new2cruzers

Well finally dropping the money to buy a new 220v Mig. Here's a little background that's influencing my purchase and have a question to follow for my experienced welders/fabricators.

I been wheeling for about 15 years and have owned/modded CJ's, XJ's, Samurai's, Full Sized Chevy's, and a FJ40. My last CJ had full width 1-tons, so I have a little experience with welding/fabriaction. I been on here since Feb 2009 and this is my second post due to the fact that I usually find all my answers using the search botton (learned the hard way asking questions on my other builds on Pirate that you can't ask anything tech related over there without being flamed). I recently bought an 88' Std Cab, solid TX frame, fresh 22RE coverted to Weber (less then 4,000 miles on it), W56, RF1A, stock 4.10's with 33's (it sucks, searching for a least 4:88's as we speak), All Pro In-Cab Cage, for next to nothing. See below, PROJECT: Big Bag O' WTF?, coming to a build thread near you:



Plans include SAS, 63's out back, flatbed, keeping the lift ~5", and running 37's. Lots of fab work ahead, so I will get to my question.

I have always been lucky enough to use my Dad's Miller 211 for my fab work, but he's in FL now and I live in OH, so it's time to stop milking off the old man and buy a decent welder. I have a budget and am looking for a mig I can do all the fab work with but not spend $1000+ dollars. I have been looking in the 175 to 180 offerings from Hobart, Lincoln, and Miller.

Here's where I need the advise: I have heard if you use fluxcore instead of gas, you getter better penetration with a lighter welder? i.e. Miller 180 + fluxcore, less money, not as nice looking welds vs. Miller 210,220 + gas, lots more money I can put into building up the solid front axle, gears, lockers, etc. Just wondering if this is true? I am by no means a pro welder, but I'm not worried about how the welds look as long as they are strong. I have been finding good deals on these welders in the $550 to $750 range, which is about the max I can spend. Thanks in advance for the responses.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Yes. Flux core needs less umph to weld thicker metal but requires more cleanup.

:wabbit2:

new2cruzers

Thanks for the quick reply, So am I anywhere near correct in the 180 range + flux being comparable to say a 200 with gas as far as penetration? I love the old man's Miller 210 and it will weld good welds in any material I would use it for, but just don't have the bones for that pricey of a machine right now. I do want to get the max amount of welder for the money I have to spend and I know you get what you pay for. So, any recommendations on size/make for use on say welding stuff to the frame like my planned SAS, 63's, and bumper projects?

Swimmerboy2112

iTrader: (2)

I repair welders/plasma cutters for a living.

Don't waste your time with flux, you'll never get the same penetration and bead pattern as using gas.

I'd recommend getting either a Miller Millermatic 180, or Miller Millermatic 211. Stick with Miller they are the best hands down.

Head into your local AirGas or GTS store and talk to the salesmen. But try not to get overwhelmed by them.

ThatGuy1295

Good old Lincoln arc for thick stuff, personal preference. But wire feed, id go flux, messy as mentioned above.
Gas is nice I've used it a few times, I have a dual mig gas or flux, maybe its just me but the gas seems harder to dial in. But WAAAY! cleaner. But flux is very versitial.

new2cruzers

Again thanks for advise from the experienced, Yeah I said my Dad had a 210, but I mispoke, I remembered his is the 211. Awesome welder with gas, great penetration on heavy plate used on the farm for repairs, would love to have one, but if I remember, the old man paided over $1000 for that one, which is about $250 above my budget. I've been looking at the Lincoln SP180 (~$730) and the Millermatic 180 can go as low as ~$790 sometimes, but that's about my max. I'll keep my eye out on deals for the Miller. I have more experience with Millers and we have never had any problems with either the 110 or 220v models we have at my Dad's shop.

konah

I would go with the gas shield. Clean, pretty and if your worried about penetration up the voltage and make multiple passes. Also grind out the root bead from the back (where possible) and run a pass there.
I have a little Lincoln 110v from Lowes and run fluxcore in it. It's not great, but it does what it's supposed to. Also it's easy to find power points for it. My father in law bought a nice Miller 220v with a small gas tank. I prefer using his. At least I get to teach him with his machine and do his farm repairs...hmmm.

