =)
I also have a 1987 22r 4x4. In the last two months I've done the HG (timing chain and guides looked perfect and I only have 34k on the engine), both slaves, all fluids - tranny, diffy, oil, coolant flush, re adjusted my valves twice since the top end rebuild and am now looking at a carb rebuild and new exhaust catalytic converter install.
Honestly, I'm getting tired of all this work. I feel like it has to stop at some point right?
Anyway, on to my point. If you've done a compression test, have the timing right and have readjusted your valves. Your engine should be fine. Did you remachine the head and exhaust manifold while you were at it?
I'm gonna hail mary that it's the weber carb. Sorry, but they're crap. Especially with that low mileage oem you have sitting around. Rebuild it and put it back on... then see how she runs =)
I also have a 1987 22r 4x4. In the last two months I've done the HG (timing chain and guides looked perfect and I only have 34k on the engine), both slaves, all fluids - tranny, diffy, oil, coolant flush, re adjusted my valves twice since the top end rebuild and am now looking at a carb rebuild and new exhaust catalytic converter install.
Honestly, I'm getting tired of all this work. I feel like it has to stop at some point right?
Anyway, on to my point. If you've done a compression test, have the timing right and have readjusted your valves. Your engine should be fine. Did you remachine the head and exhaust manifold while you were at it?
I'm gonna hail mary that it's the weber carb. Sorry, but they're crap. Especially with that low mileage oem you have sitting around. Rebuild it and put it back on... then see how she runs =)
03-18-2013, 09:04 AM
#3
First of all, great job on doing all of this work yourself. We have to take care of our 87's =)
I also have a 1987 22r 4x4. In the last two months I've done the HG (timing chain and guides looked perfect and I only have 34k on the engine), both slaves, all fluids - tranny, diffy, oil, coolant flush, re adjusted my valves twice since the top end rebuild and am now looking at a carb rebuild and new exhaust catalytic converter install.
Honestly, I'm getting tired of all this work. I feel like it has to stop at some point right?
Anyway, on to my point. If you've done a compression test, have the timing right and have readjusted your valves. Your engine should be fine. Did you remachine the head and exhaust manifold while you were at it?
I'm gonna hail mary that it's the weber carb. Sorry, but they're crap. Especially with that low mileage oem you have sitting around. Rebuild it and put it back on... then see how she runs =)
I also have a 1987 22r 4x4. In the last two months I've done the HG (timing chain and guides looked perfect and I only have 34k on the engine), both slaves, all fluids - tranny, diffy, oil, coolant flush, re adjusted my valves twice since the top end rebuild and am now looking at a carb rebuild and new exhaust catalytic converter install.
Honestly, I'm getting tired of all this work. I feel like it has to stop at some point right?
Anyway, on to my point. If you've done a compression test, have the timing right and have readjusted your valves. Your engine should be fine. Did you remachine the head and exhaust manifold while you were at it?
I'm gonna hail mary that it's the weber carb. Sorry, but they're crap. Especially with that low mileage oem you have sitting around. Rebuild it and put it back on... then see how she runs =)
03-18-2013, 09:10 AM
#4
Registered User
You have to do a compression check. If its good in all cylinders you can rule out many major possible issues and then move onto the carb, igniter, dizzy etc.
03-18-2013, 10:38 AM
#5
Registered User
+1 on the compression test to rule out internal issues.
As far as the valve clatter, you said you replcaed the cam with a Crane cam. This is most likely the culprit. Performance cams have taller wider lobes to open the valves further longer. The trade off is usually steeper inclines leading up to and trailing from the lobe, which results in the valves slamming shut on the way down.
Also you mentioned that you replaced the lifters... I'm guessing you meant the rockers. What all did you replcace? Did you just replace the rocker arms? Did you swap the rails too? If not, what did the rails look like? Were they worn? Any excess play in the valve train will amplify the clatter. Same with the valve cover. If you didn't replace the valve cover gasket and grommets and properly torque them (to only 7 ft/lbs!!!) again it will amplify the valve noise.
