mikeztoyz

I jus got a 87 4runner w/ a 22re in it. My buddy i got it from is my Toyota guru & said he fired it up & it knocked. I have another 22Re 4the 4runner to use but i never heard the 4runner run b4 trade:-( i got it home & tried starting it no go. I checked fuel spark & air it came to b a busted piston!! My dad told me it would run on 3cylinders but we could only start it w/ either & he said it sounded like it skiped timing because he had to twist the distributor while i hit ths key & spray either in the throttle body. I dont doubt my dad he builds 10sec race cars but im making him help me w/ my toyotas. My real question is if the timing didskipwould the crank sensor & or knock sensor b off timing because the chain skiped so my injectors werent being told when to be opening?? I was getting fuel to rail but i dont think the injectors were actuating. Aslo checked w/ a NOID & no signal. Ohm meeter says both female inserts on injector harness are both hot/live/powered. My dad says injectors have a +&- like anything else. Y would both b powered on the injector harness??Plz help me

gennro

Holy crap! Rewrite that so it makes sense so people can help you. That mess above needs to be fixed.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

There,^^^^^ I was bored, so ... I cleaned it up for ya, OP Just click 'edit' in your orig. post and copy and paste Just that portion above in there, yeah?

I can relate to these 'TAIL CHASING SESSIONS' being frustrating.. But, that dude^^^? He's right! Many people, if having problems making sense of a post(especially an original one), will just move on. Want to see you get some help, so try to articulate as cleanly as possible/punctuation and all, ok?

* You have fuel to the rail, so the pump is not LIKELY the issue(However; sometimes, having SOME pressure doesn't mean you have ENOUGH pressure).

* You have spark, because it's starting/running with ether.

* (correct me if I'm wrong, guys, please??>>>> ) Electrical Timing/Ignitor controls Injector Timing through the ECU and tells the injector when to open/close(Might start looking into testing here)

* The LONG wire cluster that runs over the engine from the Plenum side winds up at the Ignitor, here>>>


* It(the ignitor) communicates with the ECU after reading spark timing from the dizzy, through this connection>>>



* IF your dizzy was 180* off, .... it wouldn't likely fire over and sound SOMEWHAT normal, as your motor seeeeems to do when run on ether. Rather it would just flood out with fuel that couldn't be burned(which would wind up in your oil, so watch out for that as well!) In fact, I THINK the ignitor wont even let the injectors fire if the Dizzy is 180* off(can't remember, have to ask my buddy who went through that... We tried to get fuel out the rail, through injectors, but they wouldn't squirt until he turned his dizzy 180*. HOWEVER< he also had a wiring issue in the Y's of the 'Injector wiring within the harness', where each of 2 single wires fire a pair of injector wires.)

* If your CHAIN is off a tooth or more, that could cause LOTS of problems, yes. And you don't want your CAM and CRANK timing to be WAY OFF, right? However, this is NOT likely your issue(might be AN issue, but it wouldn't stop your injectors from firing, not that I know of, whether or not the knock sensor is an issue in some other way or not). Remember, you said it sounds somewhat normal when running on Ether. How could it run on ether if your CAM/Crank timing is way off? The valves wouldn't be opening at the right time.... I would be thinking it would just sputter and run REALLY chunky, if at all. (Still, pull the valve cover, put it to TDC on compression stroke and CHECK that your CAM sprocket has the NOTCH at 12o'clock and the dimple in the sprocket at 11:59... You might not see the shiny link in the EXACT spot that you would assemble it at... But you WILL see if the CAM Sprocket is off a tooth or two). Once you find out the sprocket is right on key at TDC compression stroke... Look into your Dizzy slot and make sure the Dizzy-Gear that's turned by the CAM has it's 'DIMPLE' RIGHT before/counterclockwise of the CAM drive gear.(The dizzy gear has a dimple in it/FACING YOU as you look in there/ that YOU CAN see with a light on it. Make sure that dimple is RIGHT BEFORE meeting the CAM's dizzy-drive gear.)

* Those things, above^^ are EASY to check and verify... And they're free to check as well. MAKE SURE the timing is all ok

* VERY FIRST thing to check is that your ignitor connector is hooked up. (With the ignitor disconnected, I think it would still fire with ether... Because it's not relying on the EFI/Fuel Pump/Injectors to run... rather, it's running simply on basic spark/ignition and mechanical timing and combustion, WITHOUT Injector Activity even being in the picture.)

Here's a cool link I just found to help with SOME of the EFI system for the 22RE/Including CSI and CSI time switch......

http://home.earthlink.net/~twopapa/toyefi.htm


PS> Just read through a thread with a guy who had VERY similar symptoms(but with a 3.0) who wound up finding 'more WATER than FUEL' in the fuel system. Again, I don't think that's your issue because your injectors aren't even firing at all, RIGHT?

