934rnr

Well Lost my job last week due to a lay off becuase these months work is slow.
I don't have alot of money for a expensive engine swap so I have made up my mind on dropping a 5mge into my truck.

The yard I frequent has a complete 86 cressida with about 150k on it I can have the whole motor and harness for $200.
They also have a 82 supra I can get the bellhousing and the clutch and slave cylinder for about $40
I plan on scamming the oil pan too and oil pickup as well off the supra.

There's the main parts of my swap.

I know I will probably need some new seals and plan on probably doing a mild rebuild on the motor.

I plan on a under $800 budget engine swap but that may change.
I am getting my taxes back and that will help alot with the finances.


BTW these are the late model specs on the 5mge:
Late 5M-GE Power Output (1984-86): 161 HP @ 5600 rpm // 169 TQ @ 4400 rpm

I could upgrade the build full rebuild the motor myself and add 1mm oversized valves and .30 over pisitons that would probably bring up the HP a bit.

However even it its stock form it should be alot better than my 90k 22r.

Radyota

5mge's are good engines, and I've seen them get 250,000 miles on them. The factory Supra brochure boasts 165 HP (1984). I've had a few Supras, overheated a couple of them accidentally, but no real damage. One thing I've noticed on blown junkyard supras and on 1 of mine was the cam seals somehow "unseat" themselves and leak oil. They can leak so much that the engine starves and usually throws a rod. When changing a timing belt, I used silicone on the outside of the new cam seals I installed, and I also used a punch and hammer to stake the aluminum around the seal at 3 or 4 points to keep the seal held in. It's worked perfectly for a few years now. Just something to keep an eye on/fix as a preventative measure.
Also, for performance engine parts for the 5mge, check out Rabidchimp.com for headers, turbo kits, intake tubes, overbored throttle bodies, etc.

Mr. Bob

Dont the 22R and the 5MGE share the same bellhousing??? may be wrong... also get the flywheel of the supra too....

934rnr

Nope you have to use the w58 bellhousing. The starter is on the opposite side on the g54 and w56 transmission bellhousing. The bolt pattern to the 5mge is also a little different than the 22r.
The flywheel I planned on getting with the w58 bellhousing sorry that was not mentioned.

934rnr

Kinda cool mod idea: 5MGTE http://geocities.com/aarongarney/5mgte.html




He didn't get bad results either.
From his site:
Before the turbo install, the car put down 129 rwhp, and 136 ft/lbs of torque. At 7psi, the car made 208 rwhp, and 232 ft/lbs of torque.


Also wheel hp is always substancially less than crank hp which is the rating most manufacturers give you when you look at engine specs.
So at the crank HP and Torque could be around 235hp and 255FT/LB's.
I think he is getting more than that he has been running about 8 psi of boost on that motor now.

He is just using a older 82 5mge stock block with lower compression and a 7mge turbo manifold with a ct26 turbo. Pretty bad ass for being a stock block with a turbo thrown on it.
I am sure the motor life is reduced substancially though.

Radyota

Actually the '82 and '83 engines were 8:1 compression so they are the ideal candidates for turbocharging. They stand up better than the 7mg-te, which also had a lot of head gasket issues. The motor life should still be decent, as long as it's maintained.

934rnr

I also read that the 5mge can handle more boost than the 7mgte because the valves are larger than the 7mgte.
So having 12 Valves over 24 valves may be a slight adavantage for boost.

Also I may have been wrong on the engine HP the chart says the 86 cressida which is the motor I am getting has 156 hp and 165ftlbs of torque it also has the 8:8-1 ratio so I assume I can still boost this motor then.

85-88 2759 156@5200 165@4400 83 85 8.8:1 US Cressida

I would love to turbo this motor I think the cost would go way up unless I got all the 7mgte turbo parts really really cheap.

So basically I could build this 2 ways

resurface the head 3 angle valve grind
redo bottom end new standard bearings
New rings and hone cylinders keep the same bore to keep the same 8.8:1 compression add a turbo with around 7 psi boost look a getting 208HP and 232lbs of tq at the wheels.
Probably a little less hp since this is a 4wd app not a supra.


Or

Bore the 5mge .030 over and put in 1MM oversized valves
Overbored throttle body high flow intake keep it N/A

Not sure on HP rating on how much this would net

Think it would be substanial and worth the extra effort?

Radyota

For turbo, might be worth using metal head gaskets and shims to lower compression, also bigger fuel injectors and a conversion wiring harness for a 7mg-te computer. For N/A you can get aftermarket cams and a ceramic header. the 5mge and 7mge/7mgte blocks are actually the same! So, you can stroke it in either case by swapping in a 7mge crank and connecting rods, but some machining of the original crank pulley is required (to fit the pulley). That will increase displacement to 3 liters, and with the 5mge head you've just built a 6mge. That engine was only available overseas (Japan), but is now being imported. I figured as long as you're tearing into the engine, it might be advantageous to swap cranks/rods (if you can find them) to increase the torque. Hope I gave you some good ideas!

NCSU-4runner

sorry to hear about the layoff, hope things work out with the 5M. My 7M is costing me an arm AND a leg but it should be a fun toy in the end

934rnr

It sounds it.
If I do a N/A build it's going to have regular head bolts.
If I decide to go the turbo route I'll probably run the metal gasket and the arp studs.

