85 22RE idle issue

fnrunner · 11-04-2009, 07:33 PM

Alright, I'm officially stumped...

My 85 (22RE) has been down for about a month now due to a bad idle & I can't seem to pin point the problem...so I'm seein if you guys might think of something I haven't tried yet.

First a little history before this problem started...and btw, it was runnin awesome before & after all this, of course until this started.

Fixed all the rust etc, and yeah I never unplugged the battery before welding...yea yeah, so what! And painted the whole truck.
New Doug Thorley Header - re-used O2 sensor <10k miles
New Taylor 8mm plug wires
Then got the new gears & lockers in, built a new front d-shaft, filled 'er up & took it out for a shake down run on some trails up in Peru...this thing is scary awesome on climbs/ decends. It's crazy what gears, lockers & good tires will do!!! I started home & it wants to start acting like it's dying at stop signs. I gas it & it basically comes out of it. Runs fine the rest of the way home. Next day I jump in to go wash it, idles like crap.

Pull the codes = TPS

1985Borg Warner TPS #1 = s@$t - find the main wire from battery to fuse block in eng comp. was f' d up by prev. owner. - Fixed.
Try swapping in the 2 spare ECU's I've picked up over the years. -Nadda.
Replaced EVERY vacuum line I could find.

1985 BW TPS #2 = s@$t - find all 4 TPS wires are s@$t. Twisted together & elect. taped together. I'd love to get ahold of the prev. owner at this point and strangle him w/ these f'in wires!! Crazy thing is I've driven the truck all over for the last 3 yrs like this! insane!
Checked continuity from TPS plug to ECU & voltage @ ECU - check out alright.

1988 BW TPS #3 = WORKS! sort of - well, no more code 7!!!!!!
BUT, the idle is still up/down...up/down & really low.
tried adjusting idle up. nothing.

Last thing tonight...
New Fuel Filter
New NGK plugs
New Cap n rotor...

Still nothing.....same up/down...up/down...low idle

I can try the other ECU's again or maybe try a new reman-ed one? I haven't check the coil or ignitor yet, so might do that tomorrow. I have spares of those too from the junk yard. May try swapping those too.

Oh, and the gas that came out of the filter is black...think the tank is full of crap fuel?

SO any ideas??
Just glad I only live 6 miles from the parts stores!

Thanks!

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203Cree · 11-04-2009, 07:37 PM

Black gas is bad juju.

Also you need to calibrate the TPS. That should fix your up/down idle problem, lol.

fnrunner · 11-04-2009, 07:44 PM

Yeah, I bout crapped when I saw the gas running out of the filter. So I emptied it into an empty gatoraide bottle... good gas is golden in color & this sure isn't that!!!

By calibrate you mean adjust? Yeah, did that...like 100 freakin times. Using the FSM method, Roger Brown's (4Crawler) method, also fom 4Crawler's site quoting Frankenyota's method...
I think I finally got this last one to set properly.
BUT, I'm still skeptical about not using a genuine Toyota Denso part...I may still order one & try it.

fnrunner · 11-04-2009, 07:48 PM

Oh, & I cleaned the throttle body too. WHILE THE TPS WAS OFF...

mightymouse · 11-04-2009, 07:54 PM

This might be out of the general direction your headed but food for thought. Check your vacum lines (all of them) tediously. Also the surging idle issue will point to a bubble in the coolant lines or even a faulty idle air valve. Another direction is in terms of an alternator. So check your grounds and check your connections. Just my 2 cents good luck.

fnrunner · 11-04-2009, 08:08 PM

Thanks for the posts so far.

I've looked at or replaced all the vaccum lines, but will see if I've missed any. Maybe I need to burp the coolant system...I thought I did after fixing my rear heater, but maybe I skipped it.

Idle Air Valve is below the throttle body right? Aren't these like $200?! crap...

Keep those ideas comin!

Kiroshu · 11-04-2009, 08:21 PM

See if the hose to the idle air valve is not cracked or busted. Try tapping on it and see if idle changes. Alternator was a good idea but unless its the wrong one for the truck and or the lights are on for it and hes having low electrical power issues prolly not.... Adjust TPS properly. Intake leak in main intake hose. Code 7 the only code you got? If all else fails you may have to start looking at your air flow meter. Hows the fuel system? Sea foam works good ifs its been dirty a while.... Intake manifold gasket leaks.... coolant air pockets is possbile too....

fnrunner · 11-04-2009, 09:53 PM

I replaced the alternator about a year ago, so am doubting that it's a problem.

