coloradolady

mwisham, the timing chain has two silver links and the rest are blueish. It's hard to see in the picture but he is just resting the chain on the gears until he puts the new head in and puts it all back together. The silver link is at the top of the top gear. I think he said there is a little "dot" and he has the silver link centered over the dot. The bottom silver link will be centered over the mark on the bottom gear. Then he will tuck the chain in around the guides. He will make sure to turn the thingy to get it to TDC and then secure everything in place. I think someone gave directions in a previous thread in this group. The only thing that is really weird is that there is a square thingy on a "plunger" type device towards the bottom center of the timing chain unit. The chain butts up against it and the chain rubs on it. I personally think it's stupid to have something rubbing against the chain. It's not the guides on the sides (that sounds like the title to a song!! LOL) but it's between the sides of the chain kinda in the lower middle. The old one he took out has two grooves in it where the chain had been rubbing for a long time. It just seems to conflict with the tension of the chain. When you push on the square that the chain is rubbing against, I think it appears to squirt oil. Hope I explained it pretty good.

coloradolady

He has the timing cover removed now and the guts are exposed and we can't find any pieces of the gasket. Down near the bottom was a little tiny piece and we are wondering if it could have fallen into the oil pan but not sure. He may know and you guys may all know but ole dummy here that is trying to relay all this information is stuck!! LOLOL What does "FSM" stand for? Front Sending Module? Foreign, Standard, Metric? I don't know. Quit laughing......LOLOLOL

coloradolady

Skypilot, once he starts putting it back together (timing chain and cover) AGAIN!!! LOL He has the top silver link (see picture below, it's backwards. Two very silver links and the rest are blueish colored) centered over the "dot" and the bottom silver link is centered over the mark down there. Is it possible to turn the cams/gears a full revolution and they should remain centered over the marks? Is that proof positive they are in sync with each other? He has vowed to never ever remove the timing chain cover ever again after this final setup!! LOL He wasn't too happy about having to open it all up and I insisted that while it was open, show me so I could take a picture of it to see if the blue links were right and not happily, he complied. The chain has no single blue links!! LOLOL So it's the two silver links that he has to center over the marks.

millball

There is nothing you might do short of boring the block and installing oversize pistons.

What you see is wear from long service. Your engine might still run well, IDK.

How much oil did it use?? Still have decent power before your troubles??

Even Toyotas wear out and require all the overhaul procedures that any other make does.

Hopefully the new head will get you on the road, but your engine will still be far from fresh.

mwisham

That is the chain tensioner you are talking about toward the lower center of the chain. It uses oil pressure to exert a small amount of tension to the timing chain to keep the chain taut enough to stay in place and keep the cam & crank timed properly. As long as the silver/gray links are at 6:00 and 12:00 with the number one piston at TDC when he puts it back together, you should be good to go.
FSM stands for factory service manual

coloradolady

It's hard to read but it says .012 - .020 is safe zone..........So .018 falls in the equation so I think we are safe.

millball

Piston to bore clearance is what you should be looking at.

Acceptable clearance is very much less than .012-.020 inch.

Edit--- I found the page in the Haynes manual that you reference in your photo.

You have left out a decimal place. The tolerance is not .012 - .020,
It is 1/10th that.

.0012 - .0020 Much wear, as I said.

coloradolady

Such a jerk!! I'm so sorry.....YES, YOU ARE TOTALLY RIGHT. Please forgive me. I'm sorry......Don't know what to do now. Need to just haul to salvage yard. Don't know what to do.....................

coloradolady

Ok, we called around and everyone either hangs up on us when we mention 1985 Toyota 22re engine or, they are trying to sell us a brand new engine. We already are expecting a new head and gaskets. Machine shops here take a whole day and at 100$ an hour, that won't work. Aren't there any places that have used engine blocks? I mean seriously? We have put so many parts on this that we don't need a whole lot. We don't need a timing chain or timing chain cover, we don't need a head, we don't need gaskets.............I don't know.......

millball

There is likely no utility or economy, in a 'used block' itself. Any used 22R block is 20 years old, minimum, and is probably as worn as yours, or worse. Such a used block might only be restored with the expensive machine work you can't afford. Anyway, that same work might be done on the block you already have.

Any wear in the crankshaft rod and main journals has yet to be addressed as well.

You have to face the fact that the engine in your truck is worn out, and that there are no viable cheap shortcuts available to make it strong again.

What you need is a rebuilt 'short block' to go with your new head, or if you could find one, a low miles rebuilt from a wrecked truck.

It is not wise to throw money at any halfbaked bandaid measures if you wish to have a reliable ride.

Sometimes, you just can't get there from here.

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

My engines are like that too. After so many miles wear at the top is going to be there. Also their is limited oil there, where heat and erosion is the highest. So lets just just ride the budget and not go into the engine block.

On your chain they are grey, on mine they were blue. No issue just they your brand of chain was made. What is critical is the grey link must be centered over the dot on the crank gear & cam gear. Please post picture.

Put the head on with the gasket and install the chain on the gears without the front cover. You slide the front cover in last so you are positive about mechanical timing. The head will float just enough with the tensioner to get it in.

We need this chain & head to go in smooth & simple so mechanical timing is perfect.

Did you get to see the album pictures I posted?

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

Before you put the head on check the #1 piston at TDC and the crank gear dot is at the bottom. Post pictures please.

mwisham

I would get a cylinder hone, a ball type is best, remove the pistons and rods then hone the cylinders and put new rings and rod & main bearings in your existing block. It may not be ideal, but it will prolong the life of your engine for minimal cost.

