hermyboy3000

Folks I'm scratching my head here. I have to turn the key times before my 3vz will start. First crank the engine rolls strong, but won't start, second crank same thing, and finally the third crank it'll start.

Here's what I've done:
Swapped my dizzy, it was out of spec, but that didn't help.
New coil, that didn't work either.
Re-timed
I've tested the igniter as per the FSM and it checks out.

What do I check now?

1991 3vze

rworegon

Sounds like a fuel pressure issue.....

abecedarian

Also verify the cold start injector time switch and the cold start injector are working... if it's cold out. If it's over 65F or so, that's not relevant.

You need to verify the fuel pump runs when you turn the key to start (it shouldn't run when just turning the key on), maybe change the fuel filter.
And the engine just may go "blump, blump, blump" a few times before it starts so expect to hold the key to start for more than one or two seconds.

Oh, and don't press the accelerator pedal at all when you're starting it.

hermyboy3000

It's in the 80's right now, but I replaced the cold start injector and the injector time switch last winter.

Not sure when the blump, blump, blump is supposed to happen? After the fuel filter exchange?

rworegon

I think the blumps are just to indicate that it may need to roll over a few times before it catches....this would certainly be the case after chaonging the fuel filter. On the 1st crank, how long do you let it crank?

Does this start pattern occur every time or just under certain conditions like the 1st start of the day?

hermyboy3000

It always takes 3 cranks to start up in the morning or after several hours os sitting around.

skoti89

you've covered alot of ignition/ starting stuff. I would start looking at fuel delivery isues also. Sorry, but thats not my thing. wouldn't know where to start. I fuel filter in a cheap and easy fix to start with those. You should also be able to test the fuel pressure most likely.

scope103

You either have a bad check valve in the fuel pump (so the pressure in the fuel system is relieved as it sits), or, more likely, a bad COR that is not closing on the STA signal. Instead, as you crank it, the VAF closes and runs the pump, but too little too late.

As abecedarian says you need to verify the fuel pump runs when you turn to start. It's easiest to test by doing it backwards. Jumper FP to B+ on the diagnostic connector. You should hear the pump run with key on. Wait about 3 seconds, then crank it. If it starts right up you've got one of the two problems I mentioned. Pull out the COR and test it following the FSM procedure (4crawler had this problem and talks about it on his site). If the COR is working, then it's likely the fuel pump.

hermyboy3000

scope - please excuse my ignorance, but what is the COR?

scope103

Circuit Opening Relay. It supplies power to the Fuel pump when a) the key is turned to start, OR b) when there is air flow through the VAF (Volume Air Flow meter). What happens if the engine suddenly stops? The air flow drops to zero, and the fuel pump is shut off. Saving you from a fiery end. http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/1990-1995...e/fuelpump.pdf

jumpering FP to B+ bypasses the COR (and therefore the STA signal and the VAF signal). If it runs with a jumper, you know what direction in which to look for your problem.

hermyboy3000

scope - I jumped FP to B+ and the Toy started up in the 1st crank!! So, does this mean I have a bad COR? If the COR is bad where do I find it?

hermyboy3000

I found this link with a picture to locate the COR. I'll swap this out, hopefully this resolves my probs.

scope103

Patience, Grasshopper.

The COR might not be bad itself; you have only been directed on the correct path. You can swap the part just to see if it will work, but only if you have $95 burning a hole in your pocket. http://www.villagetoyotaparts.com/pr...591035010.html (Much to my surprise, Autozone has one -- for $133! http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...er=518306_0_0_)

But 4crawler actually wrote up how to test one: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ORelayLocation So pull yours, and test it. If it's bad, I'd try RockAuto, a junkyard, the Dealer, in that order.

What if the COR is good? I described above how it could be a failed check valve in the fuel pump (this isn't a separate part, you just get a new pump.) You can positively check this with a fuel pressure gauge, or if you have a good ear by listening at the Fuel pressure regulator for the return flow. (As soon as you start the pump, you should get return flow, because the rail should be pressurized. If it takes 3 or more seconds before you hear the return flow, the problem is (probably) in your pump.)

(Okay, it could be a leaky fuel pressure regulator. The leak is slow enough to work okay while running, but it runs the pressure down through the return line when shut off for 10 minutes.)

Diagnosis is always more fun that throwing parts at the problem.

Gareth68

You don't have a gas smell at all do you? Any leak will obviously cause depressurization as well.

As stated above, lack of pressure can be the pump itself, it can be the regulator, it can be a bad injector not completely sealing, or a physical leak....common one being the pulsation damper.

Just throwing parts at it will get you there but at $70-100+ a pop, it can be an expensive form of diagnosis if you guess wrong a couple times.

hermyboy3000

Well gents, my COR, was completely corroded. I found a COR at the junk yard for 2.99. I slapped that in an vrooom, first key turn, she fired up. However, that happy feeling didn't last. Yesterday morning it was back to her old tricks, sort of, it now only takes two cranks to start. Wired, right? So, What to do now?

rgreene501

This is what was happening to the 93 that I bought at the beginning of the month. I dropped the tank and in the process found severe rust on the fuel line and top of the tank. I tapped the rust and then saw the leak. Every time it sat for more than a few minutes, it took a long crank to start as the line pressurized again. I replaced the tank, sender and pump as PM. The line was the culprit in the starting problem.

Now on to the brake lines... They're rusted too.

westjohns yota

def a fuel issue, my 86 does this but only after its been running