For lack of performance, if the carbs don't end up being the issue, some cam set-ups like to run a bit advanced. You might end up running 2-4* ahead of what the manual says depending on what the motor likes. Does your '87 have an electric/mechanical/vaccuum advance? Did you take in to account for the advance? A lot of guys running 22re's run into performance issues from bad timing if they don't properly short the ECU when setting timing.
As far as the valve clatter, you said you replcaed the cam with a Crane cam. This is most likely the culprit. Performance cams have taller wider lobes to open the valves further longer. The trade off is usually steeper inclines leading up to and trailing from the lobe, which results in the valves slamming shut on the way down.
Also you mentioned that you replaced the lifters... I'm guessing you meant the rockers. What all did you replcace? Did you just replace the rocker arms? Did you swap the rails too? If not, what did the rails look like? Were they worn? Any excess play in the valve train will amplify the clatter. Same with the valve cover. If you didn't replace the valve cover gasket and grommets and properly torque them (to only 7 ft/lbs!!!) again it will amplify the valve noise.
For lack of performance, if the carbs don't end up being the issue, some cam set-ups like to run a bit advanced. You might end up running 2-4* ahead of what the manual says depending on what the motor likes. Does your '87 have an electric/mechanical/vaccuum advance? Did you take in to account for the advance? A lot of guys running 22re's run into performance issues from bad timing if they don't properly short the ECU when setting timing.
03-18-2013, 11:08 AM
#6
Registered User
if worse comes to worse theres this...
http://www.carb-x.com/foreign-carbur...ine/22r/43-064
http://www.carb-x.com/foreign-carbur...ine/22r/43-064
03-18-2013, 06:19 PM
#7
+1 on the compression test to rule out internal issues.
As far as the valve clatter, you said you replcaed the cam with a Crane cam. This is most likely the culprit. Performance cams have taller wider lobes to open the valves further longer. The trade off is usually steeper inclines leading up to and trailing from the lobe, which results in the valves slamming shut on the way down.
Also you mentioned that you replaced the lifters... I'm guessing you meant the rockers. What all did you replcace? Did you just replace the rocker arms? Did you swap the rails too? If not, what did the rails look like? Were they worn? Any excess play in the valve train will amplify the clatter. Same with the valve cover. If you didn't replace the valve cover gasket and grommets and properly torque them (to only 7 ft/lbs!!!) again it will amplify the valve noise.
For lack of performance, if the carbs don't end up being the issue, some cam set-ups like to run a bit advanced. You might end up running 2-4* ahead of what the manual says depending on what the motor likes. Does your '87 have an electric/mechanical/vaccuum advance? Did you take in to account for the advance? A lot of guys running 22re's run into performance issues from bad timing if they don't properly short the ECU when setting timing.
As far as the valve clatter, you said you replcaed the cam with a Crane cam. This is most likely the culprit. Performance cams have taller wider lobes to open the valves further longer. The trade off is usually steeper inclines leading up to and trailing from the lobe, which results in the valves slamming shut on the way down.
Also you mentioned that you replaced the lifters... I'm guessing you meant the rockers. What all did you replcace? Did you just replace the rocker arms? Did you swap the rails too? If not, what did the rails look like? Were they worn? Any excess play in the valve train will amplify the clatter. Same with the valve cover. If you didn't replace the valve cover gasket and grommets and properly torque them (to only 7 ft/lbs!!!) again it will amplify the valve noise.
For lack of performance, if the carbs don't end up being the issue, some cam set-ups like to run a bit advanced. You might end up running 2-4* ahead of what the manual says depending on what the motor likes. Does your '87 have an electric/mechanical/vaccuum advance? Did you take in to account for the advance? A lot of guys running 22re's run into performance issues from bad timing if they don't properly short the ECU when setting timing.
Yes I do have vacuum advance and according to other threads its hooked up correctly.
Valve covered is torque according to Haynes manual as well as head and everything else.
I did contact the cam dealer today and valve slap is 100% normal on my setup
it's annoying....I done some more researching on my engine today and I believe I have a vacuum leak in between those damn adapter plates that came with carb... Ima tear it down tomorrow add some sealant till my spiral adapter comes in and see if that helps....
