1994 pickup 3vze engine rattle? pinging? Surging?
09-28-2013, 08:02 PM
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1994 pickup 3vze engine rattle? pinging? Surging?
I got a 3vze pickup and got a few issues. Once warmed up a little, at 2500ish rpm, sometimes 2225 rpm, the enine has a rattle that goes on at cruising throttle position like 25%. It sounds like it goes away if I get on the gas but im not sure if the engine and exhaust and wind and such covers the rattle up. I can get it to continuously do it at idle and have listened and I think ive narrowed it down to the passenger side rear of the engine.
Ive got the timing set to 12 degrees ( it did the rattle at 10 degrees too), ive got egr removed for a few months and the noise hasnt always been there but has come since then, I did put 5w30 oil in for a while cause I didnt realize until next oil change that 10w30 was in this truck and 5w30 in my dads t100 3.4. I changed my o2 sensor and that didnt change anything. Ive got a isr intake Ive made myself no air leaks that ive found. Newer plugs,cap, distributor, and wires.
Could it be spark knock(pinging) from a possible air, vacuum leak, or other air/fuel problem like running lean but not enough to set any codes? I have no codes now.
My idle seems to surge maybe 100 rpm up and down and it will idle high at 1000 rpm for a long time after warming up and then randomly drop to 800 which I had it set at one point. Then sometimes it goes back up to 1000 for a while.
And lastly, my engine temp gauge fluctuates pretty bad according to how and when im driving it. At 70 mph it will be dead center of the gauge, cruising around town it might make it to 25% of the gauge even after a half hour, and at 55 mph its between 25% and halfway.
Coolant temp sensor or thermostat going bad or wrong one?
Sorry for the long post but didnt wanna forget anything major. If you can enlighten me on any of my problems and help me tbat would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Travis.
Ive got the timing set to 12 degrees ( it did the rattle at 10 degrees too), ive got egr removed for a few months and the noise hasnt always been there but has come since then, I did put 5w30 oil in for a while cause I didnt realize until next oil change that 10w30 was in this truck and 5w30 in my dads t100 3.4. I changed my o2 sensor and that didnt change anything. Ive got a isr intake Ive made myself no air leaks that ive found. Newer plugs,cap, distributor, and wires.
Could it be spark knock(pinging) from a possible air, vacuum leak, or other air/fuel problem like running lean but not enough to set any codes? I have no codes now.
My idle seems to surge maybe 100 rpm up and down and it will idle high at 1000 rpm for a long time after warming up and then randomly drop to 800 which I had it set at one point. Then sometimes it goes back up to 1000 for a while.
And lastly, my engine temp gauge fluctuates pretty bad according to how and when im driving it. At 70 mph it will be dead center of the gauge, cruising around town it might make it to 25% of the gauge even after a half hour, and at 55 mph its between 25% and halfway.
Coolant temp sensor or thermostat going bad or wrong one?
Sorry for the long post but didnt wanna forget anything major. If you can enlighten me on any of my problems and help me tbat would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Travis.
09-29-2013, 07:41 PM
#4
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Engine knock/detonation knock should throw codes, or you can check out youtube for examples: http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...y=engine+knock
Valve chatter is fairly usual. More of clack clack. Like tapping on a heavier aluminum, like a camping/backpacking cookware set.
Odds are your 3vze has never had valves adjusted, and it needs it done and will also improve performance. But it's at least a $600 job, maybe more. A compression test will tell you if you have a burnt valve, the worst case... Turns it into a head gasket job, at least $1k. And when you price modding your engine out, bite the $2-3k bullet and do a 3.4 conversion ($3.5-$4k if paying someone else to do it) now instead of sinking more $ into the 3vze.
