timothy47129

Hi I have a carbed 89 2wd pickup that won't start the 1st start of the day when it's cold out.I believe it to be a carb problem .when you go to start it with out even pumping the gas it acts flooded. I have checked spark when it does this and it's good but noticed the sight glass on carb is empty until I crank it.i have rebuilt the carb but is there a way it could be leaking down like the old Chevy quadrajets used to do and flooding it over night? I so what do I need to look for when I disassemble it.I am an experienced auto/ diesel mechanic just new to Toyota

Thanks

slow-mo

This seems to be a common occurrence with the OEM Aisan carburetors after a rebuild. I have the same problem.

There are threads on this same subject here, at Toyota Nation & 4x4Wire or is it IH8MUD. Anyways, for what ever reason the fuel does leak out of the bowl. I was pursuing the reason on my carb but was sidetrack as I bought a Isuzu Trooper that needs repair.

I did confirm that the fuel leaks out when I removed my carb and saw fuel sitting on the plastic spacer & in the intake maifold. I took picturs of that. It seams that the fuel was coming from the secondary barrel. But that is only an observation from where the fuel was on the spacer. The fuel may have puddled there via gravity from my leaning truck.

It seams very odd to me that the fuel can even leak out of the carb as all the fuel jets are above the fuel level except one, the idle jet. Even then the idle fuel circuit still has to travel up, above the fuel level in the carburetor. (edit to add: Oh wait, scratch that, the slow jet is there too.) So unless the carburetor bowl is being pressurized, which it can't since it is must be open to function, I don't see how fuel can leak out. Maybe through some capilary action. The fuel bowel is one casting, it itself does not have any gaskets.





There have been some threads that I read regarding that the fuel is boiling/percolating.

I've been meaning to get some Tracerline UV dye for fuel and see if I can find a solution for this odd fuel leak.


So, two issues arrise because of this, one it takes a little bit longer to start a cold engine as most of the fuel has left the fuel bowl. Or it will start quickly but then die because there is not yet enough fuel in the bowl. That is what is happening to me. And second, on a hot engine, after enough fuel has leaked into the intake manifold, flooding occurs when one tries to start the engine. When that occurs, Toyota says to press the gas pedal all the way to the floor and hold it there until the engine starts.



Oh, and welcome to Yotatech.

yprior

Have you checked your cold start injector?

timothy47129

Yeah I knew the bowl was on the outside just meant it leaks into the intake like the quadrajets used to.Just wasnt sure if there was something inside that a gasket wasnt sealing or something.And holding the pedal to the floor dosent help.But it has to leak everytime it sits because even warm i have to hold the pedal 1/4 way down so it starts on the 2nd crank.if not it takes about 6 cranks to start.Im going to check the bowl vent.If its clogged when i shut if off while hot im sure the fuel inside would build up pressure since everthing is hot.

timothy47129

I found my problem the gasket between the choke breather which is the top of the carb and the body is leaking.It looks like I will be buying a better carb kit that the gp sorenson i got on ebay for 12 bucks.I ran it while looking down it with a flashlight and it was dry then turned it off and and took a look and saw it seeping fuel.I just hope these carbs arent prone to warp.I will be checking it with a stright edge and prob take a fine hand file to the mating surfaces to ensure flatness

timothy47129

Here is a pic

slow-mo

For us with the 22R carburetors, we don't have the cold start injector. That's part of the EFI fuel system.



That is what I mean. The fuel is draining from the bowl out via the jets to the inside of the intake manifold. It has to since the bowl is one piece, no gaskets that tie the bowl together.


Not from what I have concluded regarding this carburetor.


I had thought of that too, but it should not be a result of a restricted vent as that would affect all the fuel circuits.

That would make the most sence as the pressure would build up in the bowl and force the fuel out of the different circuits.

I even removed the Outer Vent Control Valve (OVCV) to allow the bowl to vent to the atmosphere. That opening is much larger the vent tubes on the air horn, the top part of the carburetor. That did not change a thing. The fuel still drained. That's why I concluded that the draining is not part of the carburetor becoming pressurised.

slow-mo

Ahhh, very interesting. Keep us informed.

I bought the same GP Sorenson gasket kit as well from Autozone.