PSS> IS THIS MOTOR, NOW(the current one in the vehicle) the one you're trying to run with a busted piston??????? If so... why? Fix that short block and start over... At least then you'd KNOW that your chain timing/etc., was right on, no? Besides, you're not going to run it like that for a 'while', right? Also, I would think all that pressure from that busted piston would be hard on the crank/bearings/holes. I'm confused, as you said, "I have another 22RE"... But never mentioned swapping it in, etc. ??????

mikeztoyz

K i had figured the ignitor unit talked to the ecu. My issue is my injector harness is throwing + on both terminals for 1 injector. ++ insted of -+ on the ohm meter.

mikeztoyz

Yes i have a fresh 22re out of a 94 2wd im goin to install. Heck no i love yotas id never do run a yota n the dirt willingly. I traded a 3.0 v6 & my 86 truck bed 4 the 4runner w/ clean title. My buddy said he had it started but it knocked, the 1 pulg that each injector has has 2 little female inserts 1 should b+ & 1 should b- to power injector but when tested my dad said both are + & my ecu & coil/ignitor i took off my 86 2wd i know they work. Im lost y the herness is throwing a ++

Hadmatt54

Toyota fires the injectors by completing the ground circuit #10 & #20 at the ECU. I take it that you have the key on and are measuring 12v. on each of the pins that attach to the injector. You will indeed measure 12v. on each side because the circuit has not been completed internally in the ECU. Other than the proper orientation of your voltmeter leads (Red + Black -) in this situation there is no positive or no negative reference.
The injector is just a coil and has an impedence (Resistance) value in ohms so you will measure the same voltage on either side, because the circuit is not complete, so there is not any voltage drops across the resistances. That circuit comes directly off of the IG2 terminal of the key switch, through the solenoid resistor (finned aluminum box about 1 1/2" x 3") on the passengers fender, through the injectors and to #10 (white/red wire) and #20 (white wire) at the ECU. If you measure 12v. from either of these points at the ECU to ground with the key on there is nothing wrong with your injector wiring.
22-re's are batch fired and the #10 and #20 are tied together in the harness after the solenoid resistor, so if the ecu completes the circuit through either one of these wires all of the injectors will fire at the same time, but only 2 cylinders will be on the compression stroke with their intake valves open allowing the air/fuel mixture into the combustion chamber and 2 cylinders will be on the exhaust stroke at any time.
This tutorial will give you an idea how the ignitor affects whether or not the ECU will fire the injector circuit. The 22-re uses the VAST system.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h23.pdf

mikeztoyz

Ok so im gettin proper power but my injetors are not spraying klicking nothing. The busted motor would run on starting fluid but die so im not gettin fuel in cylender but its in the rail

Hadmatt54

As ChefYota4x4 already stated;
Jumper the fuel pump check connector (Fp to B+). It's on the drivers fender, it's a 2 pin connector with a white/black and green wire in it. (at least that is the color on an 86).
Once jumpered turn on the key, you should hear the fuel pump start up and build up pressure and if it is reaching the proper pressure the regulator will open and you will hear fuel running through the return line back to the tank. If it doesn't come on your pump is toast or you have a wiring problem and if it runs but doesn't send fuel back to the tank then you have a weak pump and it's not building up enough pressure to start the truck.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I had a similar problem. Mine wound up being the crimp on the injector wiring. #1 and #3 share the same wires and same with #2 and #4. It is a poor design. It would pass resistance checks but not fire the injectors. Here is the test I ran. On #282...https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...6/index12.html

mikeztoyz

Is the ecu supose to be hot when the key is off & out the igniton?? Mine is.... input? Am i over thinking this?? If my timing is off will the knock sensor or crank sensor stop my fuel pump from pumping? My biddy said some umm ummm nissans do..... i cant belive i said that name lol.

mikeztoyz

When i say hot i mean powered up.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

I can't say off hand... Hmmm, should know that one. Depends on where you're testing for power from?(Maybe? lol)... I would THINK it runs on 'Switched' power... Some of what runs through it has constant power, like the brake lights...... BUT, the ECU might only work once the IGN key is in at least ACC position.

There's a whole section on this in the FSM in my sig. (have you downloaded it yet? It's a great tool to have, Mike ) Anyway, in the FSM it shares all kinds of tests and troubleshooting. I KNOW my alarm had to be hooked through the ECU, but that doesn't mean whatever he hooked up was 'Constant Hot', ya know?

mikeztoyz

Ok update : Ok so i had recieved a 1987 4runner in some parts barttering, I never heard it run but my buddy swore it fired up & knocked. I could only get it to fire on starting I figured out the knock sensor was broken in half & siliconed back together. I installed my working 22re hooked it apl back up & it started right up!!!!! I tried to post a pic of the broken sensor but I can figure out how sorry.

mikeztoyz

I ment to say I could only get it fired on starting fluid & that after I installed my working 22re and hooked it ALL back up and it started right up. I'm just on my phone @ work so its a lil complicated