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

Nice idea; but at this point its needs to just run. So the focus is to get it positively timed correctly & documented, walk it over manually to verify mechanical timing with no interference from the valves. Then back out and get it running.

coloradolady

Ok, wanted to update you. First of all, he was ready to torch the truck and I was doing everything to save it. Now, I'm looking into how to build the perfect torching device. This is just ridiculous and I swear, I hope I never see another Toyota pickup every again in my life!! This truck is just one big mess and I don't even want to look at it.
Ok, since my last post and the bad news, we bought a head. YAY!! A new head!!! YAY now I have a mortgage and utility bills to pay!! Ok, next we had to buy a new block!! YAY!! We got a new block coming to us. YAY!! Still have bills to pay.
Ok, not this monster Toyota is going to get a new head and a new block and he can get in it and turn the key and the sorry POS will run and we will all smile and be happy!! YAY!!! NOT!!!
He took the old head out. Had disconnect everything from it. He is in the process of taking the block out.....BUT....WAIT......well, he installed an engine in my Barbie Jeep with no problem. This one weighs like as much as the whole truck plus a camper on top of it!!! He disconnected everything from the block....can you imagine some idiot putting all those bolts in it!! Several of them were next to impossible to reach up under the bell housing!! Oh, now we are just getting started and I haven't even used any dirty words yet. The block is ready to come out but, it's too heavy to life out and he has huge tires on it so now it looks like he is going to have to either use a cherry picker, which we can't pick up from a rental because it won't fit in my Barbie Jeep. We don't have trees strong enough for chains. I told him to just let it fall on the ground and when he's all done, drive over it. So he called around and no way to get a cherry picker. Ok, now he decided to take a couple days vacation added to his two days off to work on this miserable POS. YAY!! Take a couple days vac!! YAY but guess what? He has to give two weeks notice!! It's going to be arriving via FedEx in just a few days!! So yeah, he can work on it for his two days off, wait until he gets another day off, and a week later another day off...YAY!!!
So he tests the head and it won't fit down over the old block. It sticks up. NOW WHAT? Wrong head? Ohhh, bend over and I'll show you where to stick that head!! No, seems when he looked up inside there were some thingy's pressed up inside the head. The new one has them but since it hasn't been bolted to a block, they aren't pressed up inside. So now he spend 5 hours trying to get them out!! He got the out.
Ok, YAY!! We are one step closer..............but............wait........... .how do we get the old block out???? Maybe stick dynamite into one of the hole and ka-boom? This is just not working. I think the Man upstairs is trying to tell us something. Nothing is working. How do you guys do this for fun? This is NOT fun. I've made up my mind. If we ever have another vehicle that needs an engine, it goes to the landfill. Save our money, save our mind, save our stress level and save us the hassle of it all!! Here is a picture of the complete engine for my Barbie Jeep. Now tell me, can you do this with a Toyota engine? NO!!!
We need encouragemnt. We need someone to swoop down and tell us it's going to all work out, one day it will be all over and one day it will run like a top. But until then, does anyone have some dynamite? Just a little stick?

coloradolady

Oh yeah, I forgot, he got a gasket set because he will need all these gaskets for everything but guess what? No timing cover gasket in the whole set!!! He had one and traded it in (unused) for the new spark plug wires. So now, have to buy a timing cover gasket. To the gentleman who suggested this as a train wreck, I'm thinking every day you are closer and closer to the truth!!
Edit: I forgot to tell you, one of the motor mounts was broken, too!!

osv

the first time that i put in a new 22re, i had to buy the biggest cherry picker that harbor freight sells, $180 on sale, nothing else would clear the lift and tires... it really earned it's keep when i had to replace the replacement motor less than a year later :-/

whoops, that's not encouragement, lol... how about humor... decades ago a local radio station had this contest called "not sad enough", wherein people had 30 seconds to vent, via telephone over the air, things like their cars getting towed, their wives leaving, cheating spouses, etc.

i think that i'm gonna start a "not sad enough" thread out here, that only allows trainwreck stories like this, then we'll all vote on who went through the worst crap.

so far i got you beat; two complete motors, a new head, new front axle housing with longfields, etc... but your trainwreck isn't over yet :-) you can still win the contest!!

coloradolady

I hope you aren't holding up a demon pentagram, waving an evil wand or sprinkling cadaver dust from a death row murdered over us!! LOL OMG, I want you to know with all honesty, we are not trying to out do you!! I swear!! OMG if it hadn't even gotten half this far, we would have been just fine!! If we had to reinstall another engine within a short period of time, we'd have a Toyota bonfire in the front yard. We expect this engine to outlive us and we are pretty old!! LOL Thanx for a little humor tho. I think if it weren't for humor in our lives, we'd be crying our eyes out. Thanx....

coloradolady

Just to keep you all in the loop, we are just waiting for the block to get here. We have the head and everything off the old one. We have a jack under the old block and the motor mounts and all bolts have been removed so it's just balancing on the jack. We haven't figured out how to get it out of the truck yet. Does anyone have any tips or tricks for when the block arrives and we have to get the old block out and any tips and tricks on things to do before, during and after installing the new block, guts and head? We gotta get this right. We just GOTTA get it right!!!

osv

there are 10 harbor freight stores in colorado, why not just get hoist from them? http://www.harborfreight.com/storelo...ocation/map#co

or pick up a used one on craigslist.

the bare 22re block weighs 60lbs, so you could strip it down in the truck and maybe pull it out piece by piece, but how would you drop the new block in there.