Do these IAV's get plugged? Seems like I read while learking around that someone had to clean there's out. Isn't there a coolant line going into it?
I'll try to find that thread...I think I subscribed to it. But seems the guy said it problem went away as it warmed up.

I tried to identify any vacuum leaks with both starting fluid & propane. No change in idle. But it was surging the whole time I did this so not really sure I would notice anything.

I was considering checking the AFM too. I looked at the hose connecting it to the throttle body, maybe while I'm looking at vacuum lines again I'll look at it again too. Wish there was a way to pressurize it & do the soapy water test on it. I noticed some surface cracks in some crevices, but nothing that was all the way through. I'll try propane around it too.

Add sea foam to the fuel? Fuel system is all fairly new...new pump assembly from Toyota, had a crack in a steel line coming out of sender. New pump at same time. New filter today. I'd hate to drain the tank, but I know it was clean last time I was looking there.

Could my EGR be bad?

Fuel pressure regulator?

When I put the reman engine in with all new gaskets for the intake, etc, I had the injectors flow tested and matched. I had to replace one. All new injector seals, screens, etc...my guess/hope is they're all ok still.

203Cree · 11-05-2009, 11:39 AM

I've been thinking about your black gas problem. You didn't by chance toss in E85 on accident did you? That's about the only thing I can think of that would possibly cause the gas to go black. Something has to be eating the rubber in the system somewhere, and E85 would be a sure bet on the cause. Bad gas typically turns brown, not black.

fnrunner · 11-05-2009, 11:52 AM

today's update...
Replaced each and every vacuum line, except the one to the brake booster, it has some sort of yellow plastic check valve (maybe? - no ref to it in FSMs) in line, so I by-passed it with a new hose. And didn't replace but inspected the one coming out of the valve cover (in front of PCV) that goes to intake plenum...stupid thing goes from 3/8 @ intake, to 5/8 @ valve cover...so it stayed.
Checked AFM to intake hose, cracked in some areas but not all the way through.
Checked per FSM:
Air bypass valve - ok electrically.
Start injector timing switch - ok
Coolant temp switch - ok
cold start injector
Fixed some frayed wires to temp sending unit

Since none of this helped, still need to check:
AFM again
Ignitor
distributor - has new cap n rotor already
coil
start or ignition resistor on pass side inner fender (AL heat sink)
EGR?
EGR Modulator
Drain gas tank -replace w/ new gas. Bad part is that it's almost full! =/

More to come on saturday or sunday...
Thanks for all the reply's so far!! I know I can count on ya'll for ideas!!

fnrunner · 11-05-2009, 11:57 AM

203Cree...
Never thought of that! Not sure if that place sells E85, but it's like 30 miles away so I'm gonna have to run up there & see for sure now! Pretty sure I put 89 in tho, since that's what I always run in it.
Some of the gas in the bottle has evaporated & it almost looks like some metal particles are floating in it. I can only image what this is from...
I think I may pull the plug on the bottom of the tank & just drain everything out into a huge clear tote & see what I get.

Boy this sounds like fun!

84toyota4x4extcab · 11-17-2009, 02:41 PM

you should check your charcoal canister that could be why your gas in black.. alos the idleing problem i had that problem with mine and my o2 sensor was gone and soon after that my oil pump went

fnrunner · 11-20-2009, 08:39 AM

Ok, code 7 is gone...latest code was 11, referring to the AC switch I had jumpered prematurely I'm guessing? *I was about to start adding my on-board air stuff when this all started...this allows use of factory AC pump I'm told...*
So the code 11 is gone since I removed the jumper...

Code 1 now...ECU says all is "normal" but with an bad idle...LOL

Anyway, a friend at work told me to replace the Coolant Temp Switch located under the front of the intake near the Cold Start Injector Timing Switch (also temp sensing), since his went out & was giving him similar symptoms.
No change in idle after this either....

Leaving on vacation to Cali in 2 days so it sits for another week until I get back...

fnrunner · 11-20-2009, 08:43 AM

Something I've been thinking about...
While it's idling rough, it seems to be rich...is that just because of the idle being all over the place? Or could this be something else?
Could the timing have jumped somehow? It's not likely...it isn't belt driven so there's no chance of it jumping a tooth... I checked the distributor & it hasn't moved.

