tpelle

I'm an owner of a 1991 4x4 Extracab pickup, 22RE motor with the 5-speed transmission, that I purchased new. This truck has 199,600 miles on it. I've kept it up mechanically, and over the years it's had a rebuilt engine, replaced the radiator and heater core, rebuilt transmission - basically most of the major mechanical components have been renewed. The body is starting to rust pretty badly, so that's going to be my next major effort. I'd like to keep the truck and just see how long I can keep 'er going.

Since the truck was new I have had issues with the brass bushings on the front axles where they pass through the spindles. It seems like, even right after you greased them, if it was cold weather, those bushings would growl, grumble, and just generally misbehave. A few weeks ago, getting ready for winter, I decided to tear the front end down and grease the bushings. However, when I did so, I discovered the bushings were shot!

Researching my options on the 'net, I ran across mention of the needle-bearing retrofit, which replaces these bushings with needle-bearings like most other 4x4's, including the newer Toys, have. I decided to let my mechanic do the repair, and told him about the retro-fit, and asked him to research it and give me a quote. Keep in mind that he was going to have to tear the front end down to replace the bushings anyway, so I thought I'd compare the cost of simply replacing the bushings with new bushings vs. doing the needle-bearing conversion. Strangely enough, my local Toyota dealer service and parts department didn't even know about the conversion, and had to do some digging to find the parts required. It turns out that the needle-bearing conversion was going to cost only $75.00 more than just replacing the bushings.

I told him to go ahead with it.

I got the truck back last night. Drove it home from the shop with the hubs locked in, and got not a single complaint from the new bearings. This morning it was 14F with about 4" of new snow of top of what was already on the ground from last weekend. I drove the truck into work this morning, a 21 mile commute, with the hubs locked in and using the 4wd for about 1/3 of the trip. Absolutely no problems with the needle-bearing conversion!

So far I'm happy.

This truck is no longer my daily driver, and is not used for any serious off-roading. I am keeping it around as an "extra" vehicle, for weekend trips to the home-improvement store type chores, and for bad weather like today when my 4-wheeled hockey-puck (Ford Mustang) wouldn't get me where I need to go.

I gather that the needle-bearing conversion is not very popular with the serious off-roaders on this site. I'm wondering why? so far I'm happy, but is there something I need to know about restrictions on its use, or any special maintenance?

Thanks for any info you guys can provide. I just registered, but have been a long-time lurker on this site, using it as a resource for troubleshooting info.

Any info regarding good sources for replacement body panels - front fenders, maybe doors or door skins, etc. would be appreciated as well.

scuba

I've never heard about this needle bearing conversion. And I just looked for it but couldn't find much of anything. Mind linking to the info you have?

tpelle

Well, that's just it, I don't have any info!

I got wind of this in a thread (I think it was on this site) regarding trouble with the bushings, and a discussion of some home-made tools that allowed one to grease the bushings without doing such an extensive teardown. But I only saw it mentioned one time.

I asked my mechanic to research it to see what he thought, and he spent some time with the Toyota service and parts people, who ALSO had never heard of it before. Eventually I guess they did some googling around in their Tech Bulletin database and turned up the parts and procedures.

That's all I know!

But, as agent Mulder used to say, "The truth is out there!".

Edit: I did some googling myself, and found this thread on another forum that I've never been on before, and they're talking about some part numbers:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...-bushings.html

Here's another one:

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...d.php?t=146521

If I find anything else, I'll let you know.

Edit Again: This may be similar. It's in the How-To section here, but it's talking about a 4-Runner. May be the same or similar - Don't know:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f128...4runner-76360/

peow130

Only reason it isnt popular is because not too many people know about it.
also, what happens when you go out mudding and the bearing comes in contact with mud and water, then heats up and dies?
then its back to loud and growling.

mr toytech

i have done this conversion on my truck. did it right after i bought the truck about 4yrs ago for the same problem you were having. i have gone wheeling many times since and still have no problems. the conversion is a technical service bullitan from toyota. the needle bearings should still be relubed every chance you get. like at a brake or wheel bearing service.

waynesworld

hey mr toytech, can i get these parts from dealer and do tsb myself ?? o and your truck looks kool with the new wheels . where did u get trd exaust from?

mr toytech

yes you can get the parts from the dealer. and sorry!! its not trd exhaust. only the wheels. the exhaust is all custom.

MudHippy

Not similar, THE SAME. There's no difference between a 4Runner and a truck as far as the front axles/hubs.