Your truck's ECM and it's programmed adjustments expect for there to be both PAIR and EGR components on the engine. Removing the PAIR jacks with your ECM's adjustments based upon what it's seeing at your O2 sensor (PAIR adds fresh oxygen to exhaust to help cat scrub any unburnt fuel), and the EGR affects what your ECM thinks should be incoming from the intake side of things (but has much less negative effects than jacking w/ the PAIR which affects the O2 sensor --that's a primary input for your ECM adjustment of fuel/air ratios)... Removing the PAIR has no positive effect on engine performance, so at a minimum put that back in. I'm not quite sure if removing the PAIR will result in your engine leaning out (causing knocking) or richening (causing excess fuel consumption and burning up your cat). Either way, it's bad news.
Valve chatter is fairly usual. More of clack clack. Like tapping on a heavier aluminum, like a camping/backpacking cookware set.
Odds are your 3vze has never had valves adjusted, and it needs it done and will also improve performance. But it's at least a $600 job, maybe more. A compression test will tell you if you have a burnt valve, the worst case... Turns it into a head gasket job, at least $1k. And when you price modding your engine out, bite the $2-3k bullet and do a 3.4 conversion ($3.5-$4k if paying someone else to do it) now instead of sinking more $ into the 3vze.
Your truck's ECM and it's programmed adjustments expect for there to be both PAIR and EGR components on the engine. Removing the PAIR jacks with your ECM's adjustments based upon what it's seeing at your O2 sensor (PAIR adds fresh oxygen to exhaust to help cat scrub any unburnt fuel), and the EGR affects what your ECM thinks should be incoming from the intake side of things (but has much less negative effects than jacking w/ the PAIR which affects the O2 sensor --that's a primary input for your ECM adjustment of fuel/air ratios)... Removing the PAIR has no positive effect on engine performance, so at a minimum put that back in. I'm not quite sure if removing the PAIR will result in your engine leaning out (causing knocking) or richening (causing excess fuel consumption and burning up your cat). Either way, it's bad news.
Last edited by RSR; 09-29-2013 at 07:46 PM.
09-30-2013, 10:13 AM
#5
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The PAIR and EGR valves are emission control systems that reduce Nox, HC and O2. If you don't have smog restrictions you can take them off but you're contributing to global warming 
1. How does the engine idle? You said it jumps around a bit but how does the engine feel/act?
a. The PAIR valve is only used during deceleration and when the engine is cold and can be modified/remove without any ill effects besides emissions. However the EGR valve runs when the engine is warm, which could fit with your issue. However if it is removed completely there would be little to no impact, since all it does is recycle exhaust gases. It does have a gas temp sensor in the valve but unsure if that effects any other systems or the ECU.
b. However, if you notice your engine vibrating or shaking back and forth at idle (800 RPM) or any backfire, that's your valves out of spec. They need to be adjusted, which an adjustment alone takes a few days of solid work and about $100 in gaskets and tools.
c. If the sound is like what was described above, and just gets faster/louder as you accelerate there's more more serious damage, a valve job will require removing the cylinder heads and that's more like the $600 job and your truck will be out of commission for a while.
2. In regards to temperature, there are 3 components that might effect this. The first would be your thermostat in the lower radiator hose on the engine block: perhaps it is stuck open, the wrong temperature range, or maybe you don't even have one in at all! The second would be the Engine Coolant Temperature Sender, it's on the back of the engine and sends the temp reading to your gauge on the dash. It might be going bad, it's the smallest sensor located on the back of the engine. The third culprit could be your Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) that sends the data to the ECU. Not likely, but possible. You can check these per the FSM: http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...sm/engine.html.
3. About detonation/spark knock. It sometimes throws codes, sometimes not. If your knock sensor is working fine it won't throw a check engine light unless it is so bad that it can not retard the timing any more. I tried advancing the timing and got a lot of "pinging" with no codes, returning to 10 degrees fixed it. "Pinging" sound like a soft grinding noise, it has no rhythm like valve chatter does but rather like someone is just grinding the insides of your engine under light throttle. Seeing that you only get it at about 25% throttle, this might be your issue since it only happens under light loads.
You can google "engine pinging" for more science behind it but it's normally caused by 1. over-advanced timing (on 3VZE, setting timing higher than 10 degrees), 2. a long term lean condition (not enough fuel), or 3. bad carbon deposits that heat up so much that they actually ignite the fuel instead of the spark plug. Seeing that your engine coolant is running cold (if that reading is correct) you can rule out 3, leaving 1 & 2.