Still stumped why this was running awesome one day then the next it idles like crap...

fthertime666 · 11-20-2009, 09:05 PM

check the coolant lines in the aluminium intake, they get plugged sometimes with corrosion and cr@p, screws up the ecu engine temp, also not sure if it applies to early models but the idle adjust being too high can also cause this... brake pedal cuts fuel to a predeterminded amount blah blah blah

fthertime666 · 11-20-2009, 09:09 PM

make sure the egr wires arent grouded out or burnt too..............black gas? like black like motor oil?= bad mechanical fuel pump?

11-04-2009, 07:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
203Cree Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 42	Black gas is bad juju. Also you need to calibrate the TPS. That should fix your up/down idle problem, lol. __________________ 85 4Runner DLX. Autotragic with some tires

11-04-2009, 07:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
fnrunner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 251	Yeah, I bout crapped when I saw the gas running out of the filter. So I emptied it into an empty gatoraide bottle... good gas is golden in color & this sure isn't that!!! By calibrate you mean adjust? Yeah, did that...like 100 freakin times. Using the FSM method, Roger Brown's (4Crawler) method, also fom 4Crawler's site quoting Frankenyota's method... I think I finally got this last one to set properly. BUT, I'm still skeptical about not using a genuine Toyota Denso part...I may still order one & try it. __________________ Eric 89 'Runner SR5 - 3.0 / 5 spd / 31x10.50's / TRD Clutch / custom front & rear bumper -everything else, stock for now. Freshly Exo'd 85 'Runner SR5 - Orient reman'd 22RE w/Marlin HD clutch / Rears Up front custom pack, 63 Chevy's / Marlin's Billet 6-shooter arms & hi-steer & IFS box / Cooper 35x12.5s STT's / Custom OD green softtop...PICS

11-04-2009, 07:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
fnrunner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 251	Oh, & I cleaned the throttle body too. WHILE THE TPS WAS OFF... __________________ Eric 89 'Runner SR5 - 3.0 / 5 spd / 31x10.50's / TRD Clutch / custom front & rear bumper -everything else, stock for now. Freshly Exo'd 85 'Runner SR5 - Orient reman'd 22RE w/Marlin HD clutch / Rears Up front custom pack, 63 Chevy's / Marlin's Billet 6-shooter arms & hi-steer & IFS box / Cooper 35x12.5s STT's / Custom OD green softtop...PICS

11-04-2009, 08:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
fnrunner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 251	Thanks for the posts so far. I've looked at or replaced all the vaccum lines, but will see if I've missed any. Maybe I need to burp the coolant system...I thought I did after fixing my rear heater, but maybe I skipped it. Idle Air Valve is below the throttle body right? Aren't these like $200?! crap... Keep those ideas comin! __________________ Eric 89 'Runner SR5 - 3.0 / 5 spd / 31x10.50's / TRD Clutch / custom front & rear bumper -everything else, stock for now. Freshly Exo'd 85 'Runner SR5 - Orient reman'd 22RE w/Marlin HD clutch / Rears Up front custom pack, 63 Chevy's / Marlin's Billet 6-shooter arms & hi-steer & IFS box / Cooper 35x12.5s STT's / Custom OD green softtop...PICS

11-04-2009, 08:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
Kiroshu Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: wade, NC Posts: 1,305	See if the hose to the idle air valve is not cracked or busted. Try tapping on it and see if idle changes. Alternator was a good idea but unless its the wrong one for the truck and or the lights are on for it and hes having low electrical power issues prolly not.... Adjust TPS properly. Intake leak in main intake hose. Code 7 the only code you got? If all else fails you may have to start looking at your air flow meter. Hows the fuel system? Sea foam works good ifs its been dirty a while.... Intake manifold gasket leaks.... coolant air pockets is possbile too.... __________________ My current: 1986 Toyota 4runner SR5 EFI 4cyl 2.4L 22RE 5-Speed 242,000 Miles 95% Stock __________________ (Still working on restoring her) My old: 1988 Toyota 4runner SR5 EFI V6 3.0L 3VZ-E 5-Speed 302,000 Miles All stock (sold)______________ (Was my fastest truck i miss her...) My old: 1989 Toyota 4runner Non-SR5 EFI 4cyl 2.4L 22RE Automatic 231,000 Miles (sold)______________ (was my quietest and slowest yota.) Last edited by Kiroshu; 11-04-2009 at 08:27 PM.