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

CONGRATZ! Great news, man...... what's next?

mikeztoyz

We'll its my wife's so....( I have the 1980 4x4 she wanted a 4x4 n the 80 is MY baby n my house is Toyota or ur walking!!) she wants to buy some gotti tires & I already having some aluminum rims 4 her 15x10, so while she saves up & looks 4 those I'm going to check out the engine I took out. I removed the valve cover to use as a bolt catcher lol & I noticed the head had some goodies as well as a duel row timing chain on a 22RE. So I'm going to dig deeper. But I want to put a duel row chain on it. I have a k&n air filter & I have a 16inch caveler fan I'm going to wire up the relay & temperature switch 4 it. Id like to save up 4 some bosh injectors and a performance clutch. Ooo and cuz its my wife's ima have my buddy weld some lower corner gaurds like rock crawlers have and a big front/rear bumpers...maybe some 4:33 gears & some 33s or 35s?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Bosch injectors, eh? Not really sure on that one... wont say "NO, don't do it", cuz I don't know, lol.... I mean, what does LCE and places like my local guys, RC Injectors(pretty famous) use? PRETTY sure they stick with Japanese ones, even though they DO fix them up for more power, etc. Maybe call RC Injectors and see what they ask for a set?

I still have to check my CSI and see if it's leaking a lil bit. Don't think so... but gotta rule it out(you brought up injectors so I'm on a tangent, sorry! ahahaha).

Best to ya, Mike!

mikeztoyz

Thanks chef ill shop around 4 the best deal but bosch patented injection ALTHOUGH lc engineering is a good name. I'm open to any suggestions so if u have any helpful tips 4 better power or mpg my dad said a msd?? Along w/ a better cam but that's subtracting from my 80 cuz I pay 4 mods she keeps. Maintenance

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Not sure adding power and MPG goes much hand in hand in most mods, lol... BUT, it CAN be done, I guess. What impresses me most about these is the reliability... BUT, I think my CAM and Header were the best reasonable mods I did. I think the CAM in these is BY FAR more 'instant added go-go' and for around 300$ less, lol. I noticed more gain from the 261 CAM, for sure. But the header did seem to help a LIL bit on the top end and top of the RPM's around town. The header also caused me to be on the skinny pedal a bit more as it sounds NICE for a lil motor, lol. So there went the mileage gain if I gained any at all, lol.

Not sure on the MSD.... I can't comment on that. I'd ask guys like www.22reperformance.com or engnbldr what they think... Maybe on here you'll get some input on that. I say ask those guys cuz I don't think they sell it... So they're not as likely as say "LCE" to try and talk it up. 22reperformance doesn't even like the Cold Air kits... they build VERY capable stage 2 and stage 3 motors and recommend the stock air box.... It's a world of differing opinions out there, buddy, ya know? lol. They do know their stuff... So do Tod and Ted at engnbldr... I would ask all that stuff when you're ordering a CAM(if you end up doing so)... or maybe just send Ted at engnbldr dot com in an email, short and sweet, .... "Here's how much I have, here's what I want, what's the best way to get it?".... He WILL NOT lie to ya, ya know? He wont even try to sell you a CAM.... But I can tell you, from experience... I put that CAM in and INSTANTLY was able to get up the Cahon Pass a gear higher! lol. That's a result I can say FOR SURE is there. It's not gonna make you lay rubber like an LS1... but it's a 'gain', ya know? Without compromising smog specs, etc.

If you were looking to just do a lil bit at a time.... and you don't wanna spend 550$ or so on a new head(w/cam, but still).... Then I might spend the 118$ or so for the 261 CAM to start... Then you could add the header or anything else, any time, ya know? I added dual row eski springs, they help in closing the valves more quickly.... I also added manganese bronze guides, new valves and viton seals.... I think I got this head all done up for around 260$, for all those parts(add 118$ for the CAM, so 375$ or so) and all machining(have a good machinist who's nice enough to give me deals).

You mentioned 4.30's and 33's... I'd definitely go with 4.88's or at least 4.56's with 33's.. 35's, you're gonna want 5.29's with a 22RE, I'm pretty sure. It's not a powerhouse, unless you're building a stroker... so you'll need the help from the gears. Will take a lil off the top speed, but you'll get there quicker, and you'll actually get up hills! lol.

In the end, depends on what you wanna spend! HEY< that rhymes! lol.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

PS> Call RC Injectors and ask them some questions as well.. They're GOOD PEOPLE... and the techs might give you a couple minutes to help see if you even need anything beyond stock injectors, ya know? If you want new ones, or rebuilt completely set.... They'll have em, and they're reputable. Also, that's all they do, so I'd go with them before LCE, no offense to LCE, lol. Witchhunter seems to be a good company from what I've read on here, too... Not sure, but I'd GUESS they could sell you some if you need em... and they DEFINITELY would redo yours if that's needed, ya know?