I'd recommend as a cheap possible fix running 2 injector cleaners through the gas tank (that also clean the combustion chamber) and running seafoam as directed through the brake booster line. Those will clear up more idle issues then they are given credit for, especially on a high mileage vehicle. If that doesn't clear it up you've got a long road ahead of you since it's hard to diagnose completely.
Basically, you've got several issues. These might be all connected, might not. They might be due to removing your EGR/PAIR valves, might not. Hard to say.
1. How does the engine idle? You said it jumps around a bit but how does the engine feel/act?
a. The PAIR valve is only used during deceleration and when the engine is cold and can be modified/remove without any ill effects besides emissions. However the EGR valve runs when the engine is warm, which could fit with your issue. However if it is removed completely there would be little to no impact, since all it does is recycle exhaust gases. It does have a gas temp sensor in the valve but unsure if that effects any other systems or the ECU.
b. However, if you notice your engine vibrating or shaking back and forth at idle (800 RPM) or any backfire, that's your valves out of spec. They need to be adjusted, which an adjustment alone takes a few days of solid work and about $100 in gaskets and tools.
c. If the sound is like what was described above, and just gets faster/louder as you accelerate there's more more serious damage, a valve job will require removing the cylinder heads and that's more like the $600 job and your truck will be out of commission for a while.
2. In regards to temperature, there are 3 components that might effect this. The first would be your thermostat in the lower radiator hose on the engine block: perhaps it is stuck open, the wrong temperature range, or maybe you don't even have one in at all! The second would be the Engine Coolant Temperature Sender, it's on the back of the engine and sends the temp reading to your gauge on the dash. It might be going bad, it's the smallest sensor located on the back of the engine. The third culprit could be your Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) that sends the data to the ECU. Not likely, but possible. You can check these per the FSM: http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...sm/engine.html.
3. About detonation/spark knock. It sometimes throws codes, sometimes not. If your knock sensor is working fine it won't throw a check engine light unless it is so bad that it can not retard the timing any more. I tried advancing the timing and got a lot of "pinging" with no codes, returning to 10 degrees fixed it. "Pinging" sound like a soft grinding noise, it has no rhythm like valve chatter does but rather like someone is just grinding the insides of your engine under light throttle. Seeing that you only get it at about 25% throttle, this might be your issue since it only happens under light loads.
You can google "engine pinging" for more science behind it but it's normally caused by 1. over-advanced timing (on 3VZE, setting timing higher than 10 degrees), 2. a long term lean condition (not enough fuel), or 3. bad carbon deposits that heat up so much that they actually ignite the fuel instead of the spark plug. Seeing that your engine coolant is running cold (if that reading is correct) you can rule out 3, leaving 1 & 2.
I'd recommend as a cheap possible fix running 2 injector cleaners through the gas tank (that also clean the combustion chamber) and running seafoam as directed through the brake booster line. Those will clear up more idle issues then they are given credit for, especially on a high mileage vehicle. If that doesn't clear it up you've got a long road ahead of you since it's hard to diagnose completely.
Basically, you've got several issues. These might be all connected, might not. They might be due to removing your EGR/PAIR valves, might not. Hard to say.
Last edited by Gamefreakgc; 09-30-2013 at 10:14 AM.
09-30-2013, 12:01 PM
#6
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a. The PAIR valve is only used during deceleration and when the engine is cold and can be modified/remove without any ill effects besides emissions. However the EGR valve runs when the engine is warm, which could fit with your issue. However if it is removed completely there would be little to no impact, since all it does is recycle exhaust gases. It does have a gas temp sensor in the valve but unsure if that effects any other systems or the ECU.
b. However, if you notice your engine vibrating or shaking back and forth at idle (800 RPM) or any backfire, that's your valves out of spec. They need to be adjusted, which an adjustment alone takes a few days of solid work and about $100 in gaskets and tools.
c. If the sound is like what was described above, and just gets faster/louder as you accelerate there's more more serious damage, a valve job will require removing the cylinder heads and that's more like the $600 job and your truck will be out of commission for a while.
