edmondsonknives

I recently was fortunate enough to buy a 1986 toyota 22re, almost exactly the same truck as the one my father bought new when I was 6. The problem with my truck is it runs and idels great when cold, after it warms up all kinds of havoc unfolds. It loses almost all power, climbing a hill is out of the question. It wont go over 3000rpm in first gear, its skips and studders if you try to press the pedal farther than 1/4 down, two other things that are wierd is the heat almost turns cold and the exhaust manifold starts glowing. Now the heater works perfect up until it gets warm, or maybe a few minutes after and then it goes almost cold. Resistance on TPS is perfect/MAF is also good, Heres a list of what Ive done:
1.New thermostat
2.New plugs and distributor cap and spark plugs
3.New O2 sensor
4.completely flushed old coolant, put new in and purged air
5.New muffler, no cat
Any help would be so greatly appreciated, Id alsobe glad to take pics and post them for anyone who may have this problem in the future

scope103

Have you checked ignition timing? http://web.archive.org/web/201101242.../5distribu.pdf

edmondsonknives

I have not, that will be the first thing I do tomorrow, thank you so very much for this wonderful info!!!!!!!!! Ill post the results

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

if the timing checks OK, might look into the fuel pressure. the 22re needs 30 psi most of the time. if it is below 25 psi, it will run poorly; below 20 psi, it will barely run at all.

scope103

Well, for what it's worth, the spec. is 38-44psi, so if you can measure 25psi something is absolutely wrong. I don't doubt that it might run with that little pressure (the learned fuel trim will increase the injector open-time to compensate), but you'll have very poor WOT performance.

Measuring the fuel pressure, alas, is not trivial. In addition to the gauge, you'll need an adaptor like this:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post52330847
and some crush washers (particularly if you plan to remove the gauge). Instead, you can do a quick check of fuel pressure by removing the fuel return line from the fuel pressure regulator, and put it into a suitable container. At idle, you should get about 1/2 liter/min. If the pump can't get it up to 33-37psi, then nothing will come out of the FPR. This works much better than trying to measure the fuel pressure directly because a) you don't need a gauge or adaptor, and b) since the return line is low pressure, you don't need crush washers. Of course, if the FPR itself is your problem, this test can't tell, but one usually worries about a weak fuel pump.

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

spec for the pump is, but the system normally runs 28 to 34 psi. the pressure regulator moderates the pressure; rarely does the system sit at 44 psi.

i've been there, having chased pump issues for about 2 years. the lack of high rpm for the OP is one symptom of low pressure. i installed a permanent gauge to be able to rule out fuel pressure as a cause of poor running.

osv

i would also check to see if it's throwing any codes

scope103

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. There isn't a spec for the pump; it has to potentially put out much more than the maximum the injectors need (44psi ). The fuel pressure spec is for what the fuel pressure regulator sets. (That pressure, of course, is designed to go up and down as the vacuum goes up and down.) Are you saying that the engineers who wrote the FSM don't know the correct pressure? Uh ...

Well, mine never runs as low as 28, even at idle (where the spec is 33-37psi, because of the higher vacuum). I've never seen your setup, but if you have a permanently installed gauge it's subject to all the vibration of the engine, which isn't going to improve its accuracy. Or, your FPR could be running a little low. If so, it would not surprise me if your Learned Fuel Trim http://www.cygnusx1.net/Media/Supra/...taTech/h44.pdf was a little "rich" to compensate for the lower pressure.

The important part is that your rig runs well. And as long as you have good flow in the fuel return line at maximum load, you have the margin you need.

Well, not just high rpm, but his stated inability to put out a high load. That's where the fuel demand is.

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

the FSM has several tests, and lists several ranges depending on the status of the system.

engine off, pump running - 33 to 38 psi
engine on, vacuum disconnected, at idle - 33 to 38 psi
engine on, vacuum connected, at idle - 27 to 31 psi

i'm certain that i've read elsewhere in the FSM that "pinching the return line" should cause system pressure to build to about 50 psi, assuming a properly functioning pump, but i cannot locate that statement at this time. ah, just found it (FI-8). 57 psi when pinched, check for leaks.

so, for normal operation, which for my rig is with the FPR vacuum connected, yes, i'd say it mostly runs in the range of 28 to 34 psi, confirmed by the gauge.

with no load, and engine running at 4000 rpm (which i virtually never reach while driving), the indicated pressure is appx 37 psi. probably differs while driving, but i cannot read the gauge doing that.

i absolutely verify that these will run at 15 to 20 psi, but barely. terrible performance, skipping (lean misfire), hard to keep running. with 8 pump failures, i got plenty of practice driving with subpar pressure. after the 4th, i installed the gauge to rule out/confirm fuel pressure/delivery as the problem, etc.

wally

scope103

Oh! This may be a model-year thing.