You searched the wrong terms. Instead you should have tried "spindle bearing upgrade".

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...eplace-221504/

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...stions-221369/

See this write-up on it for more details, including part #s.
https://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech...imrockford.htm

My opinion stands, the needle bearings aren't worth the hassle. Definitely not if you've got manual hubs.

tpelle

So does anybody have a link to the real Toyota TSB about this? What is the maintenance schedule for these bearings?

MudHippy

The FSM maintenance schedule states:
R = Replace, change, or lubricate

http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b.../1maintena.pdf

mr toytech

http://www.omgsearch.net/pdf/downloa...w5NC0wMDEucGRm

just hit the download button at the bottum of the page!!! this is the actual tsb.

MudHippy

Thanks!

88toyblackjack

Ok, I glanced thru the upgrade bulletin from Toyota for the spindle upgrade, and it says it is only for 4wd vehiclesmade after 8/89. Mine is an 88 V6 auto. Anybody know what the differences are? I was under the impression that all 86-94 IFS components were the same.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Very cool thread with great info

:wabbit2:

BMcEL

Why did you have to rebuild the motor/tranny before 200k miles? Was it simply preventative maintenance? Way off topic, I know, but me no comprende.

James Woods

iTrader: (1)

From what I have read here on Yotatech (can't remember the threads) the bearing conversion was meant more for the ADD trucks, which would explain why the TSB states it is not for 86-88. I have also read that the bearings require more maintenance than the bushings do, like I stated I read this all in other threads I can't remember which ones, I also have not done this so I cannot say which is better or not.

tpelle

The tranny started jumping out of 4th gear at about 150,000, and it turned out that my mechanic could swap in a rebuilt tranny as cheap as he could redo 4th by itself, and do it quicker.

My original cylinder head developed a crack through the #2 spark plug hold. This apparently had been going on for some time, like a couple of years, because I was always low on coolant whenever I checked it. The head gasket finally went at about 160,000. I decided at that time that it was too risky to do a new cylinder head on a bottom end that had 160,000 miles on it - I figured I'd probably throw a rod out the bottom next - and it was only about an extra $1000.00 to drop in a rebuilt crate motor.

MudHippy

As far as the spindle bushings/bearings they are, from 86-95. The 89-95 spindles are slightly upgraded. They're a little beefier, but that doesn't apply to how the bushings/bearings fit though. The 86-88 spindles used a slightly different 2-piece spindle/hub seal, and that's the only part(s) that isn't the same for 89-95 spindles. The newer one-piece spindle/hub seals need slight modification to work in the 86-88 spindles(found that out the hard way on my 88s). The upgraded spindles fit all 86-95 trucks and 4Runners.

The inner spindle bushings were upgraded in early 1990, the TSB was for all 86-89 trucks and 4Runners.
For 86:http://www.alldatadiy.com/TSB/60/86600849.html
For 89:http://www.alldatadiy.com/TSB/60/89600849.html

So you can now run either the 90+ upgraded inner bushings or the 94-95 needle bearings in any spindle from 86-95. I have the 90+ upgraded inner spindle bushings in my 88 spindles at present, and they're a perfect fit. The outer spindle bushings have always been the same from 86-95.

ADD vs. non-ADD has nothing to do with it really, because the spindle bearings weren't around untill 1994(see TSB above). Of course one can argue that the needle bearings might be better for an ADD rig. Because the ADD CVs are always spinning, and that tends to wear harder on the bushings(friction bearings), than the needle bearings(anti-friction bearings).

Then again the same would apply to a non-ADD rig, the needle bearings might last longer too. But they can do alright without them, since the CVs don't spin all the time.

The advantages of bushings over needle bearings, are that they can handle contamination, lack of lubrication, and moisture much better. If the needle bearings aren't kept dry, clean, and lubed at all times, then they're toast. Perhaps from spindle seal failure, which does occur. Ask me how I know.

tpelle

Wow! I really stirred things up for my first post, huh? And I ain't really trying yet!

88toyblackjack

Thanks MudHippy! I know the best way to truly know your vehicle is to go out and break it, tear it apart and put it all back together. I have tried, and so far I have only "bent" not "broke" mine. So now I am at 300K, or so, I cant remember. Its time to do a little upgrade and maintenance, and the advice I have recieved has been excellent, once you get past all the hooplah of 3.4, 7mg, 1uz and domestic swaps, SAS, and whatever else! I'm sticken with what got me this far, with maybe a just a few mods!