[...]
2. In regards to temperature, there are 3 components that might effect this. The first would be your thermostat in the lower radiator hose on the engine block: perhaps it is stuck open, the wrong temperature range, or maybe you don't even have one in at all! The second would be the Engine Coolant Temperature Sender, it's on the back of the engine and sends the temp reading to your gauge on the dash. It might be going bad, it's the smallest sensor located on the back of the engine. The third culprit could be your Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) that sends the data to the ECU. Not likely, but possible. You can check these per the FSM
[...]
I'd recommend as a cheap possible fix running 2 injector cleaners through the gas tank (that also clean the combustion chamber) and running seafoam as directed through the brake booster line.
I don't follow GF's temp talk. You have your thermostat in your engine that allows coolant to circulate once it reaches a certain temp. These should be replaced w/ timing belt, water pump, radiator, etc, at 120k major maintenance. The ECT is on the rear of engine and you really need to remove your plenum to access. It sends to the ECU. And for third I *think* he's referencing the ECU/ECM itself and how it interprets these signals -- GF, please clarify/confirm.
That said, Gamefreak is wrong about seafoam liquid. Seafoam liquid through brake booster only hits the rear 3 intakes -- cylinders 5, 4, and 6 I believe. If you want to hit all 6 cylinders, the only way is spray through the throttle body.
Last edited by RSR; 09-30-2013 at 12:13 PM.
09-30-2013, 04:41 PM
#7
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I don't follow GF's temp talk. You have your thermostat in your engine that allows coolant to circulate once it reaches a certain temp. These should be replaced w/ timing belt, water pump, radiator, etc, at 120k major maintenance. The ECT is on the rear of engine and you really need to remove your plenum to access. It sends to the ECU. And for third I *think* he's referencing the ECU/ECM itself and how it interprets these signals -- GF, please clarify/confirm.
That said, Gamefreak is wrong about seafoam liquid. Seafoam liquid through brake booster only hits the rear 3 intakes -- cylinders 5, 4, and 6 I believe. If you want to hit all 6 cylinders, the only way is spray through the throttle body.
That said, Gamefreak is wrong about seafoam liquid. Seafoam liquid through brake booster only hits the rear 3 intakes -- cylinders 5, 4, and 6 I believe. If you want to hit all 6 cylinders, the only way is spray through the throttle body.
There are two sensors that measure engine coolant temperature, Toyota split them as a fail safe. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about (thanks BMcEL for the photo):
You may not have #1 and #3, these are for Autos. #4 is your Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) that sends a signal to your ECU and #5 is your Engine Coolant Temperature Sender that sends the signal to your dash. #5 would be the one to check to make sure it's working properly. I've not heard of anyone having it go bad, but you never know.
If you're tall and have small hands like me you don't need to remove much except a couple of hoses. I suppose removing the plenum makes it easier but I hate doing it, it's so much work plus you need to replace the gasket every time...
And as far as seafoam goes... I just haven't found a good way to get it in through the throttle body is all. I know that's best, but the aerosol kind that was made for that doesn't work as well. I'd rather have 3-4 very clean cylinders that 6 half-cleaned cylinders, if that makes sense. If there's a way to do it, I'd like to know myself! I'm about to seafoam my truck again soon.
Last edited by Gamefreakgc; 09-30-2013 at 04:43 PM.
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09-30-2013, 09:19 PM
#8
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Some people remove the thermostat due to overheating. Obviously, this will cause issues. It's worth checking if you think the thermostat is the issue, all you have to do is drain the radiator and remove the lower hose.
There are two sensors that measure engine coolant temperature, Toyota split them as a fail safe. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about (thanks BMcEL for the photo):
You may not have #1 and #3, these are for Autos. #4 is your Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) that sends a signal to your ECU and #5 is your Engine Coolant Temperature Sender that sends the signal to your dash. #5 would be the one to check to make sure it's working properly. I've not heard of anyone having it go bad, but you never know.