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03-18-2013, 06:39 PM
#8
Registered User
Have you checked your vacuum advance? If you have one of those mighty-mite brake bleeders, you can apply vacuum while using the timing light to see if your mark advances. Likewise you can connect the line to the gauge and see if the motor is creating enough vacuum.
03-18-2013, 08:53 PM
#9
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I am at a similar point same mods however I have about 200k. The noise is not going away with the cam. If it goes away something's gone bad. My guess is that it's a carb/timing combo being off a little causing your issues.
03-18-2013, 09:18 PM
#10
Vacuum advance appears to be working when adding suction to it.
Carb........ Ehh don't even wanna talk about it lol. That will come tomorrow I guess as its 1:17 am here lol I'm going to bed. Nite guys and thanks
03-18-2013, 09:26 PM
#11
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I know 100% that timing is correct as far as disturber, cam, and crank... Those have been checked numerous times. According to crane cams my new cam is NOT suppose to be degreed. So it times just like the factory setup. So that eliminates that.
Vacuum advance appears to be working when adding suction to it.
Carb........ Ehh don't even wanna talk about it lol. That will come tomorrow I guess as its 1:17 am here lol I'm going to bed. Nite guys and thanks
Vacuum advance appears to be working when adding suction to it.
Carb........ Ehh don't even wanna talk about it lol. That will come tomorrow I guess as its 1:17 am here lol I'm going to bed. Nite guys and thanks
what i meant by timing is maybe stock isnt a good set up with the mods you have, like stated above maybe playing with a few degrees at a time will help and as far as carbs i know they get to ya. i need to rebuild mine when it warms up here in MN.
03-19-2013, 04:18 AM
#13
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cam clearances?
Some came require that the valve lash change. My engnbldr 268 cam is. 07 and. 09. I first did the. 08 and. 12 and it ticked and ran like crap. Chceck the paperwork that came with it.
03-19-2013, 04:23 AM
#14
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ocker arms
It could also be the rocker arms are worn funny so that u are not getting a correct valve lash. Maybe take them to a machine shop. I still say call the cam place or look at the paperwork that came with the cam to see if the lash is differently. Also I'm assuming u did the adjustment hot bc doing it cold after a rebuild doesn't seem to work great.
03-20-2013, 01:25 PM
#15
Okay no more valve noise 
..... I went ahead and removed my cam and replaced the cam and complete rocker assembly with a donor set that I had from another 22R engine. So I'm back to normal with the noise...
HOWEVER........
I'm still running like ˟˟˟˟. My engines revs up awesomely. It idles perfect. However when I drive it I quit performing at about 3500 to 4000 RPMs same problem I had before. This has to be a weber issue. I can hold my truck flat to the floor in 3rd gear and can't hardly hit 60 mph. Once I shift to fourth it pics right on up until I hit that same RPM.
Could this be that the jets are to small not allowing enough fuel?
Could it be too much fuel. I do not think its too much fuel as I do not smoke and I idle perfect at 800 RPM's. there's no hesitation.
So what's next guys? Throw something at me ASAP I'm trying to get back to normal with this thing. My job requires alot of traveling across the state pulling a trailor. Right now I do good to pull myself. Well at least doing the speed limit ya know
..... I went ahead and removed my cam and replaced the cam and complete rocker assembly with a donor set that I had from another 22R engine. So I'm back to normal with the noise...HOWEVER........
I'm still running like ˟˟˟˟. My engines revs up awesomely. It idles perfect. However when I drive it I quit performing at about 3500 to 4000 RPMs same problem I had before. This has to be a weber issue. I can hold my truck flat to the floor in 3rd gear and can't hardly hit 60 mph. Once I shift to fourth it pics right on up until I hit that same RPM.
Could this be that the jets are to small not allowing enough fuel?
Could it be too much fuel. I do not think its too much fuel as I do not smoke and I idle perfect at 800 RPM's. there's no hesitation.
So what's next guys? Throw something at me ASAP I'm trying to get back to normal with this thing. My job requires alot of traveling across the state pulling a trailor. Right now I do good to pull myself. Well at least doing the speed limit ya know
03-20-2013, 01:50 PM
#16
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So I have the same cam. I didn't notice those instructions. You've had no issues with those settings?