new2cruzers

Yeah, I have experience with both the 110 and 220v models of the Millermatics using gas and flux. I'm stressing penetration as most of the welds on this project will be structural as part of the suspension and my life will be depending on the welds, SAS components and leaf/shackle mounts for the 63's. Driving down the road at 65mph is no time to find out you have sh*& welds holding your axles and 37" tires under your truck. I've heard too many people say, "my 110v welder will get the job done", only to see their shackle/leaf/track bar/shock mounts tear off when the suspension binds on the trail. I know this happens sometimes even to the best welds, but most times it's only under extreme conditions. I've wheeled all over IN, KY, and now OH and have seen some scary fabrication. I'd rather spend the extra money on a machine that will lay quality welds the first time. I know from using my Dad's Miller that you definately get what you pay for.

Swimmerboy2112

iTrader: (2)

I'm telling you right now, the Millermatic is THE BEST unit for you in your price range. You will not be disappointed with it. Not to mention Miller has THE BEST warranty/warranty people/department you will ever deal with.

To me that goes to show that they really back their products and have lots of faith in them.



The Power Of Blue!

new2cruzers

Thanks for the advise, I think I'm going for the Millermatic 180. Average is around $800 for one right now, but I'm collecting parts for my build so I think I'll shop around until I can find one for ~$780 and will be happy.

Swimmerboy2112

iTrader: (2)

Excellent choice, one of my personal favorite machines!

cman1

iTrader: (1)

ive had my 110 millermatic 135 for about 14 years and it has never let me down...but i too wish it was a 220 unit.x2 on miller!!!!!

new2cruzers

BONUS: Just looked at Miller's website and it says, "Welds thickest material in its class, with the highest output in its class! Can weld up to 5/16 inch in a single pass" VERY NICE, I'm sold, thanks for the help.

cman1

iTrader: (1)

also,i would not think twice about buying a used miller unit,craigslist etc,save yourself some coin,theres alot of guys who wanna be a welder hehe...BUT.

new2cruzers

No, buying new, this is an investment for me. I just found one new online for $790 at Baker's Welding Supply.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

I can see no reason to buy a new welder if you only do it as a hobby.

Have you looked at the Hobart Line If I was going to buy a new small unit that is what I would buy for myself.

Then buying used equipment can suck never the right time or place it seems .

I have not run self shielded wire for 25 years and at that time it did not give me a good impression.

If your looking to run hotter run straight CO2 bought at the right place far cheaper then the blended gases.

Just because Miller has great support in this area does not mean it will be as good in your area .

Happy welding in any case!!

new2cruzers

Well, right now I have no welder. This would be used for several projects, on my farm, and would need to be big enough to do major fabrication work. I learned on a Lincoln stick, but given the choice I would rather have a Mig for the versatility. Lighter 110v machines won't cut it for what I plan to do with this rig. Even the best 110 units, spent hours using an older Miller 130, won't weld heavy steel like a leaf spring mount to a frame with any strength. I've seen many try with lot's of failures, especially some of the home built 3/4 link suspension setups. If you have ever seen one of those grenade on the trail it's a nightmare (picture coil springs shooting out). I'm trying to get the most mig welder for my budget that will allow me to do everything I need to do with the confidence of a good weld.

Here's my last XJ I did with a hybrid 6.5" lift:



On this one, I had to weld a bracket to extend the track bar on the front axle, skimped and used the light Miller 130, and it cut loose when my tire wedge in a rock at Black Mountain and torn a lot of stuff up. Just saying, welds matter, it was an expensive fix back when I was in the military and had no budget.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

I have a Millermatic 175 MIG. It does a good job. I think when I bought it, it was about 40% less cost than the 210.

new2cruzers

Yeah, I looked at both the 175 and 180 from Miller, seems to be about $100 difference, but I seem to be leaning towards the 180 because it has the auto-set feature. This seems to be a good feature for guys like me who are not professional welders.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

And your point was??

If you can stick weld you are ahead of most!