If you're tall and have small hands like me you don't need to remove much except a couple of hoses. I suppose removing the plenum makes it easier but I hate doing it, it's so much work plus you need to replace the gasket every time...
And as far as seafoam goes... I just haven't found a good way to get it in through the throttle body is all. I know that's best, but the aerosol kind that was made for that doesn't work as well. I'd rather have 3-4 very clean cylinders that 6 half-cleaned cylinders, if that makes sense. If there's a way to do it, I'd like to know myself! I'm about to seafoam my truck again soon.
There are two sensors that measure engine coolant temperature, Toyota split them as a fail safe. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about (thanks BMcEL for the photo):
You may not have #1 and #3, these are for Autos. #4 is your Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) that sends a signal to your ECU and #5 is your Engine Coolant Temperature Sender that sends the signal to your dash. #5 would be the one to check to make sure it's working properly. I've not heard of anyone having it go bad, but you never know.
If you're tall and have small hands like me you don't need to remove much except a couple of hoses. I suppose removing the plenum makes it easier but I hate doing it, it's so much work plus you need to replace the gasket every time...
And as far as seafoam goes... I just haven't found a good way to get it in through the throttle body is all. I know that's best, but the aerosol kind that was made for that doesn't work as well. I'd rather have 3-4 very clean cylinders that 6 half-cleaned cylinders, if that makes sense. If there's a way to do it, I'd like to know myself! I'm about to seafoam my truck again soon.
Maybe two cans a of seafoam through the throttle at once? I think the amsoil with hot engine and turning off at 1/3rd of can to soak for a few minutes shoudl do the trick. It dissolved the carbon much better than seafoam did for me. Dissolved in both gas and liquid form, whereas seafoam just works in liquid I think...
Something in the EGR or cold start location would be best, unfortunately, the pcv valve is the closest option to that we have. I'd lean towards two cans of spray if you're really worried about the volume per second...
10-01-2013, 04:18 PM
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The PAIR and EGR valves are emission control systems that reduce Nox, HC and O2. If you don't have smog restrictions you can take them off but you're contributing to global warming
1. How does the engine idle? You said it jumps around a bit but how does the engine feel/act?
a. The PAIR valve is only used during deceleration and when the engine is cold and can be modified/remove without any ill effects besides emissions. However the EGR valve runs when the engine is warm, which could fit with your issue. However if it is removed completely there would be little to no impact, since all it does is recycle exhaust gases. It does have a gas temp sensor in the valve but unsure if that effects any other systems or the ECU.
b. However, if you notice your engine vibrating or shaking back and forth at idle (800 RPM) or any backfire, that's your valves out of spec. They need to be adjusted, which an adjustment alone takes a few days of solid work and about $100 in gaskets and tools.
c. If the sound is like what was described above, and just gets faster/louder as you accelerate there's more more serious damage, a valve job will require removing the cylinder heads and that's more like the $600 job and your truck will be out of commission for a while.
2. In regards to temperature, there are 3 components that might effect this. The first would be your thermostat in the lower radiator hose on the engine block: perhaps it is stuck open, the wrong temperature range, or maybe you don't even have one in at all! The second would be the Engine Coolant Temperature Sender, it's on the back of the engine and sends the temp reading to your gauge on the dash. It might be going bad, it's the smallest sensor located on the back of the engine. The third culprit could be your Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) that sends the data to the ECU. Not likely, but possible. You can check these per the FSM: http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...sm/engine.html.
3. About detonation/spark knock. It sometimes throws codes, sometimes not. If your knock sensor is working fine it won't throw a check engine light unless it is so bad that it can not retard the timing any more. I tried advancing the timing and got a lot of "pinging" with no codes, returning to 10 degrees fixed it. "Pinging" sound like a soft grinding noise, it has no rhythm like valve chatter does but rather like someone is just grinding the insides of your engine under light throttle. Seeing that you only get it at about 25% throttle, this might be your issue since it only happens under light loads.