934rnr

Actaully I just started a new job yesterday more $ per hour and less BS to put up with as well.

Mr. Bob

congrats!

934rnr

Thanks.
Well I looked into N/A mods very little to be gained.
Looks like I am going the turbo route on the 5mge.
Here's a tech site on a well built 5mgte motor:

http://users.easystreet.com/koden/5mgte.htm

He's making 271.8whp (317.6bhp) and 268.2 lbft at the wheels (311.1 lbft crank) at 11PSI

Holy bejesus tha sounds really nice.

I am doing mine on the cheap though so I will be likely using a used 7mgte manifold and ct26 turbo so I will be rebuilding it and having it balanced.
So basically the same as this guys build:
http://geocities.com/aarongarney/5mgte.html
I am only looking at getting 208 wheel hp and 232 ft/lbs at 7psi boost which would be fine for me in my little truck.

FirstGenTankota

I dont really know much about these motors but it sounds like an interesting swap. The only thing is, doesn't turbo hp tend to be at much higher rpm range than n/a, you have to have enough exhaust pressure to spool the turbines. Where a stroker conversion would prolly bring your max torque and hp rpm down to a more useable range; espcially for crawling and other slower stuff. High reving turbo motors are best for high speed applications where you constantly want ultra high rpm and screaming boost pressures. l live in San diego where every one has a long travel sand car, they all have turbos becuase they really need that super high end hp for hill climbes and the sand drags. In our sport of slow crawling and typically low engine speeds we want more low end grunt.
Barring the issue of incredible weight, I think a small diesel engine would be the ultimate engine for crawlers because of their incredible low end torque. Yes diesels have turbos but they generate more exhaust pressure at lower rpms.

Or you can save your pennies and build a turbo stroker, and have low end torque and screaming hp.
Anyway, just my two cents. Good luck with swap. Make sure you write a build up thread.

Radyota

You can use a smaller turbo to move the max HP/torque lower in the powerband. Some of the 3.0 V6 guys have been talking about turbocharging the 3vze for a while now, and they agree that the power should be at the lower RPM's. That's where I learned about using a smaller turbo. After all, we're not looking for high speed power, just better low-end and highway/towing driveability.

As for diesels, Suzuki Samauri owners have been putting Volkswagen turbodiesels in their rigs using Toyota transmissions/transfer cases and an adapter kit. I think someone even put one in a Toyota truck already! They use a 1.6 or 1.8L engine and the stock higher gears (4:10 or 4:30) with 32" tires. Sounds like a good swap for an older Toyota RV!

NCSU-4runner

not at all how i view things, you could stick a lawnmower engine in a dump truck and it could climb a mountain if its geared properly, it will just take awhile. I didnt do a turbocharged engine for rock crawling, infact i will barely use the turbo at all off the pavement. The turbo is for passing goofballs that want to do 40mph on 55mph back roads. Sucks trying to do that with the stock engine on big tires.

Gear it right and it doesnt matter WHAT you are running under the hood.

FirstGenTankota

My point exactly. A turbo engine is not really suited for off roading. They're desingned for high speeds, I'm sure you can pass just about any other suv on the highway. And I do share your fustration with the people that drive back country roads like school zones, many times i wished i had the power to pass people on the grades. The thing is most first gens are willing to sacrifice on road nicities such as, ride comfort, low noise, high speed handling, and maximum speed; to build a rock ready rig.
The question is, do you build your engine to preform best on highway while driving to your wheeling places, or to preform best on while your on the trail. There's also a difference if it's a newer gen Runner or a rock ready first gen solid axel. Completly different trucks have completely different power needs.
Personally, I built my truck and am still building it, to preform off highway. Its not a jewl on road but I'm an enthusiast, I learn to deal with it.

The idea of a smaller turbine wheel and a larger compressor wheel is pretty neat. I'm in the diesel industry and people do alot of things like that to match the turbo to the power band needed.

FirstGenTankota

NCSU-4runner

IMO, any reliable engine is a good offroad engine. If i were only interested in an offroad engine i'd put in a completely rebuilt 7MGE, cheap, light weight, and will run forever. Gear it 100+:1 and its just as good as any other motor. IMO my motor does it all, same blue-print as the 22RE basically plus 2 cylinders and more performance oriented (not sure if a 22RE is single or dual cam or 2vs4 valve since ive never worked on one, 7M is dual cam 4 valve per cylinder)

dont get me wrong, diesels are cool too. I just think my motor is the best of both worlds. Its just a little pricey the way i chose to do it b/c i cant bring myself to use "average" parts. I like the nicest of everything. Hell, i spent more on my pistons than i "needed" to on my whole rebuild. I'm just a little crazy i guess.

934rnr

Yes but you can still gain low end power with a turbo before 4000 rpms.

Check out his torque curve on the turboed 5mge
http://users.easystreet.com/koden/5mgte.htm



BTW the red line is torque in ft/lbs the torque jumps at 2600 and rises fast to 3500 rpms where it peaks at 300ft/lbs.
The max torque range is sustained from 3700 to about 4700 rpms stays above 300 ft/lbs until 5000 rpms and it drops off from there gradually.

This maybe not as useful in rock crawling but I might point out some offroading areas require higher torque bands such as if you are going through a swampy area lots of mud no bottom to it.
Also if you are running TSL boggers you need wheel speed to make them work well in deep mud.