11-04-2009, 07:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
mightymouse Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: st. louis Posts: 77	This might be out of the general direction your headed but food for thought. Check your vacum lines (all of them) tediously. Also the surging idle issue will point to a bubble in the coolant lines or even a faulty idle air valve. Another direction is in terms of an alternator. So check your grounds and check your connections. Just my 2 cents good luck.

11-04-2009, 09:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
fnrunner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 251	I replaced the alternator about a year ago, so am doubting that it's a problem. Do these IAV's get plugged? Seems like I read while learking around that someone had to clean there's out. Isn't there a coolant line going into it? I'll try to find that thread...I think I subscribed to it. But seems the guy said it problem went away as it warmed up. I tried to identify any vacuum leaks with both starting fluid & propane. No change in idle. But it was surging the whole time I did this so not really sure I would notice anything. I was considering checking the AFM too. I looked at the hose connecting it to the throttle body, maybe while I'm looking at vacuum lines again I'll look at it again too. Wish there was a way to pressurize it & do the soapy water test on it. I noticed some surface cracks in some crevices, but nothing that was all the way through. I'll try propane around it too. Add sea foam to the fuel? Fuel system is all fairly new...new pump assembly from Toyota, had a crack in a steel line coming out of sender. New pump at same time. New filter today. I'd hate to drain the tank, but I know it was clean last time I was looking there. Could my EGR be bad? Fuel pressure regulator? When I put the reman engine in with all new gaskets for the intake, etc, I had the injectors flow tested and matched. I had to replace one. All new injector seals, screens, etc...my guess/hope is they're all ok still. __________________ Eric 89 'Runner SR5 - 3.0 / 5 spd / 31x10.50's / TRD Clutch / custom front & rear bumper -everything else, stock for now. Freshly Exo'd 85 'Runner SR5 - Orient reman'd 22RE w/Marlin HD clutch / Rears Up front custom pack, 63 Chevy's / Marlin's Billet 6-shooter arms & hi-steer & IFS box / Cooper 35x12.5s STT's / Custom OD green softtop...PICS

11-05-2009, 11:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
203Cree Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 42	I've been thinking about your black gas problem. You didn't by chance toss in E85 on accident did you? That's about the only thing I can think of that would possibly cause the gas to go black. Something has to be eating the rubber in the system somewhere, and E85 would be a sure bet on the cause. Bad gas typically turns brown, not black. __________________ 85 4Runner DLX. Autotragic with some tires

11-05-2009, 11:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
fnrunner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 251	today's update... Replaced each and every vacuum line, except the one to the brake booster, it has some sort of yellow plastic check valve (maybe? - no ref to it in FSMs) in line, so I by-passed it with a new hose. And didn't replace but inspected the one coming out of the valve cover (in front of PCV) that goes to intake plenum...stupid thing goes from 3/8 @ intake, to 5/8 @ valve cover...so it stayed. Checked AFM to intake hose, cracked in some areas but not all the way through. Checked per FSM: Air bypass valve - ok electrically. Start injector timing switch - ok Coolant temp switch - ok cold start injector Fixed some frayed wires to temp sending unit Since none of this helped, still need to check: AFM again Ignitor distributor - has new cap n rotor already coil start or ignition resistor on pass side inner fender (AL heat sink) EGR? EGR Modulator Drain gas tank -replace w/ new gas. Bad part is that it's almost full! =/ More to come on saturday or sunday... Thanks for all the reply's so far!! I know I can count on ya'll for ideas!! __________________ Eric 89 'Runner SR5 - 3.0 / 5 spd / 31x10.50's / TRD Clutch / custom front & rear bumper -everything else, stock for now. Freshly Exo'd 85 'Runner SR5 - Orient reman'd 22RE w/Marlin HD clutch / Rears Up front custom pack, 63 Chevy's / Marlin's Billet 6-shooter arms & hi-steer & IFS box / Cooper 35x12.5s STT's / Custom OD green softtop...PICS