You can google "engine pinging" for more science behind it but it's normally caused by 1. over-advanced timing (on 3VZE, setting timing higher than 10 degrees), 2. a long term lean condition (not enough fuel), or 3. bad carbon deposits that heat up so much that they actually ignite the fuel instead of the spark plug. Seeing that your engine coolant is running cold (if that reading is correct) you can rule out 3, leaving 1 & 2.
I'd recommend as a cheap possible fix running 2 injector cleaners through the gas tank (that also clean the combustion chamber) and running seafoam as directed through the brake booster line. Those will clear up more idle issues then they are given credit for, especially on a high mileage vehicle. If that doesn't clear it up you've got a long road ahead of you since it's hard to diagnose completely.
Basically, you've got several issues. These might be all connected, might not. They might be due to removing your EGR/PAIR valves, might not. Hard to say.
1. How does the engine idle? You said it jumps around a bit but how does the engine feel/act?
a. The PAIR valve is only used during deceleration and when the engine is cold and can be modified/remove without any ill effects besides emissions. However the EGR valve runs when the engine is warm, which could fit with your issue. However if it is removed completely there would be little to no impact, since all it does is recycle exhaust gases. It does have a gas temp sensor in the valve but unsure if that effects any other systems or the ECU.
b. However, if you notice your engine vibrating or shaking back and forth at idle (800 RPM) or any backfire, that's your valves out of spec. They need to be adjusted, which an adjustment alone takes a few days of solid work and about $100 in gaskets and tools.
c. If the sound is like what was described above, and just gets faster/louder as you accelerate there's more more serious damage, a valve job will require removing the cylinder heads and that's more like the $600 job and your truck will be out of commission for a while.
2. In regards to temperature, there are 3 components that might effect this. The first would be your thermostat in the lower radiator hose on the engine block: perhaps it is stuck open, the wrong temperature range, or maybe you don't even have one in at all! The second would be the Engine Coolant Temperature Sender, it's on the back of the engine and sends the temp reading to your gauge on the dash. It might be going bad, it's the smallest sensor located on the back of the engine. The third culprit could be your Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) that sends the data to the ECU. Not likely, but possible. You can check these per the FSM: http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...sm/engine.html.
3. About detonation/spark knock. It sometimes throws codes, sometimes not. If your knock sensor is working fine it won't throw a check engine light unless it is so bad that it can not retard the timing any more. I tried advancing the timing and got a lot of "pinging" with no codes, returning to 10 degrees fixed it. "Pinging" sound like a soft grinding noise, it has no rhythm like valve chatter does but rather like someone is just grinding the insides of your engine under light throttle. Seeing that you only get it at about 25% throttle, this might be your issue since it only happens under light loads.
You can google "engine pinging" for more science behind it but it's normally caused by 1. over-advanced timing (on 3VZE, setting timing higher than 10 degrees), 2. a long term lean condition (not enough fuel), or 3. bad carbon deposits that heat up so much that they actually ignite the fuel instead of the spark plug. Seeing that your engine coolant is running cold (if that reading is correct) you can rule out 3, leaving 1 & 2.
I'd recommend as a cheap possible fix running 2 injector cleaners through the gas tank (that also clean the combustion chamber) and running seafoam as directed through the brake booster line. Those will clear up more idle issues then they are given credit for, especially on a high mileage vehicle. If that doesn't clear it up you've got a long road ahead of you since it's hard to diagnose completely.
Basically, you've got several issues. These might be all connected, might not. They might be due to removing your EGR/PAIR valves, might not. Hard to say.
I don't have any backfire but I do have an exhaust "Pop" on decel. I think I got a leak behind the cat in the pipe.
I run injector cleaner through about every other tank.
I did have my VAFM adjusted to 3 clicks lean and re-adjusted it to 2 clicks with no improvement on pinging.
I think im gonna try 93 octane gas and if the pinging goes away or down, I figured out the problem possibly (too lean). I have a custom isr intake and am wondering if the intake pipe has some air leaks.
this weekend im gonna check for air leaks and fix my slightly leaking cold start injector that I found out one of the banjo bolt washers are missing, im gonna also test my coolant temp sensors both for the gauge and the ecu. and actually check for my thermostat opening.
hopefully I find something. I don't think its lean enough to cause any mechanical damage. (hopefully)
wouldn't a rattle from the valve lash be there at idle and not just start at a certain rpm?