The '93 FSM lists 33-37psi at idle (about 6psi higher). http://web.archive.org/web/201501160...28fuelpump.pdf (Mine is a '94). Do I assume correctly that you have the FSM for 1986? (which is the model year of edmondsonknives')

Does the '86 have the ballast resistor for the injectors? I suppose the whole system might have been designed around a different rail pressure.

While "most" of the 1993 manual I often cite applies to all 2d gen trucks, I am once again reminded that there are a few gotchas hiding there. My apologies.

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

i have an '87, and thus the '87 FSM. the '86 should have the same injectors, although it may not have the resistor. i'm almost certain that the '87 pump and FPR are the same as '86, and that the pressure specs are the same.

no harm.

wally

edmondsonknives

Alrighty, I had the timing checked and it had advanced, the mechanic that works in my knife shop part time set it back right and put the idle speed to 750. Now, when you drive it and go past 1/4 throttle it starts to hesitate, but if you let off the pedal to where its just barely pressed it seems to pick up and go a bit better but still not the way it should. kinda like there is a sweet spot with just a bit of the pedal pressed, go any futher tho and it starts to jump and hesitate. Next I will be checking the fuel pressure and Ill post the results. I honestly thank you all so very much for your knowledge, when this problem gets fixed someone that posted and helped me will get a extremely nice surprise in the mail, Ill let me little one draw the name. I cant begin to thank you guys for your knowledge, I wish I had been more interested in motors and stuff now, I was always about making knives. Again thank you all, next step coming

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

here is a link showing my gauge installation. there are other options. this is relatively simple, less than $75 for the parts.

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...l#post52301099

there are other posts in that thread to look at, too.

RAD4runner has a good build thread with more info about this, too.

wally

edmondsonknives

Thank you Wally, Thank everyone very much!! It will take a few days to get the parts in so Ill check back in once everything is hooked up and go from there, again thank you all very much!! Charlie

84sr5yoty

It sounds like the engine is running fine in open loop but all hell breaks loose at closed loop. These symptoms sure sound like the CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor) is going haywire.

On these older OBD1 trucks, the only way to test the CTS is to ohm it out. Perform these tests both with the engine stone cold and at normal operating temp. An IR gun can be handy and helps with accuracy.

ChinkTruck

If its not a fuel pressure issue my next guess would be worn piston rings. You can do a pressure check to determine this. It could explain why its running good cold then goes to crap when warm. As metal heats up it expands, could be just enough where your getting decent cylinder pressure when cold but after hot metal expansion creates a gap you get pressure loss.

edmondsonknives

well got a small update, tonight I drove the truck over to my Dads so he can put a new fuel filter on and check the fuel pressure tomorrow and something happened. The truck would barely make it out of the driveway, no power as usual, but after I drove it the 4 miles to his house I opened the hood and the exhaust manifold was glowing red....again, now the wierd part is the sweet spot in the throttle, almost barely pushing it down would make it feel regular, but as soon as its pushed harder it bogged down awful.. moer coming soon, thank all you guys so very much for your help

coryc85

I was going to say maybe a clogged cat, but I see you do not have a cat. Adjust your valves, that one is free and not too hard. The spec is .008 intake and .012 exhaust at operating temp, but many people have had success adjusting them cold to .001 over factory specs. You already said your timing has been set, but maybe double and triple check it. If problem persists after valve adjustment, maybe check/adjust your TPS...google 4Crawler TPS adjustment for a good write up, I would link it but work blocks access to that site for some reason.

Your O2 sensor you said is new, is it denso or bosch or another brand?

edmondsonknives

HUGE UPDATE, so the fuel fliter was basically had mud in it or at least thats what it looked like, so a tank cleaning is about to happen. After replacing the fuel filter we decided to look at the exhaust manifold and BOOM! its cracked right down the middle! So hopefully a clean tank and a new exhaust manifold might get her back in shape. Heres a question, My o2 sensor is on a pipe that bolts on to the exhaust manifold, the ones Ive seen at rockauto and a few other places have the o2 sensor bolting to the exhaust manifold, will it be okay for me to do that??? they all say OEM, even the one from toyota has it that way?

ChinkTruck

No, the o2 sensor on the exhaust manifold is for 22r carburetor trucks. Don't think the sensors/ plugs are even the same.