11-05-2009, 11:57 AM	#11 (permalink)
fnrunner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 251	203Cree... Never thought of that! Not sure if that place sells E85, but it's like 30 miles away so I'm gonna have to run up there & see for sure now! Pretty sure I put 89 in tho, since that's what I always run in it. Some of the gas in the bottle has evaporated & it almost looks like some metal particles are floating in it. I can only image what this is from... I think I may pull the plug on the bottom of the tank & just drain everything out into a huge clear tote & see what I get. Boy this sounds like fun! __________________ Eric 89 'Runner SR5 - 3.0 / 5 spd / 31x10.50's / TRD Clutch / custom front & rear bumper -everything else, stock for now. Freshly Exo'd 85 'Runner SR5 - Orient reman'd 22RE w/Marlin HD clutch / Rears Up front custom pack, 63 Chevy's / Marlin's Billet 6-shooter arms & hi-steer & IFS box / Cooper 35x12.5s STT's / Custom OD green softtop...PICS

11-17-2009, 02:41 PM	#12 (permalink)
84toyota4x4extcab Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: moncton, nb, canada Posts: 39	you should check your charcoal canister that could be why your gas in black.. alos the idleing problem i had that problem with mine and my o2 sensor was gone and soon after that my oil pump went

11-20-2009, 08:39 AM	#13 (permalink)
fnrunner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 251	Ok, code 7 is gone...latest code was 11, referring to the AC switch I had jumpered prematurely I'm guessing? I was about to start adding my on-board air stuff when this all started...this allows use of factory AC pump I'm told... So the code 11 is gone since I removed the jumper... Code 1 now...ECU says all is "normal" but with an bad idle...LOL Anyway, a friend at work told me to replace the Coolant Temp Switch located under the front of the intake near the Cold Start Injector Timing Switch (also temp sensing), since his went out & was giving him similar symptoms. No change in idle after this either.... Leaving on vacation to Cali in 2 days so it sits for another week until I get back... __________________ Eric 89 'Runner SR5 - 3.0 / 5 spd / 31x10.50's / TRD Clutch / custom front & rear bumper -everything else, stock for now. Freshly Exo'd 85 'Runner SR5 - Orient reman'd 22RE w/Marlin HD clutch / Rears Up front custom pack, 63 Chevy's / Marlin's Billet 6-shooter arms & hi-steer & IFS box / Cooper 35x12.5s STT's / Custom OD green softtop...PICS

11-20-2009, 08:43 AM	#14 (permalink)
fnrunner Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 251	Something I've been thinking about... While it's idling rough, it seems to be rich...is that just because of the idle being all over the place? Or could this be something else? Could the timing have jumped somehow? It's not likely...it isn't belt driven so there's no chance of it jumping a tooth... I checked the distributor & it hasn't moved. Still stumped why this was running awesome one day then the next it idles like crap... __________________ Eric 89 'Runner SR5 - 3.0 / 5 spd / 31x10.50's / TRD Clutch / custom front & rear bumper -everything else, stock for now. Freshly Exo'd 85 'Runner SR5 - Orient reman'd 22RE w/Marlin HD clutch / Rears Up front custom pack, 63 Chevy's / Marlin's Billet 6-shooter arms & hi-steer & IFS box / Cooper 35x12.5s STT's / Custom OD green softtop...PICS

11-20-2009, 09:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
fthertime666 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the fire center, lawton ok Posts: 216	check the coolant lines in the aluminium intake, they get plugged sometimes with corrosion and cr@p, screws up the ecu engine temp, also not sure if it applies to early models but the idle adjust being too high can also cause this... brake pedal cuts fuel to a predeterminded amount blah blah blah __________________ US ARMY 63B, 94 toy PU, bj spacers, Downey adjustable front shock mounts, lo-pro bumps, 2in lift in the rear, 2inch BL with poly mounts, POS 22re, 4.88s with rear ARB, 33x10.5 BFG MTs, Bigrocks front and rear bumpers, Siege Engineering OBA

11-20-2009, 09:09 PM	#16 (permalink)
fthertime666 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the fire center, lawton ok Posts: 216	make sure the egr wires arent grouded out or burnt too..............black gas? like black like motor oil?= bad mechanical fuel pump? __________________ US ARMY 63B, 94 toy PU, bj spacers, Downey adjustable front shock mounts, lo-pro bumps, 2in lift in the rear, 2inch BL with poly mounts, POS 22re, 4.88s with rear ARB, 33x10.5 BFG MTs, Bigrocks front and rear bumpers, Siege Engineering OBA Last edited by fthertime666; 11-20-2009 at 09:16 PM.

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