10-01-2013, 04:31 PM
#10
Registered User
so you advanced the timing, deleted the egr/pair, and adjusted the afm to lean, all while running 87 octane and you are surprised that its pinging??? all of those things will contribute to pinging without the use of 93 octane.
10-02-2013, 08:34 AM
#11
Registered User
the idle jumps from like 1000 down to say 900 just to see the needle move and I feel shaking in the clutch pedal and im not sure if that's from the tranny input shaft being loose and needing changed or if its from the engine shaking or bad new pilot bearing. Before I adjusted the timing the engine shook worse than it did now that its at 12 or 13 instead of 10. Its a lot smoother now.
I don't have any backfire but I do have an exhaust "Pop" on decel. I think I got a leak behind the cat in the pipe.
I run injector cleaner through about every other tank.
I did have my VAFM adjusted to 3 clicks lean and re-adjusted it to 2 clicks with no improvement on pinging.
I think im gonna try 93 octane gas and if the pinging goes away or down, I figured out the problem possibly (too lean). I have a custom isr intake and am wondering if the intake pipe has some air leaks.
this weekend im gonna check for air leaks and fix my slightly leaking cold start injector that I found out one of the banjo bolt washers are missing, im gonna also test my coolant temp sensors both for the gauge and the ecu. and actually check for my thermostat opening.
hopefully I find something. I don't think its lean enough to cause any mechanical damage. (hopefully)
wouldn't a rattle from the valve lash be there at idle and not just start at a certain rpm?
I don't have any backfire but I do have an exhaust "Pop" on decel. I think I got a leak behind the cat in the pipe.
I run injector cleaner through about every other tank.
I did have my VAFM adjusted to 3 clicks lean and re-adjusted it to 2 clicks with no improvement on pinging.
I think im gonna try 93 octane gas and if the pinging goes away or down, I figured out the problem possibly (too lean). I have a custom isr intake and am wondering if the intake pipe has some air leaks.
this weekend im gonna check for air leaks and fix my slightly leaking cold start injector that I found out one of the banjo bolt washers are missing, im gonna also test my coolant temp sensors both for the gauge and the ecu. and actually check for my thermostat opening.
hopefully I find something. I don't think its lean enough to cause any mechanical damage. (hopefully)
wouldn't a rattle from the valve lash be there at idle and not just start at a certain rpm?
Definitely check for leaks, especially if you think there are some. The cold start injector is a common place for a vacuum leak.
Try adjusting your VAFM to 2 or 3 clicks rich (so moving a total of 5-6) if switching to higher octane doesn't help, just to see if it responds better. If so, you know it is running lean and causing the pinging.
And yes, a valve out adjustment become even more noticeable at idle. So probably not the issue.
10-02-2013, 05:29 PM
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I just filled this tank up with 93 octane and have a 6 hour drive tomorrow and put some fuel cleaner in it. I will see how it goes.
I did recently change my o2 sensor and I thought that was the cause (heater wire was cut and didnt work). I did have codes then for too lean and also too rich but havemt had anything in the last month since I changed it.
10-02-2013, 11:03 PM
#13
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Are you running walmart super tech injector cleaner? Or one that actually works like Redline?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1865221
10-03-2013, 09:29 AM
#14
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I just had this happen on my truck and knew exactly what it was. My throttle cable had become dirty after some very dusty 4x4 trips and was sticking. If you open the throttle by hand with the engine off, does the cable bunch up or slide through effortlessly? If it bunches up, it's not hard to remove and you can blast out the hosing with some carb cleaner and then put a lithium lube or chain lube down and work it through (I had to do this a few years back). Might fix the random RPM issue, has for me every time.
10-05-2013, 05:04 PM
#15
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Did some thinking and did some more playing around to find out what the sound is. I can get the sound to happen in neutral with no load and I can get the rattle to happen on decel.
