Starter issue

djrez4 · 10-31-2009, 01:09 PM

Before we begin, I have read all of 4crawler's starter writeups (and found them very informative), but didn't see my issue directly addressed.

I got home around seven last night, turned it off and unloaded a few things, had some dinner, came back out to move it so the gf could get out, it cranked for a second and nothing. I suspect it's the starter, because the lights and radio still work with the key, but there's a strong drain on the battery (lights dim significantly) when I engage the starter.

The starter was installed less than 30k ago (although, unknown timeframe) and the battery was new last November. I do know that the starter was remanufactured (sticker says for Toyota). I have a starter in the '86 that I know works.

Battery tests good - 12.6v

Checked all the connections, redid the battery posts and cleaned off the contacts with some steel wool.

I swapped out the ignition switch for s and giggles. That didn't help.

I see 12.3v when the accessories are on. When the key is turned to start, there's a drop in voltage to about 10.3, but nothing else happens. I have to conclude that the starter itself is the issue, but here's the catch - I'm seeing a voltage drain, but I'm not hearing the solenoid click. Quite literally, the only sign of anything happening is the voltage drain - no clicks, no whirring, no nothing.

Next step is to pull the starter itself and tear it down. Ugh...

I was expecting to dig into this thing eventually, but not quite this soon! And I just bought her a Hi-Lift! What an ungrateful bitch!

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djrez4 · 11-02-2009, 10:22 AM

Swapped the starter and it turned right over. The replacement (out of the '86) is a made-in-Mexico starter, though, so I'll be rebuilding the original Denso, if I can, and reinstalling it.

4Crawler · 11-02-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djrez4

Before we begin, I have read all of 4crawler's starter writeups (and found them very informative), but didn't see my issue directly addressed.
...
I see 12.3v when the accessories are on. When the key is turned to start, there's a drop in voltage to about 10.3, but nothing else happens. I have to conclude that the starter itself is the issue, but here's the catch - I'm seeing a voltage drain, but I'm not hearing the solenoid click. Quite literally, the only sign of anything happening is the voltage drain - no clicks, no whirring, no nothing.!

That issue is addressed:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...shtml#EasyTest

Voltage drop and no click means that there is current flowing to the solenoid, but not enough to pull it fully in (making the click). That current times the resistance in the circuit feeding the solenoid = voltage drop.

Perhaps the replacement starter you installed pulls less current or will pull in with less current that the one you took out:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...l#OtherOptions

djrez4 · 11-02-2009, 11:03 AM

I must have missed that when I was reading over your writeup.

The starter cable had good voltage when I tested that. I didn't have any spare wire or spade connectors laying around, so I couldn't test the solenoid wire.

As for your theory of less current to close the solenoid on the replacement starter, it's entirely possible. The original starter was working just fine until Friday, leading me to believe that the problem is not a lack of current delivery, but something that changed within the starter itself.

Either way, I'll be tearing the Denso down to check the contacts and replacing them if necessary. I think a relay for the starter is also in order, if for nothing else than to relieve some of the load on the ignition switch.

Thank you for your writeup. I probably would have tossed the OE Denso without your giant, bold font telling me to rebuild it.

desertcamper67 · 11-05-2009, 08:36 AM

So did you fix it yet? And if so, what was it? I am getting a relay today and probably returning the push button switch...May I'll keep it in the spare parts box for a trail fix on sombody's Toy. It was only $5 and looks heavy duty.

djrez4 · 11-05-2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertcamper67

So did you fix it yet? And if so, what was it? I am getting a relay today and probably returning the push button switch...May I'll keep it in the spare parts box for a trail fix on sombody's Toy. It was only $5 and looks heavy duty.

I'll be working on it this weekend and I'll report back.

djrez4 · 11-09-2009, 08:31 AM

I had a few minutes last night to pull the solenoid cover. No pics, yet. Sorry.

The contacts look like they're still in great shape. There is almost no visible wear on them, whatsoever. The wires running to the contacts also look clean. There is some sticky grease on the solenoid plunger that may be causing issues.

The inside of the solenoid housing, however, looks dirty. For those of you in road-salt country, it's sort of like that white coating you get on your vehicle after driving on wet roads after a snow storm. I don't know if that's the issue, or if something else is causing the problem, but I can tell you it'll be a bitch and a half to clean it out. I imagine that a total dismantling would be necessary.

My next step will be putting it back together and getting it tested at the Advance Auto Parts down the block. Since the contacts look good, I want to see if the motor itself still works.

11-02-2009, 10:22 AM	#2 (permalink)
djrez4 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 39	Swapped the starter and it turned right over. The replacement (out of the '86) is a made-in-Mexico starter, though, so I'll be rebuilding the original Denso, if I can, and reinstalling it. __________________ '85 4runner - DD, trail rig, and expo vehicle '85 4runner - currently bricked and for sale '86 4runner - needs a tune-up and for sale '81 Centurion Signet - it's a bicycle

11-02-2009, 11:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
djrez4 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 39	I must have missed that when I was reading over your writeup. The starter cable had good voltage when I tested that. I didn't have any spare wire or spade connectors laying around, so I couldn't test the solenoid wire. As for your theory of less current to close the solenoid on the replacement starter, it's entirely possible. The original starter was working just fine until Friday, leading me to believe that the problem is not a lack of current delivery, but something that changed within the starter itself. Either way, I'll be tearing the Denso down to check the contacts and replacing them if necessary. I think a relay for the starter is also in order, if for nothing else than to relieve some of the load on the ignition switch. Thank you for your writeup. I probably would have tossed the OE Denso without your giant, bold font telling me to rebuild it. __________________ '85 4runner - DD, trail rig, and expo vehicle '85 4runner - currently bricked and for sale '86 4runner - needs a tune-up and for sale '81 Centurion Signet - it's a bicycle

11-09-2009, 08:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
djrez4 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Denver Posts: 39	I had a few minutes last night to pull the solenoid cover. No pics, yet. Sorry. The contacts look like they're still in great shape. There is almost no visible wear on them, whatsoever. The wires running to the contacts also look clean. There is some sticky grease on the solenoid plunger that may be causing issues. The inside of the solenoid housing, however, looks dirty. For those of you in road-salt country, it's sort of like that white coating you get on your vehicle after driving on wet roads after a snow storm. I don't know if that's the issue, or if something else is causing the problem, but I can tell you it'll be a bitch and a half to clean it out. I imagine that a total dismantling would be necessary. My next step will be putting it back together and getting it tested at the Advance Auto Parts down the block. Since the contacts look good, I want to see if the motor itself still works. __________________ '85 4runner - DD, trail rig, and expo vehicle '85 4runner - currently bricked and for sale '86 4runner - needs a tune-up and for sale '81 Centurion Signet - it's a bicycle

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