I bought an OEM gasket from Toyota Parts Zone but it came in bent and damaged the gasket.

timothy47129

ill know something in a day or so if i get it local or in a few days if i order online.Will let you know how it goes checking to see if its warped also.I have heard on a few other yota forums napa kits are the way to go but 57.99 wow!

timothy47129

Just a quick update. the only kit i could find local was a walker kit at orilleys for $28.00 .It should be in later today .so im going to tackle it after work.I hope the gasket is thicker in this kit I remember in the last kit i used it was pretty thin.The walker kit I used on my quadrajet was pretty good and had a nice thick gasket.so we will see how it goes.

Shifty762

I had the same problem after rebuilding my carburetor (87 22R). I noticed during the rebuild that the "atmosphere vent solenoid" plunger does not seal worth a damn, add to that the solenoid was not actuating when 12VDC was applied. I rebuilt the carb as usual and noticed after a few long cranking sessions in the mornings that the sight glass showed no fuel in the bowl. I tore the carb down to find nothing suspect.

Eventually I came to the conclusion that the fuel was evaporating through the vent. I pulled the line that leads from the vent to the charcoal canister and capped the vent nipple.

There is another port where the bowl can equalize, the vent I plugged is just for the emissions BS.


On a side note, I bought the Napa kit because I avoid VatoZone crap whenever possible. I spent $70+ on the Napa kit thinking it would be the best option. A few weeks ago, I rebuild my father in laws 22R carb with the Autozone kit and I could tell no appreciable difference between the two... except price, somewhere around $28 for the Autozone kit. If I ever do it again I will go with the Autozone kit as the quality was identical.

timothy47129

Well I got it done and now it runs great.I belive it was leaking fuel at the oring for the booster assembly and leaking at the air horn gasket.I also found a great way to clean the glued spacer gaskets off.Spray carb cleaner on them then scrape it with a razor blade holding it at a 90 degree angle.then respray and repeat.It does take a while so I got the metal pieces out of it and used a belt sander and it worked perfect.I also left the metal deflector out of the spacer on the secondary side .I dont know why it directs the fuel to the #1and 2 side of the intake.I dont know if it made any difference but it did have more of a roar to it when you kick it in like its flowing more air.I did leave the primary deflector in though since it directs the fuel to the middle of the intake.

slow-mo

So your carburetor is now not leaking? You fixed the leak?



Can you clarify this sentance? Where is this booster assmebly on the carburetor?




I was thinking about the top (air horn) gasket leaking and it still does not make sence that with the engine off that fuel would be up that high. That gasket is above the fuel level. Even though the fuel circuits do pass through that gasket, that happens when the engine is running. With the engine off, all of the fuel in the different circuits should become level with the fuel bowl.

I'm not stating that I doubt you, it just seems odd that the fuel in the carburetor would still be moving, leaking out, on a static engine. The whole principle of a carburetor is based on pressure differential which occurs on a running engine. With the engine off, the pressure in the carb bowl and the intake manifold would become equal.

Our carburetors are possessed. haha

timothy47129

the booster is the round thing in the middle of the 1st pic i posted of it leaking.i have thought about it and thought about it and still cant come up with a theory of how it was leaking.Im thinking some how the acell pump nozzle which is the brass tube sticking out in the 1st pic was dribbling out with it sitting and flooding it.but if u look higher up above the booster in the pic the side wall of the barrel is wet were the horn meets the body which would have been the gasket.All i know is the horn And body werent waped used a stright edge and feeler gauge to check at 6 points on each piece the same way you check for a warped head.I just used a torch tip cleaner to clean all little passages and berrymans carb cleaner and compressed air to blow everything out.slapped it together threw some carb paint i had left from a rochester on it and bolted it on.And every thing is well no leaking inside like before when i shut it off everything is dry.

timothy47129

Here is a pic inside right after turning the truck off compare this to the 1st pic i posted

timothy47129

Just to update we had a cold morning here this morning and she fired right up.1 pump and started on the 2nd crank.

slow-mo

How did this carb kit compare to the Autozone kit?




That is actually normal, that is how the Aisan carb is designed. Vacuum draws in the plunger and the solenoid holds it in place. That solenoid is not strong enough to draw the plunger in.








So does the fuel in the bowl drain out?