Since their has to be a load for detonation or pinging to happen these to things have no load so its a rattle and not pinging.
I am gonna guess that its valves needing adjusting. Id say they need it anyway since I doubt they have ever been done.
I know I cab buy the tools for adjuating valves on amazon but what about the shims? Can you buy a pack of shims or do you have to buy just one at a time?
Thanks Travis
Since their has to be a load for detonation or pinging to happen these to things have no load so its a rattle and not pinging.
I am gonna guess that its valves needing adjusting. Id say they need it anyway since I doubt they have ever been done.
I know I cab buy the tools for adjuating valves on amazon but what about the shims? Can you buy a pack of shims or do you have to buy just one at a time?
Thanks Travis
10-05-2013, 09:58 PM
#16
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You buy the size you need as you need them. Your local dealer may or may not have them in stock -- some will swap your old shims for the size you need but most will charge you $5-10 per. So plan on a couple days downtime if they need to ship them...
11-03-2013, 07:53 PM
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Ok finally got the time to tear it apart. I called every toyota dealer withib 200 miles of me and not one kept shims in stock. I had to go to the self service junkyard for a power steering pump and found a 95 4runner with the 3vze. Took the pump and since the plenum was already out of it I decided to take the valve covers and camshafts out and get the shims from it to use if they were what I needed or close to it.
I got my engine taken apart and measured my valve clearances. I found them all to ne between .008 and .011 clearance. Some exhaust valves were a little tight but none were way out of spec. I then started checking other things and decided to check to make sure all the camshaft bearing caps were torqued. I found one in the back on the drivers side wasnt torqued all the way and found the first one on the passenger side had one stock bolt and one not. I torqued the stock one and it was fine but the other was not. It was stripped. I pulled the bolt out and found it wasn't the same thread as stock....
I decided to try and helicoil the hole and then realized the hole had an insert that was spinning with the tap for the helicoil. I think I got one or two threads into the insert before it spun tho. I put the bolt in and it tightened up to the torque spec so hopefully it works and if not I know its not my valves rattling anymore.
I got flamethrower orange injectors to put in too. I will hopefully get everything put bavk together tomorrow and start running the truck and checkibg if my rattle was fixed and see if the injectors do any improvements. Ill post back tomorrow.
Travis
I got my engine taken apart and measured my valve clearances. I found them all to ne between .008 and .011 clearance. Some exhaust valves were a little tight but none were way out of spec. I then started checking other things and decided to check to make sure all the camshaft bearing caps were torqued. I found one in the back on the drivers side wasnt torqued all the way and found the first one on the passenger side had one stock bolt and one not. I torqued the stock one and it was fine but the other was not. It was stripped. I pulled the bolt out and found it wasn't the same thread as stock....
I decided to try and helicoil the hole and then realized the hole had an insert that was spinning with the tap for the helicoil. I think I got one or two threads into the insert before it spun tho. I put the bolt in and it tightened up to the torque spec so hopefully it works and if not I know its not my valves rattling anymore.
I got flamethrower orange injectors to put in too. I will hopefully get everything put bavk together tomorrow and start running the truck and checkibg if my rattle was fixed and see if the injectors do any improvements. Ill post back tomorrow.
Travis
11-04-2013, 05:14 PM
#18
Registered User
Well... we did say that your valves were not the issue... but I guess if you had the time and desire then more power to you! A lot of work for just "checking" though.
While you are there, get a new PCV valve on your passenger's side valve cover. Get a new grommet too. Might also want to replace the hose. It's such a pain to get to and it'll cost like $8 for the whole deal.
Also, now's a good time to clean out your throttle body and intake. Be careful not to damage the TPS though, which is also a good time to double check since it's way easier when it's off the engine.
While you are there, get a new PCV valve on your passenger's side valve cover. Get a new grommet too. Might also want to replace the hose. It's such a pain to get to and it'll cost like $8 for the whole deal.
Also, now's a good time to clean out your throttle body and intake. Be careful not to damage the TPS though, which is also a good time to double check since it's way easier when it's off the engine.
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